Threaded Inserts for bottle stoppers/openers

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Sammy-2016

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Oct 27, 2016
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Location
San Antonio, Texas, USA
Hello Turners :)
I have been making a few bottle stoppers & openers. I chose to use threaded inserts. I have not been successful seating the insert perpendicular to the face no matter how I insert it into the wood. Please see the picture of my inserts.
How do you experts achieve that. once the insert starts cutting the threads to wonders to one side and I end up with a wobbly item. I drill the hole and insert the threaded insert on the lathe.
I would appreciate some advice,.
Thank you
Sammy
 

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Actually yes I am using a forstner bit, and I tried a few sizes. The outside threads on the insert are so large that as soon it starts biting it goes one way or the other. I am wondering if I should only use the threaded inserts that you push in instead of threading in.
I am also using the proper tool to insert these.
Thanks for the reply
 
Have you tried a 33/64 drill as the package specifies? On the inserts I use, there is a short flat (non-threaded) edge that helps center the insert when it is being threaded in. The manufacturer also indicates that the hole size can be increased by 1/64 so you could try a 17/32 drill (especially if you are installing it in a very hard wood). Try adding some wax a lubricant to help them cut threads when you are installing.

You can make an alignment / drive tool that is used with a collet chuck or Jacobs chuck in your tailstock to install them right after drilling the hole on your lathe. Make the tool by cutting the head off of a 3/8-16 bolt. Thread two nuts onto the bolt followed by the insert so that the bolt almost goes completely through the insert (maximize thread engagement). Then spin the two nuts down on the top of the insert to jam them together to make a locking nut. Put the smooth into the collet or Jacobs chuck and then use the tailstock to align the insert while turning the headstock by hand. After installation, use a wrench to loosen the nuts and unthread the tool.

Regards,
Dave

PS I have only used this method to install inserts into wood blanks and have not tried it with plastics, but I think it should work the same way.
 
If you have a 3/8-16 morse taper mandrel for turning the stoppers, you could probably even use it in your tailstock to install the insert while still holding the stopper in the headstock after drilling. It should work the same way as the tool I talked about in my previous post.

I would use a nylon or HDPE washer between the insert and the mandrel to help keep them from seizing together which could make them harder to get apart after the insert has been screwed in.

Dave
 
I screw them onto the stopper part and epoxy them in the hole assembled. That way the depth is correct and the lower stopper part is level against the blank. Never had a problem unscrewing them after the epoxy cures so I can turn them.
 
To Join the Thread; Get a bolt and 2 nuts that match the insert internal thread. The bolt must be only partly threaded and have a smooth portion under the bolt head. Cut off the Bolt head. Thread the two nuts on the bolt and then put the insert onto the bolt. FORCEFULLY tighten the two nuts above the insert. You can put thin CA on the nuts. Now you have a tool for the insert.

To use the tool, drill the hole for the insert. Now thread the insert and put the bolt into the chuck. Turn the chuck by hand to thread the insert into the chuck. Remove the chuck.
 
Like Rick said, don't worry about getting the insert straight. Once it's inserted into the blank, and the insert is screwed onto the stopper mandrel, the axis of the hole in the insert is the turning axis, and unless is misaligned or you are doing some kind of multi-axis thing, the turning will be symmetrical about that axis.

The problem that is solved by using a metal insert is that if the blank is wood, the grain usually is oriented top-to-bottom (ie, spindle orientation). That means that when you drill a hole in the bottom of the blank and thread it to receive the mandrel, the threads are perpendicular to grain and that makes them weaker than if they were parallel to grain. A metal insert solves this by making the threads stronger that the turning material itself.

The approach I take is sort of halfway between a simple threaded hole in the bottom of the blank, and a metal insert. I drill 5/16" holes in small scraps of wood - into face grain. Then, when I run a tap through those holes, the resulting threads are parallel to the grain of the insert wood. I then mount each scrap on my stopper mandrel and turn them down to form 5/8" cylinders that I can glue into a 5/8" hole in the bottom of the stopper blank. Once the glue cures, that leaves a 3/8" 16tpi threaded hole with the threads parallel to grain - stronger than a simple tapped hole in the blank, and much less expensive than a metal insert.

Metal inserts are fine, but my experience is that the type with a knurled outer surface (show in the picture that Bobby posted) are probably better than then more common type with a coarse male thread. The variety with a male thread are intended to go into face grain, and those threads just don't work well in end grain. I occasionally make canes, and sometimes I use a metal insert to allow a cane to be broken down into shorter lengths for travel. I tried standard male threaded inserts, but found that rather than screwing into end grain, they tend to split the grain. Knurled inserts combined with a two-part epoxy works better.
 
Actually yes I am using a forstner bit, and I tried a few sizes. The outside threads on the insert are so large that as soon it starts biting it goes one way or the other. I am wondering if I should only use the threaded inserts that you push in instead of threading in.
I am also using the proper tool to insert these.
Thanks for the reply
I use the brass push ins from stainless bottle stoppers. A 1/2" forstner bit will get you what your looking for. I also use Epoxy to set them
 
I've used the EZ Lock threaded inserts, Niles threaded inserts and a few others over the years for various projects.

Honestly, I've not thought to use the EZ Lock inserts on stoppers and have not a darn idea why... There are several ways to insert them square and several people have provided their method so I'm not going to add anything. Having said that, the benefit many of the inserts have over the EZ Locks is they have a base/bottom which means you don't have to worry about epoxy getting on the bottom of the threads.

For the Niles inserts (my current insert of choice) or the knurled inserts that Bobby (bsshog40) showed, I do have a slightly different process than others have outlined. I had the good fortune to talk with Carl Jacobson earlier this year and he told me how he sets in his inserts. I've adopted it and it works well for me. He has a video out that shows most of the process but he's changed it now slightly from the video.

Place your bottle stopper blank in the chuck on your lathe.
Put a forstner bit in your jacobs chuck that is larger than the section of the stopper that will contact the blank. It doesn't have to be massively larger, just slightly. I usually go no more than 1/8".
Drill into the blank just enough to create a flat surface on the blank. Again, it doesn't have to be far but enough to know you've established the surface.
Change drill bits to whatever bit you're using to create a pilot hole and drill to correct depth (I have gone to a single style insert and have dedicated a drill bit that's marked with tape to correct depth)
Remove the drill bit and put a cone center (I have a 60 degree center) in the jacobs chuck
Put epoxy on the threaded insert and use the 60 degree center to push it into the hole in the blank.

That's the process for a single stopper, gee what do you do for multiple you ask?
Place blank into the 4 jaw chuck
I have a mark from a sharpie on top of one of my chuck jaws, I place a corresponding mark on the blank or on painters tape on the blank with sharpie mark
Use the forstner bit on all the blanks
Change to drill bit
Using marks on the chuck and blank, line them back up in the jaws and drill the holes
Again, using marks to line everything back up, put the blanks into the chuck
Change to cone center and epoxy them in.

I'm certain that this process is not absolutely and positively true and square and someone will call me out but I will say that since I've swapped to this process I've never had a bottle stopper not sit square to the body of the blank. I've made quite a few this spring/summer.

Sorry if my reply is long winded. I had an early call today and I'm a couple of cups of coffee in!
 
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