Thoughts or opinions on this please

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SDB777

SDB777

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Cabot, Arkansas USA
Been meaning to 'up my game' somewhat for the stuff being offered on my website. Considering the quantities of knife scales or even some types of timber in the pen blanks, I have started searching for a LARGE stabilizing chamber. Getting 50 to 70 pen blanks done at a time would be really great, but spending less then the price of a new car would be better...and this might cover both requirements.



Was wondering if anyone here has used(or even seen) this item >>>>> KIT <<<<<

Thoughts about the pump?
Thoughts about the chamber?
Thoughts about anything?




Scott (I hate shopping) B
 
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I did some quick searching and you can buy the parts for about $270 + shipping so it would say the deal is not bad to have someone else do the labor. My biggest concern w/ a pot this size is the size. Unless you are planning on some high quantity stabilizing it may be a bit much because of the amount of resin needed cover the blanks. That said you can find/make something to go inside like a tupperware bowl to stabilize smaller amounts.
 
I have a 5gal chamber just like that. I love mine. Cleanup is SUPER EASY. Just spray it out. Perfect for dying bc it won't mess with the chamber at all. Yes it will take a lot of resin to fill it up over the wood, but since the resin is reusable it's not that big of a deal. Unless you plan on doing a lot of dying then you'd have to buy a large quantity of resin just to have enough in each color.

The pump not so much. You'd be better off with a 2 stage rotary vane pump.

For the price I wouldn't get this particular kit. Maybe just the chamber and search around for a better pump. With some digging I'm sure you can find a better one.

FWIW I do have one of Curtis' chambers also. I love it just as much. I got the bigger chamber bc I wanted to stabilize some bowl blanks.

If you want to ask me anything about it Scott shoot me a PM with your # and a good time to call.
 
Justturnin said:
I did some quick searching and you can buy the parts for about $270 + shipping so it would say the deal is not bad to have someone else do the labor. My biggest concern w/ a pot this size is the size. Unless you are planning on some high quantity stabilizing it may be a bit much because of the amount of resin needed cover the blanks. That said you can find/make something to go inside like a tupperware bowl to stabilize smaller amounts.
Click to expand...


I was thinking the same for the smaller stabilizing needs...just put something smaller inside and take care not to 'boil' everything out when first applying a vacuum. But you can't stabilize anything really big in a little chamber....


Brooks803 said:
I have a 5gal chamber just like that. I love mine. Cleanup is SUPER EASY. Just spray it out. Perfect for dying bc it won't mess with the chamber at all. Yes it will take a lot of resin to fill it up over the wood, but since the resin is reusable it's not that big of a deal. Unless you plan on doing a lot of dying then you'd have to buy a large quantity of resin just to have enough in each color.

The pump not so much. You'd be better off with a 2 stage rotary vane pump.

For the price I wouldn't get this particular kit. Maybe just the chamber and search around for a better pump. With some digging I'm sure you can find a better one.

FWIW I do have one of Curtis' chambers also. I love it just as much. I got the bigger chamber bc I wanted to stabilize some bowl blanks.

If you want to ask me anything about it Scott shoot me a PM with your # and a good time to call.
Click to expand...


Yes, the quantities of resin are going to need to be 'excessive'. But if I decide to go this route, it'll be just one of the many things that gets 'excessive' around here. I am tired of burning wood that is super punky....wild spalt lines in the punky wood should be used for something other then turning my burn barrel red!

I considered Curtis' chamber, but the size is too small for stabilizing say 30 knife blocks at a time. If I was to only need to do one block a month to make a knife, then his chamber would be more then ideal. He has a great product....that is for certain!!!

The pump is probably the hard part to chose....I read through the information Curtis shared about pumps, even watched the video of the side-by-side comparison. I think it more important to get a pump that will last through repeated use. I'd rather not have one that is 'misting oil vapor' into the garage though.....the search continues.


May take you up on the phone conversation.....thanks!






Scott (I hate indecision) B
 
Scott, have you discovered/considered the Hold Fast system? Hold Fast Stabilization System

I was looking at it, but the cost and capacity was more than what I needed. I'm a noob at all of this, but my firewood pile has some good stuff in it that I'd like to use for turning. It looks to me that that it might satisfy what you need for capacity. If I understand correctly, which I may not because I'm pneumatically challenged, the vacuum generator hooks to an air compressor to generate the vacuum. If you have an air compressor, then that should solve your "oil mist" concern.

I don't know whether you can fit the 30 knife blocks in the larger pot, but the specs say it will handle 50 to 70 pen blanks.

I chose to go with one of Curtis' JuiceProof chambers, because it fit my needs. I thought about building my own container out of an aluminum stock pot and some thick acrylic for a lid, but decided purchasing a system was a better option.

Good luck!
 
Brian G said:
Scott, have you discovered/considered the Hold Fast system? Hold Fast Stabilization System

I was looking at it, but the cost and capacity was more than what I needed. I'm a noob at all of this, but my firewood pile has some good stuff in it that I'd like to use for turning. It looks to me that that it might satisfy what you need for capacity. If I understand correctly, which I may not because I'm pneumatically challenged, the vacuum generator hooks to an air compressor to generate the vacuum. If you have an air compressor, then that should solve your "oil mist" concern.

I don't know whether you can fit the 30 knife blocks in the larger pot, but the specs say it will handle 50 to 70 pen blanks.

I chose to go with one of Curtis' JuiceProof chambers, because it fit my needs. I thought about building my own container out of an aluminum stock pot and some thick acrylic for a lid, but decided purchasing a system was a better option.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


I do have a 30Gal Crapsman air compressor, and I think the CFM rating on it would be enough to run the generator of the 'kit' you linked to, but I'm not sure I'd want my air compressor running that hard, dunno if she would hold up(she runs hot just going from 0 to 120PSI).

Knife blocks measure 2x2x6 inches(at least the size I'm cutting - most folks only go 1-5/8x2x5-1/2 inches. Simple math calls this 120 pen blanks....give or take?

Already cracked a piece of acrylic on a pot.....going to purchase something proven to work and be done with it! So it goes without saying, we think alike!

edicehouse said:
Right now HF has the 3CFM 2 stage for $150 on sale. So the 20% coupon should work on that also....
Click to expand...


Does anyone have any experience using the one mentioned here? Will it draw enough vacuum? It is listed as 25micron(what is that in 'inHg')?





Scott (more thoughts welcome) B
 
Lots of stainless steel containers on Ebay. From asparagus pots to huge stock pots. After that it's pretty common materials. Smaller diameter pots will present less issues with the plexi lids.
 
The problem with vacuum generators is they typically do not pull enough vacuum. The one mentioned in this thread only pulls 25" Hg or so. That is only a 83.5% vacuum. For the money, you can do MUCH better at a 99% vacuum with a rotary vane pump.

The other issue with vacuum generators, as you guesses, is the load they put on your compressor. I have been using a vacuum generator on a vacuum hold down fixture I made for my CNC. With a 60 gallon, two stage Ingersol Rand compressor, it runs it pretty hard.
 
MesquiteMan said:
SDB777 said:
Does anyone have any experience using the one mentioned here? Will it draw enough vacuum? It is listed as 25micron(what is that in 'inHg')?





Scott (more thoughts welcome) B
Click to expand...

25 microns is a 99.9967% vacuum which is 29.919" Hg at sea level.
Click to expand...



HF also has a smaller unit that is rated 75micron/10pascal. I guess I need to go find a 'calculator' to figure out all the differences in definitions. Thanks Curtis!!!!




Scott (can't have a 'standard' for anything....figures) B
 
Scott,

Microns is the standard measurement of vacuum for HVAC technicians, thus the reason you see it used for rotary vane pumps since that is their primary application. It is also a much finer scale of measuring vacuum. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 760,000 microns vs. 29.92" Hg. The lower the micron rating on a vacuum pump, the better and closer to a perfect vacuum. If you really want to do the calculations to convert microns to inHg, subtract your micron rating of the pump from 760,000. Then divide this number by 760,000 to get a percentage. Now multiply 29.92 by that percentage to get the equivalent.

Example...50 microns. 760,000-50=759,950. 759,950/760000=.99993 or 99.993%. Now take 29.92x.99993=29.918. So a 50 micron vacuum is a 29.918 inHg vacuum.

That said, I would not worry about doing the calculation. If you see a pump with less than 100 microns, it will do what you want it to do. Remember that you are never going to get the full level of vacuum indicated by the pump manufacturer in your chamber due to a number of reasons including material porosity and the fact that even acrylic is porous and allows some microscopic air to pass through it at deep vacuum. Of course, unless you have a micron gauge to measure it, you will now know any difference since a typical vacuum gauge reads inHg and does not have a fine enough scale to go out to 3 or 4 decimals! A 500 micron vacuum is 29.904 inHg and you can not see the difference between 29.904 and 29.92 on a gauge! That and the fact that typical vacuum gauges are not super accurate anyway!

SDB777 said:
MesquiteMan said:
SDB777 said:
Does anyone have any experience using the one mentioned here? Will it draw enough vacuum? It is listed as 25micron(what is that in 'inHg')?





Scott (more thoughts welcome) B
Click to expand...

25 microns is a 99.9967% vacuum which is 29.919" Hg at sea level.
Click to expand...



HF also has a smaller unit that is rated 75micron/10pascal. I guess I need to go find a 'calculator' to figure out all the differences in definitions. Thanks Curtis!!!!




Scott (can't have a 'standard' for anything....figures) B
Click to expand...
 
Oh yeah, I would rather see you buy a Robinair 15310 instead of either of the HF pumps. That is the smaller one you saw in my video. It is better made than the HF pumps and puts out a lot less oil mist. It is only single stage but will pull just as good of a vacuum on the gauge as my two stage JB pump will. I still prefer JB since they are workhorses but for around $115 or so, the 15310 is a great pump and is what I use when I do shows since it is lighter and smaller and is hard to beat. Still made in Asia and is considered a disposable pump since it can't be rebuilt but at 1/2 the price, not a bad way to go.
 
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I have a Wood-n-Whimsee's hold fast system, there you get two different size pots......check em out

Brian G said:
Scott, have you discovered/considered the Hold Fast system? Hold Fast Stabilization System

I was looking at it, but the cost and capacity was more than what I needed. I'm a noob at all of this, but my firewood pile has some good stuff in it that I'd like to use for turning. It looks to me that that it might satisfy what you need for capacity. If I understand correctly, which I may not because I'm pneumatically challenged, the vacuum generator hooks to an air compressor to generate the vacuum. If you have an air compressor, then that should solve your "oil mist" concern.

I don't know whether you can fit the 30 knife blocks in the larger pot, but the specs say it will handle 50 to 70 pen blanks.

I chose to go with one of Curtis' JuiceProof chambers, because it fit my needs. I thought about building my own container out of an aluminum stock pot and some thick acrylic for a lid, but decided purchasing a system was a better option.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
gimpy said:
I have a Wood-n-Whimsee's hold fast system, there you get two different size pots......check em out

Brian G said:
Scott, have you discovered/considered the Hold Fast system? Hold Fast Stabilization System

I was looking at it, but the cost and capacity was more than what I needed. I'm a noob at all of this, but my firewood pile has some good stuff in it that I'd like to use for turning. It looks to me that that it might satisfy what you need for capacity. If I understand correctly, which I may not because I'm pneumatically challenged, the vacuum generator hooks to an air compressor to generate the vacuum. If you have an air compressor, then that should solve your "oil mist" concern.

I don't know whether you can fit the 30 knife blocks in the larger pot, but the specs say it will handle 50 to 70 pen blanks.

I chose to go with one of Curtis' JuiceProof chambers, because it fit my needs. I thought about building my own container out of an aluminum stock pot and some thick acrylic for a lid, but decided purchasing a system was a better option.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


The Hold Fast thing utilizies an air compressor to create the vacuum....I do not[/] want to do that.

I actually ordered a 5 gallon sized chamber and a 3CFM vacuum pump. I can always use a small container inside to do the 'little' projects.







Now the hard part....choosing a 'stabilizing compound/resin' to use.......of course keeping costs under control will be most important!





Scott (I can start sucking stuff) B
 
Hi Scott,

The system you shown us first is identical to what I built for myself, last June 2013 and I can tell you from experience a few things that may help you to avoid wasting money.

The very first thing is the cooking pot, mine is a 16lt capacity, you obviously need one slightly bigger, I can do about 90 ben blanks on mine. The pot should be a good, solid stainless steel pot, heavy wall is essential for bigger sizes. Is important that the handles are soldered on and not riveted, these will leak sooner or later.

For the lid, go for nothing under a 1" clear acrylic/Perspex and about 2" wider than the pot diameter.

For a gasket, get the best round flat gasket the money can buy.

For vacuum gouges, get the water filled ones, they better

Brass fittings are OK, such as are the clear hoses, you can buy special hoses as I did but the fittings for those threads are very expensive and in reality, you don't need high pressure hoses, at all.

Make sure you adapt a reservoir filter between the chamber and the pump, any accidental sucking of juice, will go to that filter instead of the pump.

For the pump, a 2 stage one is better, budget about and at least $250 or so for the best pump you can buy with that money, any oil mist they produce is easily and cheaply resolved with the system I invented for mine, shown on one of my questions games, and I think also on my thread about stabilization system.

Make also sure you buy at least a 1 gallon of vacuum pump oil, you will need to replace the oils more often that what you think but, you should get about 30 hours of pump work before the oil gets dirty and you will need to check for water in the pump every week or so. The signs that is water in there is when you see oil level higher than when you started with, never overfill it, keep halfway between the min. and max., the water will be at the bottom of the sump so, and after you start the pump (water has time to set on the bottom, you simply open the bleeding screw below the oil level window, do it gently until some water star to run out, if is not water in there, oil will start coming out so you close that screw up again and you are ready to go.

There other small details that you should know but, for what you need to know now, you need at least $500.00 to get the vacuum system the size you need, before you scratch your head trying to work out what stabilising solution, you will need to get...!:eek::wink:

The system works and works well, I have put about 30 gallons or so (Curtis, help me here, how many..??) well doesn't really matter but, I had plenty of time to work out what I should have done from the start so, yes, I wasted some money and wasted lots of my time, to get it right, at the moment is the best I ever got it...!

Let me know if you need any more info...!

PS: I agree, there has to be a better way than waste beautiful, rotten wood sorry, I meant spalted punky wood, I had that problem, not anymore...!

Good luck,
Cheers
George
 
George, I would not normally share customer data but since you did ask...17 gallons since the first of the year. Not sure about last year.
 
MesquiteMan said:
George, I would not normally share customer data but since you did ask...17 gallons since the first of the year. Not sure about last year.
Click to expand...

Thanks Curtis...!

Wow, that many...??? I would say that for 2012 it should be at least an identical number. I could go and look at all the paper work, I could even go and count all the empty plastic drums that I have store in the paddock, hold on....! that wouldn't work, I used an "uncertain" number of those containers as molds for some of my castings so, my use estimation was considerably close, for those that may think I'm pulling their leg, never know...!

I did say the other day, that some people may think that I'm drinking this stuff, huh...??? not really, my wood is, here in the land of OZ, the damn woods are very thirsty, I wish they would drink beer instead, a lot, lot cheaper...!:eek::wink::biggrin:

PS: Could you tell me (send me an email/PM), what have you organise so far about that medium size drum, as it needs to follow my request, you you recall it...!

Cheers
George
 
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