"I have come to a resolution myself as I hope every good citizen will, never again to purchase any article of foreign manufacture which can be had of American make, be the difference of price what it may." --Thomas Jefferson to B. S. Barton, 1815.
Thought for 9/11/08
- Thread starter DCBluesman
- Start date
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Hayseedboy
Member
Not many that think like O'l Tom anymore....
DocStram
Member
They need to hang that sign over the entrance to Wally World.
Can you believe most toothpaste is made in China? I might as well start buying it at HF.
gerryr
Member
Unfortunately a lot of things are not even made in the US, like cameras and lenses and most electronics. This Saturday I'm driving about 150 miles one way, just so I can test ride a couple of road bikes made in the US: Cannondale and Felt. I admit that I will also be trying three brands not made in the US: Bianchi, KHS and Orbea. I hope to return with a new road bike.
TellicoTurning
Member
Not to slam Wally World, but back in the '80's when their advertising campaign was "We buy American", I worked for a customs' brokerage company and one of our biggest accounts was Wal-Mart. We cleared 40' containers of materials being imported from all over the world.
MikefrMd
Member
Aren't most pen kits made overseas?
Just curious....I would like to make my pens using US parts if possible.
Just curious....I would like to make my pens using US parts if possible.
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I'm suprised, pleasantly, but still very suprised to see that quote from nearly 200 years ago and by Thomas Jefferson no less. The idea has been around and been endorsed for a long time by some very powerful people and clear thinkers, but it just doesn't seem to work out.
In history, long ago and recently as well, protectionist trading policies have generally not worked out. Still, one has to wonder if we couldn't benefit from a little protectionism now; not that I'm ready and willing to pay more for my toothpaste, tools and trinkets.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Yes, it poses a very complicated question of economics.
When nearly all clothes were made in the "Garment districts" of the USA, clothing prices were much higher than they are today (in inflation adjusted dollars). Yet the unions representing the "garment workers" claimed they were UNDERpaid. So the jobs moved, offshore.
Clothing costs went down. So, if clothing takes up LESS of your budget, you have more "disposable" income, allowing you to buy "non-necessities" that might be made in USA. AND the "standard of living" in the manufacturing countries went up, by taking these "substandard" jobs. So, who gained??? Everyone except the American garment workers who needed to be re-educated and find different jobs. The American economy has always, historically, been able to relocate "buggy whip" jobs.
Today, because so many industries are facing competition from overseas, the impact is GREAT. So, for a decade or so, we MAY suffer.
ON THE OTHER HAND, manufacturing companies are looking for American alternatives right now. You don't hear about it, but occasionally a boat sinks. The merchandise on that ship was going to be part of an American assembly line. When the ship went down, so did the assembly line, for WEEKS!! NOW, American industry likes "Just in time" inventory. Parts sitting on the shelf cost money --- but assembly line "downtime" costs lots more. AND, when your only source is offshore and "stuff happens", you need to airfreight the replacements. Stay tuned, don't count out American manufacturing just yet!!
FWIW
When nearly all clothes were made in the "Garment districts" of the USA, clothing prices were much higher than they are today (in inflation adjusted dollars). Yet the unions representing the "garment workers" claimed they were UNDERpaid. So the jobs moved, offshore.
Clothing costs went down. So, if clothing takes up LESS of your budget, you have more "disposable" income, allowing you to buy "non-necessities" that might be made in USA. AND the "standard of living" in the manufacturing countries went up, by taking these "substandard" jobs. So, who gained??? Everyone except the American garment workers who needed to be re-educated and find different jobs. The American economy has always, historically, been able to relocate "buggy whip" jobs.
Today, because so many industries are facing competition from overseas, the impact is GREAT. So, for a decade or so, we MAY suffer.
ON THE OTHER HAND, manufacturing companies are looking for American alternatives right now. You don't hear about it, but occasionally a boat sinks. The merchandise on that ship was going to be part of an American assembly line. When the ship went down, so did the assembly line, for WEEKS!! NOW, American industry likes "Just in time" inventory. Parts sitting on the shelf cost money --- but assembly line "downtime" costs lots more. AND, when your only source is offshore and "stuff happens", you need to airfreight the replacements. Stay tuned, don't count out American manufacturing just yet!!
FWIW
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The landscape keeps changing. I've been involved in closing down a good number of US factories and sending the work to China. In the 1980s the China factories were a collection of work benches and armies of young women workers. We shipped equipment to China and taught them how to use it; setting them up in business. Most of the work was hand work, purchase quantities were small and labor cost was most of the total cost. Now the Chinese factories are modern with improved machinery and buildings. Now the factory owners want high minimums and they talk about ammortizing equipment and minimizing set up costs. They talk about costly new labor laws and the need for continuing to improve their automation.
In the early 1990s I worked on a project where we shipped a bunch of heavy old industrial sewing machines to a Chinese factory. The machines replaced hand stitching and foot petal operated machines. Now that same factory uses the latest in computer driven plasma cutters and highly automated sewing machines.
With the current landscape it isn't a matter of our having superior technology that we can export to suplement the savings that can be had with low labor costs. The superior technology has often been developed in China and we go there to buy products that can't be made as efficiently or as low cost as anywhere else. We will probably be able to chase low labor costs and imported technology to several more countries around the world, but eventually the worldwide prices will reach parity and US companies will again develop more advanced technology and again become the low cost suppliers...at least I hope they will.
In the early 1990s I worked on a project where we shipped a bunch of heavy old industrial sewing machines to a Chinese factory. The machines replaced hand stitching and foot petal operated machines. Now that same factory uses the latest in computer driven plasma cutters and highly automated sewing machines.
With the current landscape it isn't a matter of our having superior technology that we can export to suplement the savings that can be had with low labor costs. The superior technology has often been developed in China and we go there to buy products that can't be made as efficiently or as low cost as anywhere else. We will probably be able to chase low labor costs and imported technology to several more countries around the world, but eventually the worldwide prices will reach parity and US companies will again develop more advanced technology and again become the low cost suppliers...at least I hope they will.
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Fred
Member
It just burns my butt to go to Walmart and see these face covered things walking around like they own the place.
So what do I do ... I run my mouth and tell everyone of them exactly what I think of them. I have been asked to leave the store several times, but I refuse since the store can not deny me access to my prescriptions.
They usually help me get my "stuff" quickly and then I leave ... still running my mouth all the way to the door. I feel better since I don't keep my frustrations inside and driving my blood pressure sky high.
Let's just see what happens after the elections and hope like crazy that experience wins out.
[I bet Jeff is watchng this thread really close to see when it get to the point of being 'political'.]
So what do I do ... I run my mouth and tell everyone of them exactly what I think of them. I have been asked to leave the store several times, but I refuse since the store can not deny me access to my prescriptions.
They usually help me get my "stuff" quickly and then I leave ... still running my mouth all the way to the door. I feel better since I don't keep my frustrations inside and driving my blood pressure sky high.
Let's just see what happens after the elections and hope like crazy that experience wins out.
[I bet Jeff is watchng this thread really close to see when it get to the point of being 'political'.]
ldb2000
Member
We have no one to blame but ourselves . For years we have demanded our "right"? for higher pay and less working hours and the labor unions kept striking and forcing the manufactures to pay more and get less productivity for that higher pay , and we as consumers took that higher pay and bought the lowest price goods that we could . Just look at the auto industry , the workers took the higher and higher pay and bought lower priced Japanese cars with it .
We have inflated ourselves out of manufacturing jobs and into a service economy and we still want higher pay and lower prices , well you can't have your cake and eat it too .
You can't blame other countries for our own arrogance .
Mr Jefferson was talking about buying American regardless of price , out of pride for our country , but we have forgotten about that and went looking for the pot of gold at the best price .
We have inflated ourselves out of manufacturing jobs and into a service economy and we still want higher pay and lower prices , well you can't have your cake and eat it too .
You can't blame other countries for our own arrogance .
Mr Jefferson was talking about buying American regardless of price , out of pride for our country , but we have forgotten about that and went looking for the pot of gold at the best price .