Teaching our kids today

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Dave_M

Dave_M

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Joined
Dec 10, 2005
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Location
Clovis, CA, USA.
My 14 year old son Jonathan and I worked on a pen together this past weekend. It's not his first time working in the garage with me but it was his first time with hands on the power tools. He's already had a good dose of shop safety from hanging out with me in the garage over time. Jonathan is quite proud of the work he did on the pen so he took it to school to show his friends and his shop teacher.

His shop teacher and I have talked a few times and he has expressed to me how frustrating it is to teach a shop class these days. He said most kids today come in with no clue as to how to use a hammer or screwdriver let alone power tools. When they started the school year, the teacher asked the kids to identify some basic shop tools to help gauge their experience with tools. He said Jonathan was the only kid who knew all the tools by a long shot. That seemed very odd to me. It's not like I have a large shop and I am the tool master. Jonathan's tool knowledge, in my opinion, is just average at best for any 14 year old.

So, I'm curious. Is this apparent lack of tool / shop knowledge by kids today a result of dads being so busy (or absent all togther) that families farm out any household maintenance work so the kids are not being exposed? Are dads just not engaged with their kids enough to work side by side with their kids teaching them? Is making and/or maintaining our own stuff becoming a lost art in today's drive-thru disposable culture?

Anyone else experiencing this situation? I'd like to hear your take on the situation?

Dave
 
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Lanman said:
? Is making and/or maintaining our own stuff becoming a lost art in today's drive-thru disposable culture?
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it there. I was lucky enough to have a dad that showed me lots of stuff and to form an attitude of "if you don't know how to do something, just start doing it and figure it out as you go."

I have friends who just don't have a clue how to do things and they are too afraid to try and do it themselves. So in my experience, I think your statement is right on.
 
That's an interesting observation. My son is 36 (I'm almost 70) and has a fair working knowledge of tools and household maintenance from his youth, but not sure if I taught him or not. When he was a teenager, I would attempt any household repair I thought I could do, but not necessarily any kind of a skilled handyman. He would watch or help some, but not always. I do know that as he was growing up, as a single father working, keeping house and doing what I needed to do, I didn't have near enough time to spend with him. I did make sure I was at his school functions, swim meets, scout meetings, etc when he was participating.
I learned what little I know from watching my dad, but not being taught by him... he had no patience as a teacher and as long as I stayed out of his way, I could watch. Most of my skills, limited as they are, I've taught myself.
 
Certainly a nice looking pen...!

And about that pic...??? that is a clear with good detail pic, the sort of detail/quality that I would like to get from my close up pics so, what camera did you use...????

PS: Good to know you are giving some "good" interests options to your 14 year old son, it will be a lot safer and rewarding for everyone to know that he is in your workshop using your lathe and other tools then, out there, among the wrong company doing drugs, smoking, and God know what else...!

Cheers
George
 
Tools

The kids today have so much available that handicrafts seem to fall by the wayside.
I grew up surrounded by people that were skilled to a degree in many crafts because they had to do for themselves because of economics. We had one Radio, no TV, no phone till I was 14, no car, and an occasion movie. We had to find our entertainment where available and made do with materials we could find laying around. And we had shop classes in school.
 
Yes, yes and yes. I don't let my son play with the lathe (yet). He is 9 so he has some time. He does have his own set of tools. Hammer, screwdriver, level, (I took the knife), etc. He helps me with jobs around the house and enjoys it. It slows things down sometimes, but I can't stop him from trying to learn and help me.
I believe you are correct in that some kids have absentee parents. That may hurt them in this department. Not saying mom's or dad's don't do it, but a single parent of either sex, is hard pressed for time, let alone teaching a child to hammer in a nail.

Some kids don't have time for the handy-man kind of stuff. They are busy from morning til night with school, homework, after school activities and so on.

Today's world is built around success. Most people classify that (for children) as doing well in school, college, etc. That doesn't leave time to learn how to hang a picture, fix a sagging door or learn to turn wood.

Some kids do get that exposure. I did growing up. My Grand Father was a draftsman, carpenter and ran his own sharpening business. I had tons of exposure to tools, machines and sharp items. He learned it all in school. My school taught me to weld, forge, and limited woodworking. I don't know if they even have that in schools today. Hopefully some still do.

Enjoy the time with your son. I hope to teach both my son and my daughter how to fix stuff, work with tools and maintain the machinery.

My sister is totally opposite. She doesn't have that exposure. She bought her first house and doesn't know how to do anything to it. She prefers to pay someone else to do it for her. That's just her lifestyle I suppose.
 
There is too much available to kids today in terms of video games, TV, computers etc. and they spend more time doing that compared to hands on helping around the house. How many people here that have kids in the age range of 8 - 16 actually have assigned chores to their kids that would be considered physical labor and by this I don't mean cleaning their room or dusting or vacuuming. I mean hands on like things were before video games and computers 20 year or more ago. This goes along with the same ideas as above about a disposable world and hiring out any work that needs doing. This would never have been done 25 years ago as everybody did everything themselves to save a few pennies. At least around where I was they did.
 
When I was growing up if something around the house or yard or on the farm broke, Dad said come here we will fix it. No problems or whining I just thought that is the way it was. I am 56 and don't have any kids but it seems most of my friends either go get a new one or call the repair man. I don't know too many people that will or even attemt to fix anything anymore. I am lucky I think because I like to know how something works and about the only I can figure it out is to take it apart and put it back together again.

George
 
I was blessed to be allowed to make plenty of wood shavings and mistakes growing up. I remeber using boxes of nails on projects, my dad did not mind until he would go out to do a project and realize that we needed more nails. My Dad is a mechanic by day but he is a jack of all trades. I have had the pleasure of helping him by getting in the way and asking questions when I was younger, and to this day I do the same thing. I helped him replumb our house, electrical, woodwooking and basic car repairs. Many parents aren't in the mix. I used to work with kids prior to opening two businesses. If something got broke or my coworkers could not figure out something they would call on me to do it. 9 times out of 10 I could fix it.

I graduated in 2008, I took wood shop for three years, many of the kids in there knew only the most basic tools, like hammers and screwdrivers. I was one of the few people that took the class seriously. I knew what the majority of tools were, mainly because I had used them or ran across them.
 
My kids have chores. But you're right it's stuff like clean their room, wash the windows, feed the animals, dust the living room, vacuum the carpets....

Hard Labor, that's what they need... :wink:
 
My Dad was a shop teacher for over 30 years. Taught me to weld when I was 12 and by then I could run any tool he had at home or in his shop at school.

I have two sons (22 and 19). When they were growing up they had their own tools and knew which tools they could touch and which they needed supervision to use.

I've recently made a new friend who owns a hot-rod shop. He builds them up from rusted hulks to magazine cover ready 'rods for guys that have too much money and no time so they buy them.

A few weekends ago, the boys were home from spring break and went over to help him get an engine mounted in a rat rod.

Last Sunday, I was over at his shop helping him clean up and tinker about when out of the blue he mentions: "Your boys know their way around a shop pretty well, know what tools to use and how".

It made me SO PROUD to hear that. I called them up that evening and relayed the message. I know my sons won't hire someone to do a simple repair or do their brakes, etc. Sure it slowed me down when they were little, but it was worth it.

What's wrong with today's kids: WE the adults / parents / grandparents / next door neighbor don't spend time with them.

No kidding - last night I was turning in my shop (garage door was up) when I heard "what ya doing" come from the door. There stood one of the neighborhood boys who had been walking down the street and saw the lathe running and stopped by.

He's coming by this weekend to get a lesson on turning.

He has no dad at home, no tools, only TV, video games, and a hard working mom.

Time for me to step up (I already called his Mom and have permission to work with him). He's 12. I'm excited.
 
thats great martin, i myself didn't have a dad growing up. if it weren't for an uncle teaching me about tools, i might be one of those people that call a repair man for every little job.
 
I grew up helping and watching my Dad, grandfather and Mother fix everything around the house. Both of my girls have their own set of tools and know how to use them. My oldest daughter and I work on her car and my youngest daughter has made pens with me in the garage. I repair most of the things around our house, yard and cars and they have watched and helped all the time they were able.
They do household chores, but there is no hard labor around to do. The youngest also goes to school, plays sports and has some time off. My oldest works and helps around the house when she is around.
I think that we have become a throw away culture and so most kids today don't get the chance to see anyone fix anything. If something breaks, people just go buy another. At our house I take it apart and, if possible, fix it. All of my friends know that they can bring their things over and I will fix them. Beside woodworking and auto mechanics, my girls have watched me do upholstery for years.
We are cheating the kids of today by not supporting vocational education, shop classes and the chance to learn these kind of skills. We should all we can to support kids learning these skills by volunteering or just by showing the neighborhood kids how to do it. I have helped many of the young boys on my street work on their cars and they always come over to ask questions when they need help.
 
I was lucky. My father was a millwright and maintenance mechanic who enjoyed showing us how to fix things. (He also taught us some pretty flowery language, too).

This was a man who could fix ANYTHING. I once saw him repair a starter for a '69 Fury III using hand tools and pull tab from a beer can (back when they actually had pull tabs). If it weren't for him, my first car (POS, all I could afford) wouldn't have run for a week. Needless to say, I was under-impressed with MacGyver.

Growing up, I compared my abilities to his, and often thought, "Damn, I suck at fixing things". When I got out on my own I realized that I knew more about maintenance than 90% of my friends. Plumbing problems? Sure, I can fix it. Need a new clutch? Bring it over and bring some beer. Need a deck/shed built? Name the weekend.

He also managed to teach me much more than being able to repair things. He instilled in me a hard work ethic. He taught me to have respect and compassion for others. Many a time he was late getting home from work because he was working on someone's car in the parking lot.

This man worked at the same job for over 25 years and never missed a day. When he passed away, there was hardly anyone from that job who realized what his first name was. Everyone just called him "Mr. Thomas". (true story: My father first name started with an 'M' and always signed things 'M. Thomas Jr.', and a new employee once asked "What does the 'M' stand for?" An old engineer looked at him said, "That stands for 'MISTER'. And don't forget it.")

He was also a no-nonsense type of father. Once, an impudent little 12-year old (yours truly) asked him if he could get an earring (the fad at that time). My father, who was not the least bit violent and never whipped us (he left that to mom), looked at me and said, "Son. If you need another hole in your head, I'LL put it there."

You know what? I believed him!

Ya gotta love a Pop like that.
 
The lack of any vocational education is really disturbing to me. Most schools I have encountered have little or none.

Most people would rather pay someone to do what they could have learned in high school. Paying someone to cut their grass and wash there car is just weird to me. Unless you are handicapped or elderly you should be able to do those simple tasks your self.

I was lucky to have a plethora of Uncles, grandfathers, a godfather and a father to watch and learn. Not necessarily help, but watch and learn at the very least.

Both of my grandfathers were farmers and therefor out of necessity some of the most resourceful people I ever met. I watch one repair and hover hall his warn out '68 Ford SuperCab pickup with a totaled Chevy. My other grandfather seemed to be able to fix and make anything work on the farm.

My Godfather is still always impressing me with his thought process. He will dismantle almost anything short of a nuclear reactor to fix it. Almost every time what ever was broken is working now. In the few years I lived with my godparents while in college, I learned how to do with my hands previously unheard of abilities with repairs and general whatevers.

My stepfather never showed me much. He certainly had a lot of hand tools for me to figure out how they worked and what they worked on. He did teach me what it meant to have a good firm handshake. I still do not understand why grown men have delicate handshakes. That really skeeves me out.

My folks split when I was a kid, but every time my dad had us around he did what he could to "let us help". That got me started and I have never really stopped. His time was limited on the few weeks a year and random weekends we had, but he made every bit of count. Respect for others is probably one of the most influential attributes I picked up from my father.

What made me the most proud was one day out of the blue, my father told me he was truly proud of the man I had grown up to be. He said he tried to help with that, but thought he may have failed. That was my proudest moment in my short life so far.
 
I may be out of line here, but as a former woodshop teacher and now school counselor, let me throw this out there...Aren't the kids taking shop for a reason? Are they not taking the class to learn how to use these tools? Whether it is hand tools or power tools, should not the shop teacher be ready and more than willing to teach these skills? If he is getting frustrated about having to teach, well, I will reserve the rest of my contribution.
I too had no dad growing up and if it wasn't for my high school wwodshop teacher and his dedication to his students, I am not sure where I would be. In fact, MY high school counselor suggested to me to join the Army. Wehn I metioned this to Mr. Barrett, he and my basketball coach brought me to a college, we toured the Industrial Arts Department, and I enrolled soon there after.
 
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Dave it's great that you can spend time with your son--enjoy it--the time really flies by. I have 4 boys and a girl-all grown in there 30's & 40's each one (including the girl) knows alot about tools and cars. We never had much money to spare so it was a way of life to fix or repair something and they all helped and learned. Then one day it was like they all seemed to leave (school and other things) time really flies from about age 13 to 18.
It seems like people today don't mind paying to have a lot of things done for them-that they could probably do-if they took the time. I know a lot are single parents and working their tails off. I worked 60-70 hrs a week on average when the kids were home, but always found the time to spend with them.
 
As I'm still attending high school (year 10) the past 2 years I have done manual arts. Each semester you have a new group of kids and each of them can have varying levels of knowledge about tools and what you do (usually from not knowing what they are doing or like me who are just annoyed at what the others don't know). The trouble is in my class of about 30 students the teacher can't always get around to you so quite often I have to help the others because they don't understand.

As I've done manual arts I have topped the class and year level means that I took out the award for the subject and to a certain that degree annoys the boys as a girl is better than them.

I started turning at school then I told my dad who got me interested in pen turning. I've always enjoyed helping my dad with odd jobs around the house when I have the time. Sometimes I just watch and observe because he doesn't want me in the way.

Only recently has my father let me have use of the drill press and band saw on my own.

Between homework, violin practise and helping my parents with my brother who is disabled. I might get the chance to turn maybe 1 pen a week.
 
I love when my youngest daughter wants to help in the workshop, she picks things up quickly and is willing to learn new stuff, and like me she gets frustrated when something goes wrong.

My next door neighbour recently bought a bicycle to help him keep fit, his chain came off the the front chain ring and although he is 40 years old he had no idea how to fix it. You guessed it, my 13 year old daughter went round and put the chain back on for him, how embarrassing is that?
 
My dad pretty much turned us kids loose in the workshop. Could use anything but the table saw. I have scares to prove it, but back than scares were something to be proud of.

Kids now days have other things we didn't have, with all this electronic game stuff. That is what my grand kids are interested in. Just a new time. I would not trade them lives. I think I lived in the best of times.

I will say when they visit my house we work in the shop and they enjoy it. They just don't enjoy it on the same level I do.
 
Having been a Machine Tool instructor, I was surprised by the lack of ambition,of the younger students. Our school also supports Vocational Rehab for unemployed and you could tell right away which ones wanted a job or which ones were there just for the check.
About half of the younger students, the ones just out of school or the Co-Op students which were Seniors and Juniors in High school who attended either 2 or three hours a day seemed to care less, out of an average of 24 enrollments perhaps 8 or 9 would have the ambition to actually challenge them selves and do the best work they could. The others were there to avoid having to enter the workforce until they figured out how to beat the system, or until Mom or Dad said get your butt out and get a job,, Then they would come back saying I wish I'd paid more attention, I realize that education in this country is falling behind, I also believe it's a direct connection to the mandated structure in education.
I remember kids not passing and being held back until they were at an education level that would warrant being promoted to the next grade. That can't happen any more thanks to no child left behind, also I think kids need to develop imagination, instead of having everything graphically fed to them through a game console or dare I say it the internet.
My dad ran a Locksmith and Lawn Mower shop, I was very fortunate in learning things relating to close tolerance and things relating to basic electrical circuits and internal combustion engines.
When he was about 14, I helped my son buy 30 or 40 junk bicycles which he (with some help) built 10 or 15 bikes he sold and was able to make some summer cash, which helped buy him his first car, by this time he had learned about tools and torches, and we kept his car running until he smashed it up.
Now he can repair any piece of equipment in his plant from automated bottle filling machines to the conveyors and stacking machines, if he needs a part they can't get quickly he makes one that will suffice until a new one can be delivered. This is from a kid that was always getting crap in school for "daydreaming" and not reaching his full potential. Just exactly where do new ideas come from. (how about DAY DREAMING and having IMAGINATION) so lets cut out more art and music in school and eliminate all chance of kids naturally developing these new concepts, lets just keep teaching education through Wrote Memory, we don't need critical thinking. We don't need to stimulate creative imaginations. We just need Mathematicians, Scientists and Engineers that go strictly by the book so we can stagnate a little further.
JMHO
 
Great post.. I have two boys 12 & 15 that are interested in turning now that they have seen the results of what they can produce. I have always included them in projects even though it usually means it will take quite a bit longer - just had my boys build a shed with me - they even built the trusses and glued/screwed the plates to hold them together - boy was I proud. Tons of shiners and missed nails in the sole plates (fun to look at now) but they had a blast and they still want to build everything now. We are going to build a cherry computer desk this summer with the 12 year old --the oldest just wants to turn pens and bowls with me - I am honored :biggrin: This also helps my plith with my wife when I go shopping for new tools, blanks etc..

I found it interesting about the "why" kids are not as involved. I do see this and see how amazed my boys friends are when they see the results of decks, sheds and other projects around the house, not to mention the automotive work we do. I also take some of them out in the northern tier of Minnesota (No civilization adn a bunch of Indian Pictographs, the kids adjust to no electronics (GPS and beacon are it) and within a day, they forget about them and enjoy fishing and scenery - quite amazing

I am an I.T. guy (love the electronics but also love the craftsmanship of hand work - picked it up from Dad and Father inlaw) so I do not do carpentry or automtive for a living but am darn glad I can do it (And recognize when I cannot). Wifes friends also say they are suprised with all the work we do instead of farming it out (I do that also when time is an issue) I hear they are jealous :cool:
 
It is a real problem. My 16 year old nephew worked for me last summer. I told him to go to the truck and get a ratchet for me. He looked at me with a dumb look and asked what a ratchet was! Then, another time, I told him to go to the truck and bring me the square green colored plastic case with the circular saw inside. He came back with a green square box but it was my cordless impact driver! I asked him if that was a saw and he honestly had no idea!

From my standpoint in the construction business, this is really sad. Try to give a kid a summer job and they do not even have the very basic knowledge necessary. If no kids are learning this stuff, what is the future of the construction industry once the older guys retire or die off?
 
I have been teaching for 17 years and have seen the lack of motivation increase throughout the years. I have asked army recruiters and college professors about the changes they have seen in high school graduates. They both seemed to agree that today's youth expect everything, and work for nothing. I have student's come to class unprepared everyday, not even bringing a pencil to write with, and then look at me to provide for them. Many never learned to read a ruler, and at this stage in their life they are way behind in what we consider basic skills. :frown:

No Child Left Behind does exactly that, socially promote them. The buzzword in education it RTI (response to intervention). When students do not learn subject matter, the teacher provides alternative assessments to help them pass.

I applaud everyone of you helping to educate your children with the basic skills that seem to have been lost on a generation that has been raised to depend on technology to do everything for them.

C. Webb
 
MesquiteMan said:
It is a real problem. My 16 year old nephew worked for me last summer. I told him to go to the truck and get a ratchet for me. He looked at me with a dumb look and asked what a ratchet was! Then, another time, I told him to go to the truck and bring me the square green colored plastic case with the circular saw inside. He came back with a green square box but it was my cordless impact driver! I asked him if that was a saw and he honestly had no idea!

From my standpoint in the construction business, this is really sad. Try to give a kid a summer job and they do not even have the very basic knowledge necessary. If no kids are learning this stuff, what is the future of the construction industry once the older guys retire or die off?
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I have a chance to help a 13 or 14 year old biy that has come by my shop once a week and ask if i could teach him stuff about wood turning and wood work, The problem for me is Insurance, I told him to bring his mom or dad by and we would discuss the possibility, I did just file for an LLC but we all know how easy t is to get hurt, But How in the hell is a kid supposed to learn any thing if he can't get a part time summer job, I'm actually big on safety issues I just don't always practice what I preach, but this young man seems to really have the desire to learn, I can also teach him about Machine tools like lathes, milling machines and surface grinders, IF I can get his Aunt who is his guardian to sign a waver freeing me from indemnity in case the boy gets injured. Our Legal system seems to be doing every thing it can to make life difficult for young and very old people. This boy says he's taken shop in school and done some wood working projects in the Boy Scouts, I truly hope I can arrange something because he seems so motivated.
 
I am on this site for one reason. My son came home from school one day and had turned a pen in his wood shop class. He was so excited and soon turned another one. He wanted to do more but his teacher wouldn't let him, he had to pick another project. So 3 weeks ago we started turning pens ourselves at home. He knows most of the basic type tools but he (and me) now have a new love for making pens.
 
Not out of line at all Jim. It just struck me odd that, not just one or two but many of the kids, don't have a basic understanding of basic hand tools. Perhaps my view is a bit skewed since I grew up on a farm in an agriculture rich area. I was driving cotton pickers, swathers, & hay bailers when I was 14. I can't imagine letting one of my kids near anything like that at that age. Different times for sure.

Everyone has frustrations with their job so I'm not going to judge him for that. He's doing a job that I could never do and he does a good job with my son so I respect him for that.



jimm1 said:
I may be out of line here, but as a former woodshop teacher and now school counselor, let me throw this out there...Aren't the kids taking shop for a reason? Are they not taking the class to learn how to use these tools? Whether it is hand tools or power tools, should not the shop teacher be ready and more than willing to teach these skills? If he is getting frustrated about having to teach, well, I will reserve the rest of my contribution.
I too had no dad growing up and if it wasn't for my high school wwodshop teacher and his dedication to his students, I am not sure where I would be. In fact, MY high school counselor suggested to me to join the Army. Wehn I metioned this to Mr. Barrett, he and my basketball coach brought me to a college, we toured the Industrial Arts Department, and I enrolled soon there after.
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