Supplies mini-rant...

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monkeynutz

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Don't you just hate it when you need a very few things, and you can't find one source that has them all?? :mad:

I need a couple single-pen acrylic stands, a few sheets of Tyvek price tags, and a few gold/brass buttons for pen stands... Only a few dollars worth of stuff, but I gotta buy them in three different places (and pay three different shipping charges). I sure do wish a couple of the full-service suppliers really were exactly that. :frown:
 
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I had the same problem just yesterday. Wanted to order all from one supplier but he didn't carry the blanks I needed or the matching pencil set. I had to order from a different supplier who refuses to use USPS so it costs more and takes longer to ship. The thing that really sucks is that I need these done asap so I can get them laser engraved before Christmas but I don't think that is happening now. I just wish customer wouldn't wait till the last minute to order stuff for Christmas.
 
Yeah, you think that's bad try living in Canada, the way some refuse to ship to us you'd think we were....well you get fill in the blanks:mad: and then whenever we do order Stateside our crap dollar gives us fits and then of course there's duty tacked on orders over a $100 bucks and it goes on and on........:beat-up:
 
monkeynutz said:
Don't you just hate it when you need a very few things, and you can't find one source that has them all?? :mad:

I need a couple single-pen acrylic stands, a few sheets of Tyvek price tags, and a few gold/brass buttons for pen stands... Only a few dollars worth of stuff, but I gotta buy them in three different places (and pay three different shipping charges). I sure do wish a couple of the full-service suppliers really were exactly that. :frown:
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This is a problem?
No, it is called free enterprise. Every business carries and sells what works best for them. Some are able to offer what others can't because they have developed their own sources. That is a competitive edge that brings customers back.
If they all were cookie-cutter alike there would be no variety or competition.
You are complaining? I don't understand. I cheer American free enterprise and our good fortune to have so many wonderful suppliers with a seemingly infinite variety of goods to sell for our avocation.
Pay attention to the plight of our members from Canada, Japan, U.K. and other countries. They pay a lot more for most items than we do and, in many cases, tremendously higher prices.
You're complaining? It couldn't get much better. You should cheer and give thanks that you are in America and have such wonderful advantages.
 
I agree with Frank. I don't know what your rant is about. Not everyone carries everything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the price tags you refer to actually a jewelry supply item?

I guess I'm also a poor penmaker because I don't carry every pen style in every plating in every wood and acrylic.

I consider it my responsibility to keep my supplies in stock and plan my ordering accordingly.
 
Enuf said.
 

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Where do you get the brass buttons? I don't think I've heard of them. As for the pen stands and the Price tags, If you are thinking of the tags I am. You will always have to order those separately. Both are offered by members of this group not suppliers.
But yes I agree it stinks when you have to order every item you need from a different supplier. I do it all the time.
 
Cut me some slack, guys. Look at who is successful in your precious free enterprise... the companies who sell what people want to buy, that's who. Why would anybody not want to carry what people are buying? This isn't about people's "right" of free enterprise. Sell what you want or don't sell what you want, but understand that it could send customers elsewhere. Some folks feel it's worthwhile to sell Tyvek tags, some sell single-pen stands, and some sell pen stand buttons, but nobody sells them all. My main rant is that I need about 8 bucks worth of merchandise, and have to go to 3 different places to get them, and pay about $20 in shipping fees. If that doesn't bother you, then maybe you got more time and money than I do. And I have shown no insensitivity to people in other countries, so please don't put those words in my mouth.
 
Seems as though you're suggesting something akin to WalMart for penmaking supplies. They could stock everything, buy in horrendous quantities, and sell for less. Of course, they would be able to demand that their vendors make the kits to THEIR SPECS, not what they produce on a normal basis. They would also make the market unprofitable for their competition, thereby driving many of the other suppliers out of business.......IS THAT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT?
As for me, I think I'll just continue to buy my stuff from "mom and pop", thank you!!!!
 
monkeynutz said:
Cut me some slack, guys. Look at who is successful in your precious free enterprise... the companies who sell what people want to buy, that's who. Why would anybody not want to carry what people are buying? This isn't about people's "right" of free enterprise. Sell what you want or don't sell what you want, but understand that it could send customers elsewhere. Some folks feel it's worthwhile to sell Tyvek tags, some sell single-pen stands, and some sell pen stand buttons, but nobody sells them all. My main rant is that I need about 8 bucks worth of merchandise, and have to go to 3 different places to get them, and pay about $20 in shipping fees. If that doesn't bother you, then maybe you got more time and money than I do. And I have shown no insensitivity to people in other countries, so please don't put those words in my mouth.
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I guess you are right. You should start a business that sells everything.
BTW, you are griping about us having the best of everything. That is insensitivity to others. Of course, you don't understand that. Sad.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
This is a problem?
No, it is called free enterprise. Every business carries and sells what works best for them. Some are able to offer what others can't because they have developed their own sources. That is a competitive edge that brings customers back.
If they all were cookie-cutter alike there would be no variety or competition.
You are complaining? I don't understand. I cheer American free enterprise and our good fortune to have so many wonderful suppliers with a seemingly infinite variety of goods to sell for our avocation.
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First, free enterprise does not exist. It's a concept that has no practical application in real life. Business cannot be given unbridled power to regulate itself because ultimately it WILL abuse that power. Government can't be given unbridled power to regulate business either because it also will abuse that power. There is a balance between the two. Second, who cares what works best for the business if that DOESN'T WORK BEST FOR THE CUSTOMER!!!! If you want to bring customers back, give them what they want, not what you want.

Rifleman1776 said:
Pay attention to the plight of our members from Canada, Japan, U.K. and other countries. They pay a lot more for most items than we do and, in many cases, tremendously higher prices.
You're complaining? It couldn't get much better. You should cheer and give thanks that you are in America and have such wonderful advantages.
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Canada, Japan and the UK have better social programs and higher paying jobs than we do. The cost of living is higher, but so are wages.


Monkeynutz, in that situation, I usually just see what I can find locally that will work. I believe a couple members here sell single pen acrylic stands.
 
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monkeynutz said:
Don't you just hate it when you need a very few things, and you can't find one source that has them all?? :mad:

I need a couple single-pen acrylic stands, a few sheets of Tyvek price tags, and a few gold/brass buttons for pen stands... Only a few dollars worth of stuff, but I gotta buy them in three different places (and pay three different shipping charges). I sure do wish a couple of the full-service suppliers really were exactly that. :frown:
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Just a thought but it would be nice if we could purchase items like this through some sort of IAP Co-Op, I think the 'smocks' were supposed to be kept on hand for future sales?:wink:
 
Hey Rich, i know how you feel about being able to get everything in one place so i don't see why everyone is trying to make such a big deal about the situation. I guess most would prefer to pay shipping from three or four places. I think that was the point that you were trying to get at. (Correct me if i'm wrong) One would think that if a company was in a specialized type of business such as pen making that they would have the things needed to keep in stock.
 
devowoodworking said:
Just a thought but it would be nice if we could purchase items like this through some sort of IAP Co-Op, I think the 'smocks' were supposed to be kept on hand for future sales?:wink:
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The idea of a CO-OP was kicked around a while back and eventually kicked out because of the initial cash out lay. And, some thought that it was terrible that the items would cost more than actual cost of the item plus shipping (hey, somebody has to lay out the initial cash investment and shouldn't they be entitled to a profit in order to maybe supply more items?). Another problem with a CO-OP is finding a central place to store all the items and someone to volunteer their time to do all this.
In actuality, two of the items mentioned are supplied by IAP members, but the fact remains that they are two different members.
In reality, IMO, no one will be able to stock everything a penturner needs under one roof. And even if they did, some one would want something they did not carry.
 
The problem that I run in is when I need to place a big order from a reseller and that reseller is out of stock of one or two items, then I have to go to either a different reseller or back to the original company. Sometimes I wonder if I would be better off to get everything from the parent company rather than the reseller in the first place. But I do enjoy the better prices from the resellers so I'm stuck ordering from more then one place. It is different when you can just drive to different stores locally but when each place online is charging $5 min shipping and you only need one $2 part that the other guy is out of stock of it sucks.
 
I brought up the Idea of a CO-OP, and am still kicking it around. But sadly it still would not address this issue, in fact it would make it worse because as I see the co-op actually working means a different person handles each different item.
this is a bit of a two sided issue though. you can buy all your kits finishes etc from CSUSA, and while your at it get one of there pen mills for $35.00 or whatever it is. or you can drop me a PM and get a pen mill set for $15.00. Basically who cares if it is another shipping charge i there. The problem is that people tend to forget that the other item is so much cheaper and start seeing it as the extra shipping they have to pay. Memories are short but a dollar is always a dollar.
 
monkeynutz said:
Don't you just hate it when you need a very few things, and you can't find one source that has them all?? :mad:

I need a couple single-pen acrylic stands, a few sheets of Tyvek price tags, and a few gold/brass buttons for pen stands... Only a few dollars worth of stuff, but I gotta buy them in three different places (and pay three different shipping charges). I sure do wish a couple of the full-service suppliers really were exactly that. :frown:
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Yep.. know the feeling.. I was wanting a few teachers pens for my daughters teachers, but the place in Canada where I ordered the mandrel from, penblanks dont carry them.. Other option was order a mandrel from woodenwhimsies and get the pens then, but besides shipping, a low dollar value and customs fees, it wasnt worth it :(
 
Along those same lines there is something else that bugs me. The occasion rises for me when I only need one or two small items that only cost a couple of bucks. For many vendors, that is going to cost me a minimum shipping charge of $6.95!!

The most extreme example of this was a time when I needed a replacement point for the stock live center (a $1.68 item) and they wanted to charge me their standard shipping charge of $19.95!!! WOW!! :eek::eek::eek: I let them know that seemed a little unreasonable to me and they generously came down to $9.95.

I don't understand why they and other vendor don't stock a minimal supply of small envelopes and send things like that by USPS first class mail. An item weighing less than 13 ounces will go anywhere in the country for $1.30 and will get there nearly as fast as if sent by Priority Mail most of the time. I do understand that the company probably won't be making much, if any, profit on such an order; but it seems like doing this would be a big customer service boost and any loss will be offset by the $100 orders that I make which are much more the norm.

BTW, I ended up buying the LC point at a Woodcraft store that was selling them for $1.95. It was an item that they stock as a courtesy to their customers as you won't find them in the catalog!!
 
LostintheWoods said:
Seems as though you're suggesting something akin to WalMart for penmaking supplies. They could stock everything, buy in horrendous quantities, and sell for less. Of course, they would be able to demand that their vendors make the kits to THEIR SPECS, not what they produce on a normal basis. They would also make the market unprofitable for their competition, thereby driving many of the other suppliers out of business.......IS THAT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT?
As for me, I think I'll just continue to buy my stuff from "mom and pop", thank you!!!!
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C'mon... That's not fair. I haven't said anything about selling for less, forcing people to make custom material, or putting Mom and Pop on the breadline. :rolleyes: Charge what you want, just carry the stuff. Pricing gives a buyer the option of buying, or not. If you don't have the item, there is no option. I just don't like it when I pay 10 bucks for a one dollar item, because it's the only thing I can find that I need from that vendor. :frown:

I had no idea that this topic would be so divisive :eek: so I will back out of it now.
 
monkeynutz said:
My main rant is that I need about 8 bucks worth of merchandise, and have to go to 3 different places to get them, and pay about $20 in shipping fees.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but buying these items from our members would only cost you about $3.90 total to ship (if all the items are/were available from our members?) Perhaps a separate area where members could post what they have available on an ongoing basis so anyone could just look it up without having to try to figure out who has what? Seems like an easy set-up considering we have Lance in place already as a Merchandising co-ordinator:wink:
 
Hey Simiannutz,

I do hear ya. I don't know what everyone is going off about....??.

Funny how a simple musing gets slammed with .....free enterprise and flag waving....:rolleyes:

I am one of those guys in Japan. I could say you have nothing to really complain about if we wish to compare shipping costs, but no, I'll just say I understand what you're saying in a very light and simplistic "boy it would be nice" kind of way.

Cheers
 
monkeynutz said:
Don't you just hate it when you need a very few things, and you can't find one source that has them all?? :mad:

I need a couple single-pen acrylic stands, a few sheets of Tyvek price tags, and a few gold/brass buttons for pen stands... Only a few dollars worth of stuff, but I gotta buy them in three different places (and pay three different shipping charges). I sure do wish a couple of the full-service suppliers really were exactly that. :frown:
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You guys need to cut monkeynutz a little slack. The poor guy was just bemoaning his misfortune that he needed a very small order of supplies but had to get them from three different websites. Can't a guy even whine a little without getting some moral support? He wasn't saying that he didn't love America or that he refused to take his hat off during the National Anthem.

We all need to lighten up a little.
 
The ability of a supplier to provide ALL items a penturner may want boils down to economics. Suppliers do not have the luxury of having capital tied up in inventory that moves slowly.

The profitability of a retail business has a goal of a certain number of "inventory turns" per year. Slow moving items are identified and replaced with items that are being sought by the customer base. We all profit by the big suppiers such as Woodcraft and CSUSA having their clearance sales. These are the items that they have identified as being the slow movers and tying up capital without providing a profit.

Any business needs to have a strong capital flow to remain in business.
 
I'm with MonkeyNutz... it's not that I don't plan, but as we approach the end of the year I am trying to reduce inventory, so on my last special order I needed to order:
  • the blanks from one supplier (who does not stock pen hardware)
  • the hardware from another supplier (only one who carries one of the pens ordered)
  • boxes (I gave my last ones away at the show last weekend)
  • gel refills (The customer may not always be right, but he is always the customer)
I suppose I could have refused to make the pen(s) that the customer wants, but if I can please him, who knows what I might be able to sell in the future. 4 suppliers. As it stands at the moment, I am into these 2 pens for almost $20 more than the order (because of extras ordered at the same time, after all, I am trying to plan ahead).

It's not about the suppliers - it's just the frustration of all the things that need to come together to build the pen to the customer's desires, and the fact that NONE of them ship First Class, they ALL ship priority, no matter how small or light the order.
 
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So, is there a way that we here can help alleviate some of that frustration? The suggestion was posted a while ago, that we try to help take care of each other here. If you need something small like that, why not post the need here and see who responds. I'm sure if someone here has that item(s) that they would be willing to ship first class and save you some money.
 
Randy, it is not quite that simple. and I am not a business so I am not paying employees or overhead.
I do provide small envelopes for small orders but they cost me, so that gets added. I also get charged an extra 18 cents to print first class postage online because you cannot get it without delivery confirmation and for first class confirmation is not free. I also have to buy the printer supplies to print labels. which is not much until it comes time to buy a new cartridge. I was informed by my wife that all cartridges have to be bought from my pay pal account. I have always bought our printers from it which seems to happen about every two years. I'm looking for a laser printer now.
then of course there are the pay pal charges etc. it is all nickle and dime but when you have 5 or 6 dimes per order it starts adding up.
I also do not know where you are getting $1.30 for up to 13 ounces. USPS.com shows $3.21 for a 13oz package. $2.87 for a large envelope. (limited to 3/4" thick)

but even for me that becomes
$3.21 postage
$0.18 confirmation
$0.50 envelope and printing
$0.30 pay pal transaction fee
$0.15 pay pal fee
for a total of $4.29
compared to just charging $5.25 priority flat rate.
 
Exactly, there is already a ton of taking care of each other going on. Just post a request for small stuff. I have met two needs in just the last few days alone. For me it is really no big deal. I am so set up to pack and mail stuff I don't even have to leave my house to do it, but this is not true for everyone. still they will make that trip to the post office or whatever to help out other members. I am trying to buy extras (lots of them) in everything I do now but still money lags behind need all the time. So far my extras are running out before I can even get the goods.
a couple of examples. I ordered 100 extra cutter heads, I have not even received them and 60 of them have already been requested and paid for.
I ordered 100 extra bullets and brass for the 50 cal kits. I have not even gotten the brass ordered yet and 70 of those extras are spoken for.

So my first couple of attempts have been pretty fair failures and it is risky to try and estimate what demand will be. of course this has made the buy work much better for many of our members since many of them where able to get in on them even a month ofter they closed.

I will say this, I post questions and get my threads locked for fishing, I start group buys or offers in individual classifieds and even open the thread up to discussion, suggestions etc but get little to no feedback. I then run or close a buy and am flooded with e-mails or PM with comments of what would have worked better etc. I also post messages in my buys that say if you are even thinking about getting one of these let me know. I will do everything I can to be prepared for what is coming weeks or even months later, But I have never once gotten a PM that says hey can I pay for these in a month. but every time I close a buy I spend the next week to a month getting additional requests for the item.
Classifieds are somewhat kept on the back shelf now. they do not show on the most recent posts thread. there is nothing on the front page to draw attention to what is currently being offered, nothing. so all the people that get bored enough to actually check them this month finally realize there was some great offer on something they wanted to get. and are reading it three weeks to late. I got an e-mail this morning from two people that saw my pen mill offer for the first time yesterday. Not exactly high profile in my book.
I think there are at least a couple of things in all that can "Be Done"


babyblues said:
So, is there a way that we here can help alleviate some of that frustration? The suggestion was posted a while ago, that we try to help take care of each other here. If you need something small like that, why not post the need here and see who responds. I'm sure if someone here has that item(s) that they would be willing to ship first class and save you some money.
Click to expand...
 
I just don't get it. A guy makes a simple little post venting his frustration, and he gets skewered.
 
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