Stabilizing my way

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wolftat

wolftat

Product Reviews Manager
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I have received a lot of questions on how I do my stabilizing so here is my answer. I am a product tester for a chemical company that makes one of the stabilizers that I use, so it is not on the market yet and will hopefully make it to the public soon since it seems to work well, but we will have to see what happens down the road with it.
Now the part that will actually help. I take an unused 1 gallon paint can with a lid. I fill the c an with blanks that are porous and will accept the stabilizer(don't used cocobolo or ironwood and that type of woods). I stand all the blanks up on end and pack them in so they will continue to stand. I then fill the can up with Minwax Wood Hardener and put the lid on the can tightly. Make sure the Wood Hardener is above the top of the blanks. I now put the can on a shelf after clearly marking the can contents and date. Now I shake the can once a week if I remember to do that. Most people will leave the blanks in until they sink, but that is not long enough. I leave my blanks in for at least a month without opening the can. After a month or more, I take the blanks out and lay them down on a piece of cardboard for a couple of days, this allows them to dry and harden. I don't let them touch while drying, but don't know if that makes a difference. The blanks are now as stabilized as any that I have bought from the big companies.
This is the way I do it and I do not think that this is the right way, or the only way. It is just my way. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them.

One last thing. I am also working with acetone and plexiglass as a stabilizer and will let you know how it works out when I pull them out of the can and dry them.
 
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I'll have to try your method. I'm actually surprised that it works so well without vac/pressure, but who's to argue with success. Of course, now I'll have to plan to stabilize stuff a month out...
 
sbell111 said:
I'll have to try your method. I'm actually surprised that it works so well without vac/pressure, but who's to argue with success. Of course, now I'll have to plan to stabilize stuff a month out...
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I know it is rough to wait, but that is why I keep over 3000 blanks worth of wood around, just ask my wife how many I have and she can probably give you an exact count....LOL.:)
 
I do the same thing but only leave the blanks for a couple of days. I have stabilized punky wood and pine cones and found a day or two is all I need to be able to turn the blank. I even soaked 2 wine corks for a day and was able to turn them after the treatment. Minwax Wood Hardener is the product I can recommend. Just make sure the blank has dried thoroughly. The drying sometimes takes as long as the soak.
 
I have tow or three large chunks of Buckeye Burl. All blond as far as I can tell. I've been thinking of trying to dye it and then stabilize it. will have to do a test run on this method with it.
 
Curtis Seebeck is the man to talk to about stabilizing, he's tried just about everything out there. I tried vacuum stabilizing with a thinned out poly for floors and it worked okay after a 2 day soak and 5 days or so to dry, but were still wet on the inside when I turned them. This was with some spalted maple and curly walnut. I wasn't really thrilled with the results, especially considering the effort it took. Does the wood hardener change the color at all? The poly seemed to darken it up quite a bit.

I'm also experimenting with acrylic in acetone, but as a finish. It's taken a while to melt, but now I'm playing with it. I did it yesterday but it was raining and really humid so I'm not sure if that changed anything. More about that later.
 
GouletPens said:
Curtis Seebeck is the man to talk to about stabilizing, he's tried just about everything out there. I tried vacuum stabilizing with a thinned out poly for floors and it worked okay after a 2 day soak and 5 days or so to dry, but were still wet on the inside when I turned them. This was with some spalted maple and curly walnut. I wasn't really thrilled with the results, especially considering the effort it took. Does the wood hardener change the color at all? The poly seemed to darken it up quite a bit.

I'm also experimenting with acrylic in acetone, but as a finish. It's taken a while to melt, but now I'm playing with it. I did it yesterday but it was raining and really humid so I'm not sure if that changed anything. More about that later.
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The wood hardener does change the color, but from what I have seen it is just a little change and it tends to make the spalting stand out a bit more.
 
Daniel said:
I have tow or three large chunks of Buckeye Burl. All blond as far as I can tell. I've been thinking of trying to dye it and then stabilize it. will have to do a test run on this method with it.
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I have a can full of buckeye right now that should be out in a week or so and I will turn a couple of pens from it as soon as they are dry.
 
wolftat said:
One last thing. I am also working with acetone and plexiglass as a stabilizer and will let you know how it works out when I pull them out of the can and dry them.
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This did well on some holly but terrible on bloodwood. Bleached the bloodwood mildly, but still noticeable.

Oil Poly and slightly amber colored stabilizers don't do well on holly, unless you want an antiqued ivory look. DAMHIKT! :rolleyes: :redface:
 
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I would also like to hear about its use on corn cobs.
I have tried the Minwaxx product on cobs in a jar under vacuum for about six hours . Apparently that is not enough .
It did harden quite a bit but the main concern was that it does not fill in the holes in the kernel sockets so they still had to be filled with CA while turning.
Does the one month soak work better for that or is there just no way of filling the kernel pockets in the cob by using the hardner. .
Same thing happens with the 50/50 poly/MS . Still have to fill as I go later while turning .
I have a LOT of pen blank size cobs that I would like to turn satisfactorily enough to use myself and also put some on the Buy/Sell board in my own site.
I have sold a lot of cob pens buy have not always been pleased with my hardening procedures.

309507651.jpg

W.Y.
 
William, the hardener will not fill in the voids on the corn cobb no matter how long you leave it in. The hardener works by adhering to the fibers and making them hard once it dries. If there are no fibers the hardener has nothing to "cling" to. One way I have approached this is by carfully cutting the cobs 13/16 square then drilling a 1/4 " hole and dipping the cobb in minwax for several days. This hardens the cobb BUT leaves the voids. You can turn it from here IF you are willing to use a lot of CA. Step two is I cast the cobb blocks in alumilite under pressure, this further hardens the cobb and fills the voids allowing to make a solid block.
Eugene

William O Young said:
I would also like to hear about its use on corn cobs.
I have tried the Minwaxx product on cobs in a jar under vacuum for about six hours . Apparently that is not enough .
It did harden quite a bit but the main concern was that it does not fill in the holes in the kernel sockets so they still had to be filled with CA while turning.
Does the one month soak work better for that or is there just no way of filling the kernel pockets in the cob by using the hardner. .
Same thing happens with the 50/50 poly/MS . Still have to fill as I go later while turning .
I have a LOT of pen blank size cobs that I would like to turn satisfactorily enough to use myself and also put some on the Buy/Sell board in my own site.
I have sold a lot of cob pens buy have not always been pleased with my hardening procedures.

309507651.jpg

W.Y.
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Thanks Eugene
Somehow I was afraid that would be the answer. No easy way to do it. :wink:.
I have not read up much on casting blanks yet because I have had good luck with either poly or hardner for soft and spalted woods that didn't have many voids just by drawing a vacuum on them . Cobs , however with all those voids is another story.
I know there have been lots of articles about casting under pressure but I have basically skipped over them because at the time it was not something I wanted to get into with pressure pots etc. . Guess it's time I better start looking into casting
Is there a way of casting corn cobs that does not require the pressure pot process ?
W.Y.
 
William O Young said:
Thanks Eugene
Somehow I was afraid that would be the answer. No easy way to do it. :wink:.
I have not read up much on casting blanks yet because I have had good luck with either poly or hardner for soft and spalted woods that didn't have many voids just by drawing a vacuum on them . Cobs , however with all those voids is another story.
I know there have been lots of articles about casting under pressure but I have basically skipped over them because at the time it was not something I wanted to get into with pressure pots etc. . Guess it's time I better start looking into casting
Is there a way of casting corn cobs that does not require the pressure pot process ?
W.Y.
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I seriously doubt it. Pretty much any time you cast something in the goop, you need to use pressure and/or vacuum.
 
If you're just casting straight resin with no objects in it, then you can use an ultrasonic machine to get the bubbles out (vibrates at a very high frequency) instead of a p/v pot. But yeah, if you're casting an object, then you have to use the pot, otherwise your resin won't fill any of the voids you're trying to fill. If this is the kind of stuff you're looking to do, then dive in and get a pot. Check out the "minimalist pot" that some of the guys on the forum here have made. I made mine before I saw the minimalist design, and I wish I'd built mine like that.
 
Thanks and that sounds interesting .
Check out the "minimalist pot" that some of the guys on the forum here have made. I made mine before I saw the minimalist design, and I wish I'd built mine like that.
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Do you happen to have a link to that to save me doing a search ? .
I have a lot to learn about casting because I have never tried it (yet) .

I like building things because I am frugal (nice word for cheap) :wink:
W.Y.
 
Blind_Squirrel is the one to talk to about the minimalist pot. He's actually built one, and here's his link he posted on a different thread http://www.blindsquirrel.us/Scott/PressurePot/

My pressure pot is the same 'basic' design, but mine doesn't have a detachable vacuum pump on it, it's permanent. Mine is basically identical to the one in the article I've attached. I changed some parts b/c I couldn't find some stuff and had to adapt, but it's basically identical. It ended up costing me, I think, about $75 or so, I don't exactly recall b/c it was about a year ago.
 

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Thanks for that information.
That is something I can consider making during the slower winter months.
W.Y.
 
sbell111 said:
Has anyone tried the wood hardener with corncobs?
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Yep, done many!!! I'll do a dozen at a time in a gallon glass jar under vacuum. Once they sink (anywhere from 2-10 hours) I pull them out and they go into the hot box. After 24 hrs in the box, I allow them to cool and they are usually ready to turn. Sometimes a bit more drying time is needed but not typically. Even the pith sets up really nice.

I am using the MinWax Wood Hardener for more and more of my stabilizing. It can get a bit pricey but well worth it for the end results. I used to use MinWax Clear Gloss poly and even thinned, it takes far longer to stabilize and even longer to dry. I used to pre-drill blanks, and cobs, with a 1/4" thru-hole to speed up the overall process with success but the Wood Hardener makes stablizing far easier and no need to drill any holes.
 
Stabilized cobs

When first exploring cobs a few years ago I started with Minwax Hardener. It certainly helped, but not nearly the quality of the commercial processing.

I prefer the texture of the cob surface with the voids. It also helps the customers confirm that the pen is indeed made from corn cob. For friction polish finish, the voids are not a problem. For CA, different story. To fill the voids with CA, it might help to start filling before the final size of the barrel is reached.

I have a turning tips sheet that I send out with purchased cob blanks that I will try to post.

Thanks,
Tim
 
Hi Tim.
Nice to see you here.
I have actually bought stabilized cobs from you in the past and they were real good.
I was just looking for a quick and easy way and most of all inexpensive way of stabilizing but apparently that is not a possible combination to acheive .

I like the voids filled and a smooth shiny 4 or 5 coat CA finish on the pen but that is probably just a personal thing . I am not sure how they would look as a finished pen with the voids left as is. .

I have a pretty good market for cob pens among the corn farmers so I will continue hardening with either poly or Minwax hardner (I have used both) and filling voids with CA as I go for now and look into a beter way of stabilizing in the new year .
Do you have a picture of your finished pens that have the open voids ?

W.Y.
 
William,
Have you tried the Plexi and Acetone for your cobs.
I did a few (before Pressure Pot days) and it worked nice for me.
I put them in a coffee can (with snap on plastic lid) and let them soak for about a week. Since the lid was less than perfect the solution was pretty thin when I started but by the end of the week (shake about each day) it was pretty thick so it filled the voids pretty good.
 
Yes Kirk, I have actually tried that. I have half a gallon of it all dissolved. .
I went from thin to thicker experimenting with it under vacuum and the last ones I did about a month ago look like the voids filled pretty good . I have not had a chance to turn them yet .
I did find that plexigless did not harden the cob real well but hopefully these last ones will be better.
Will report back when I try them on the lathe . Been too darn cold to waste electricity for heating the shop. Supposed to warm up a little soon so maybe between Christmas and new years.
W.Y.
 
William O Young said:
Yes Kirk, I have actually tried that. I have half a gallon of it all dissolved. .
I went from thin to thicker experimenting with it under vacuum and the last ones I did about a month ago look like the voids filled pretty good . I have not had a chance to turn them yet .
I did find that plexigless did not harden the cob real well but hopefully these last ones will be better.
Will report back when I try them on the lathe . Been too darn cold to waste electricity for heating the shop. Supposed to warm up a little soon so maybe between Christmas and new years.
W.Y.
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It sounds almost like you need to use the thin mix first, let it dry and then use the thicker mix to fill the voids. That way it should penetrate the core and still fill everything in.
 
I'll add my suggestion to the mix on this thread: when I stabilize (in a vacuum pot device) I predrill my blanks with a 7 mm bit (the smallest of any kit I turn) so the wood has more surface area for the hardener to be pulled into. It is my opinion that allowing the Minwax Wood Hardener to enter through the center of the blank as well as the outside, it fills the blank more thoroughly and quickly. I've never hit a section of wood that wasn't well-impregnated with hardener (no comments, now! [lol]) while turning. When the blanks come out, I either clean up (if I'm using a 7 mm kit) or redrill the holes to the proper size if the tubes are larger than 7 mm.

FWIW, which may not be much. ;-)
 
punkinn said:
I'll add my suggestion to the mix on this thread: when I stabilize (in a vacuum pot device) I predrill my blanks with a 7 mm bit (the smallest of any kit I turn) so the wood has more surface area for the hardener to be pulled into. It is my opinion that allowing the Minwax Wood Hardener to enter through the center of the blank as well as the outside, it fills the blank more thoroughly and quickly. I've never hit a section of wood that wasn't well-impregnated with hardener (no comments, now! [lol]) while turning. When the blanks come out, I either clean up (if I'm using a 7 mm kit) or redrill the holes to the proper size if the tubes are larger than 7 mm.

FWIW, which may not be much. ;-)
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When you're using the wood hardener, how long to you have to let it dry after vacuuming before it's able to be turned?
 
The drying time will be effected by the temperature and the humidity level. I usually let my blanks dry for a week before I touch them.

Drilling a small hole is a good idea, but I have had some blanks warp just a bit whils stabilizing, so I would go with a little smaller hole that you plan on drilling in the end.
 
I know this is a very old thread but it is exactly what I need to do.

I have a piece of historic pine from the Pabst Blue Ribbon Brew House in Milwaukee. The wood is over 100 years old is is very dry.

Taking in to accound this method, would it be reasonable to rig a hand pumped automotive Brake Bleeder and Vacuum Pump Kit to speed the process?
 
I used Min Wax Wood Hardener once last year, only did it a little differently.

I created a vacuum by heating the Wood Hardener.

I put the liquid in a jar and filled with blanks. Then I turned on the hot water faucet in the kitchen sink and held the jar under the water until I started to see air bubbles coming out of the end grain. I turned off the water and screwed the lid on. After a couple hours it had cooled down forming a vacuum in the jar. I left it that way for quite some time (I think it may have been a couple months before I got around to opening it), and like you set the blanks out to dry upon removing them from the jar. I haven't turned any yet, but am confident they are saturated.

Got the idea from North Coast Knives. Just have to be careful because this stuff is very combustible.
 
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