stabilizing casted pieces

[healeydays]

Folks,

Got a question for the gurus. I had someone send me a few ugly dry punky wood blanks that have been already cast to fill in the holes, the problem is the wood seems to be a bit soft that if I tried to do anything with them, they would fall apart so they need to be stabilized. I know the person uses Alumilite that sent them to me, but I'm concerned that when I put them in the over to cure, the Alumilite might not like it.

Comments?

 

[Monty]

IIRC you will be OK if your are stabilizing with Cactus Juice since it cures at 200*F. I'm sure Curtis will chime in and verify if this is correct.

 

[Jim Burr]

I think Monty is on the money...something like 179* to 205*...approximately!! Remember it is the core that needs to reach temp to cure correctly. IMHO only, I like to stabilize then cast.

 

[healeydays]

I think Monty is on the money...something like 179* to 205*...approximately!! Remember it is the core that needs to reach temp to cure correctly. IMHO only, I like to stabilize then cast.

I normally would stabilize then cast, but these look like they would be real nice to turn, but I know they will just fall apart, so looking to see if it's possible.

 

[Justturnin]

I always stabilize after casting. Stabilizing before leaves small cracks filled w/ stabilizing resin instead of your colored resin and leaves dried stabilizing resin that either has to be cleaned off or cast over and you can see that in the finished product.

Edit, I use Cactus Juice and Alumilite

 

[healeydays]

I always stabilize after casting. Stabilizing before leaves small cracks filled w/ stabilizing resin instead of your colored resin and leaves dried stabilizing resin that either has to be cleaned off or cast over and you can see that in the finished product.

Edit, I use Cactus Juice and Alumilite

And you have no problem with temp effecting the Alumilite? Which Alumilite product are you using?

 

[Justturnin]

I always stabilize after casting. Stabilizing before leaves small cracks filled w/ stabilizing resin instead of your colored resin and leaves dried stabilizing resin that either has to be cleaned off or cast over and you can see that in the finished product.

Edit, I use Cactus Juice and Alumilite

And you have no problem with temp effecting the Alumilite? Which Alumilite product are you using?

None at all. I use the Alumilite Clear with Pearl Ex and Coastal Scents micas. I literally have 5 cast blanks in the oven now and 4 more waiting for their turn. Do you stabilize? If not I will do them for you. May take a week to turn it around.

 

[healeydays]

I do stabilize using Curtis' "juice", just in the opposite order, but now I will try it this way and see how it turns out. Also asked the folks at Alumilite and will post their response when I get it.

 

[ElMostro]

I also cast in allumilite then stabilize and it works just fine, no issue with the heat.
Eugene

 

[HamTurns]

After Alumilite before Cactus Juice prep?

I also cast in allumilite then stabilize and it works just fine, no issue with the heat.
Eugene

After you cast w/Alumilite do you prep the blank in any way like trimming the ends and sides, or sanding?

I was just thinking that after you cast the wood it would be sealed by the resin and not breathe. But if you trimmed or sanded you may open enough grain to "breath" in Cactus Juice during the vacuum cycle.

What do you do? :question:

Thanks
Tom

 

[Justturnin]

I also cast in allumilite then stabilize and it works just fine, no issue with the heat.
Eugene

After you cast w/Alumilite do you prep the blank in any way like trimming the ends and sides, or sanding?

I was just thinking that after you cast the wood it would be sealed by the resin and not breathe. But if you trimmed or sanded you may open enough grain to "breath" in Cactus Juice during the vacuum cycle.

What do you do? :question:

Thanks
Tom

After I cast I round them on my lathe to expose the wood until I just need one more pass. Then I stabilize them and once they are done I take the final pass and my blanks are clean and ready to go.

 

[ElMostro]

I also cast in allumilite then stabilize and it works just fine, no issue with the heat.
Eugene

After you cast w/Alumilite do you prep the blank in any way like trimming the ends and sides, or sanding?

I was just thinking that after you cast the wood it would be sealed by the resin and not breathe. But if you trimmed or sanded you may open enough grain to "breath" in Cactus Juice during the vacuum cycle.
What do you do? :question:
Thanks
Tom

Not all cast woods benefit from stabilizing. At the right pressure most woods will absorb enough resin to harden as if they had been stabilized so casting is enough. Some woods (like redwood and some tree barks) however, will not absorb the resin so stabilizing the blanks after casting them helps harden the fibers that did not absorb any resin.
Eugene.

 

[healeydays]

I also cast in allumilite then stabilize and it works just fine, no issue with the heat.
Eugene

Eugene,

If you say it works, then that's good enough for me.

Mike B

 

[HamTurns]

After I cast I round them on my lathe to expose the wood until I just need one more pass. Then I stabilize them and once they are done I take the final pass and my blanks are clean and ready to go.

Do you drill after casting?

Then re-drill for a good tube fit?

I can see drilling before stabilizing, because it would save juice.

Speaking of juice, I have a half gallon coming today! :bananen_smilies051: I have some spalted maple ready to go.

 

[ElMostro]

After I cast I round them on my lathe to expose the wood until I just need one more pass. Then I stabilize them and once they are done I take the final pass and my blanks are clean and ready to go.

Do you drill after casting?
Then re-drill for a good tube fit?
I can see drilling before stabilizing, because it would save juice.
Speaking of juice, I have a half gallon coming today! :bananen_smilies051: I have some spalted maple ready to go.

Since I make the blanks for sale I do not drill them...so I stabilize without drilling. If the are for personal and you already know what kit you will use them on I guess you can drill then stabilize but you would have to redrill to clean up the hole (I have never done it this way so this is just a guess)
Eugene.

 

[Justturnin]

Do you drill after casting?

Then re-drill for a good tube fit?

I can see drilling before stabilizing, because it would save juice.

Speaking of juice, I have a half gallon coming today! :bananen_smilies051: I have some spalted maple ready to go.

I drill after all is complete. I just round them between centers to expose the wood and I guess it is two fold because you also remove the corners so they don't soak up the juice. I would not drill before because you have to put the blank in the oven and get it pretty hot and there is a chance it may move on you making lining the hole back up to clean near impossible.

 

[Jim Burr]

I always stabilize after casting. Stabilizing before leaves small cracks filled w/ stabilizing resin instead of your colored resin and leaves dried stabilizing resin that either has to be cleaned off or cast over and you can see that in the finished product.

Edit, I use Cactus Juice and Alumilite

It's gotta be a very very tiny crack Chris...CJ doesn't fill holes or cracks well, it's to thin. As thick as resin is, even under pressure it doesn't fill really small stuff.

 

[healeydays]

I also cast in allumilite then stabilize and it works just fine, no issue with the heat.
Eugene

After you cast w/Alumilite do you prep the blank in any way like trimming the ends and sides, or sanding?

I was just thinking that after you cast the wood it would be sealed by the resin and not breathe. But if you trimmed or sanded you may open enough grain to "breath" in Cactus Juice during the vacuum cycle.
What do you do? :question:
Thanks
Tom

Not all cast woods benefit from stabilizing. At the right pressure most woods will absorb enough resin to harden as if they had been stabilized so casting is enough. Some woods (like redwood and some tree barks) however, will not absorb the resin so stabilizing the blanks after casting them helps harden the fibers that did not absorb any resin.
Eugene.

Eugene,

You also pressurize your blanks at mega pressures, so I would imagine that should be enough.

Mike

 

[Justturnin]

I always stabilize after casting. Stabilizing before leaves small cracks filled w/ stabilizing resin instead of your colored resin and leaves dried stabilizing resin that either has to be cleaned off or cast over and you can see that in the finished product.

Edit, I use Cactus Juice and Alumilite

It's gotta be a very very tiny crack Chris...CJ doesn't fill holes or cracks well, it's to thin. As thick as resin is, even under pressure it doesn't fill really small stuff.

From what I have seen Cactus juice can fill a crack in an undesirable way. When it is cooking and some leaks out it can pool in cracks before polymerizing leaving a clearish broken glass look. I have some blanks from when I first started that I cant cast because of this exact reason. I will see if I can dig them out and snap some pics.

As for the Resin being too thick this is true out of the bottle but as resin begins to cure it gets hot and thin as water. I have filled some hairline cracks with allumilte under 80psi. These are so small sometimes you cant even see it unless you really look but it is there and glues my useless cracked blank back together. Resin is like the old saying "it is darkest before the dawn" except with resin it is "It is thinnest before the gel" meaning just before the resin sets up it get hot and thin. This is actually the best time to stir it up and pour because it will flow into the cracks and will set up before your pigments have time to settle back down.

This is just from my personal experience. I acknowledge that everyone gets different results even when the exact same process is followed. The best way is to get dirty and test and ruin blanks.

 

[Dorno]

Th question I have is I use clear casting poly resin for blanks and also ww blanks because alumilite is so expensive here and only available in max 32oz size and have been told i am best to stablize after casting because the resin will not stick to cactus juice but the reverse process does work,where the cactus juice will stick to the resin.

I hope i got this the right way round

I look forward to your comments


Cheers Ian

 

[sbell111]

I never considered stablizing cast blanks (before or after). I alway have simply treated any weak spots with thin CA.

 

[Jim Burr]

I always stabilize after casting. Stabilizing before leaves small cracks filled w/ stabilizing resin instead of your colored resin and leaves dried stabilizing resin that either has to be cleaned off or cast over and you can see that in the finished product.

Edit, I use Cactus Juice and Alumilite

It's gotta be a very very tiny crack Chris...CJ doesn't fill holes or cracks well, it's to thin. As thick as resin is, even under pressure it doesn't fill really small stuff.

From what I have seen Cactus juice can fill a crack in an undesirable way. When it is cooking and some leaks out it can pool in cracks before polymerizing leaving a clearish broken glass look. I have some blanks from when I first started that I cant cast because of this exact reason. I will see if I can dig them out and snap some pics.

As for the Resin being too thick this is true out of the bottle but as resin begins to cure it gets hot and thin as water. I have filled some hairline cracks with allumilte under 80psi. These are so small sometimes you cant even see it unless you really look but it is there and glues my useless cracked blank back together. Resin is like the old saying "it is darkest before the dawn" except with resin it is "It is thinnest before the gel" meaning just before the resin sets up it get hot and thin. This is actually the best time to stir it up and pour because it will flow into the cracks and will set up before your pigments have time to settle back down.

This is just from my personal experience. I acknowledge that everyone gets different results even when the exact same process is followed. The best way is to get dirty and test and ruin blanks.

Yeah...I used to get that result. I changed the way I "bake" the blanks and it eliminated the problem. But I completely with you that the cracked glass thing is a real pain and makes any thing other than just turning a really problem!

 

[Jim Burr]

I never considered stablizing cast blanks (before or after). I alway have simply treated any weak spots with thin CA.

You're missing out Steve! Save yourself the trouble and CA!

 

[MesquiteMan]

Th question I have is I use clear casting poly resin for blanks and also ww blanks because alumilite is so expensive here and only available in max 32oz size and have been told i am best to stablize after casting because the resin will not stick to cactus juice but the reverse process does work,where the cactus juice will stick to the resin.

I hope i got this the right way round

I look forward to your comments


Cheers Ian

I always stabilize first, then cast and have never had a problem with Alumilite sticking to the stabilized blanks. I do this because I do a lot of punky wood and when casting first, you will get some color bleed from the colored casting resin into the wood. I like nice, clean definitions between the two so I stabilize first so it reduces/eliminates the resin color bleed.

 

[ElMostro]

....when casting first, you will get some color bleed from the colored casting resin into the wood. I like nice, clean definitions between the two so I stabilize first so it reduces/eliminates the resin color bleed.

I agree that when casting using liquid dyes there is bleeding of the colors into the wood but when using powdered pigments any color bleed is superficial and a quick run on the belt sander will clean it up.