stabalized blank

[gwisher]

I know this is probably covered somewhere but what exactly is the difference from a stabalized blank from one that is not? Does it affect the quality of the pen? And if in fact it does make a big difference how do you stabalize it?

 

[ZanderPommo]

only punky woods need stabilization. woods that would otherwise fall apart.
this is most often the case anyway

 

[erebus]

It does make a slight difference in the wood. Most of the pieces I've had stabalized that I can compare to other original pieces are just a slight bit darker, which we get from finishing anyway. Also the stabilizing material in the wood pretty much precludes the need for ever needing to seal the wood(it's already done) and it takes a slightly higher shine.

just my .02
E

 

[gwisher]

ok so what is the process in stabalizing the wood? Also you had mentioned sealing it. Isn't that finnishing? As you can tell I am new to this.

 

[TellicoTurning]

ok so what is the process in stabalizing the wood? Also you had mentioned sealing it. Isn't that finnishing? As you can tell I am new to this.

The stabilization usually involves soaking the wood, under pressure/vacuum in a wood hardener or some sort of plastic solution... lots of turners do it themselves, if they have the equipment, i.e., vacuum pump, compressor and pressure pot... I don't so I have to either send it out to be stabilized or just buy already stabilized blanks...I usually go for the commercially stabilized blanks from what ever supplier I am using.

The stabilization process that is done commercially makes the wood blanks almost a plastic type of material... if the wood is punky or soft and crumbly, it is almost always necessary to stabilize... punky wood can also be stabilized somewhat by soaking with water thin CA...

 

[rjwolfe3]

To me professionally stabilized blanks are so much easier to turn and they finish beautifully. They cost a lot more then non stabilized but in my opinion it is worth it.

 

[TellicoTurning]

To me professionally stabilized blanks are so much easier to turn and they finish beautifully. They cost a lot more then non stabilized but in my opinion it is worth it.

Agreed!

 

[leehljp]

On softer woods, stabilizing it really helps the turning and prevents tearing out. On some burls that have soft and hard spots, plus woods with irregular grain benefit from stabilizing too. Stabilizing allows corn cobs to be turned into pens. Being over here away from good commercial stabilizers, I do my own occasionally.

I love redwood burl and I can tell the difference in stabilized RW burls versus non-stabilized RW burls.

Early on, most pen turners stabilized their own and the mixtures varied but Polyurethane or thinned poly was used as much as anything else as a stabilizer. Curing took a week in high heat, or even much longer in other conditions. This past year, another medium was suggested and used - white glue thinned. Also a professionally available material is Ultraseal. Do a search for that. I think several people use it. As mentioned, these are applied with pressure and/or vacuum.

 

[chrisk]

And what about the finishing process? Can we use all kind of finish (CA, cellulosic sealer, pure carnauba wax, etc.) on a stabilized blank?

 

[rjwolfe3]

I use CA/BLO on mine but others may do something different.

 

[chrisk]

OK. Thank you. For I've read in another topic about some kind of reaction between a stabilisation product and CA???
Sorry, I've never turned stabilised wood. I've just been delivered some stabilized blanks from the US and will try soon.

 

[jwoodwright]

Stabilizing can be done on any wood. The professional method replaces all moisture with a plastic type agent. Thus, wood movement is gone forever, no moisture... Easier to turn and finishs like a dream!

 

[tgraytn]

Do you apply the finish to the stabilized wood just as you would acrylic? Sand and then apply plastics polish such as 20/20 etc.?

 

[leehljp]

Stabilizing wood is done primarily for the purpose of making the wood more stable to turn without coming apart.

Stabilized wood still needs a finish unless a person wants the bare wood look and feel. Of course on a corn cob or punky wood in which most of the material will be the plastic/ acrylic / poly hardener, - in those situations the material will feel like the filler material. Otherwise, stabilized wood will have a wood bare wood feel and need a finish applied.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Stabilizing can be done on any wood. The professional method replaces all moisture with a plastic type agent. Thus, wood movement is gone forever, no moisture... Easier to turn and finishs like a dream!

I am not so sure I completely agree with the above. I have done a lot of stabilizing over the last few years and have tried just about every possible solution. I now use Resinol 90c (what the pros use) or Ultraseal and have found a number of different very hard woods that I can not get the resin to penetrate even with a deep vacuum or high pressure.

 

[robutacion]

This issue has been discussed many times before but, there is always something new to add. I believe one of the bigger "dilemmas" is to make the decision to harden or not that particular blank, regardless if you purchased it or you cut it yourself from a board/log/tree, etc. There is a large group of woods that don't need any more hardening but some others can do with a little help.

Lets see, if the blanks is generally all spalted, the chances are you will need to harden it, if the blank look OK but you see a few spots that feel soft to touch or fingernail scratch, you can decide to put it in the lathe, turn as far as you can and then soak the soft area with CA. This sometimes works, some don't, and in most cases, the blanks are lost (blow outs) as the wood didn't have enough strength to keep together, with the gouge or other tools tearing it to bits!

So, if the blank is soft for whatever the reason and spalting is not the only cause, and you don't want to risk losing it buy not have stabilize enough to resist to the cutting/shaping process, not having all the stabilizing gear (pressure pots), shouldn't deter anyone from having it harden. I simple glass jar or a glass test tube, enough to fit the blank in and have it submersed with any of the wood hardener available at most hardware stores.

Don't put any lid on it, leave it there for a couple of days, then get it out and put it to dry somewhere where it will not get stuck to anything. Drying time really depends of where you are, at least one week, and I would keep it the the hottest part of the house or shed. You can also accelerate the drying process by using hot air guns or a gas blower, just be careful of not burning it...!

If wood hardener is not available or you can't afford it, that's right, at $69 a litre up here, you either are desperate or crazy! is that case you can harden the wood quite well, by using a 50% water and white wood glue of a medium to good quality, that dries clear, this is important!. Mix it really well and submerse the blank(s) on it, using a 2kg ice cream container, after a couple of days or so, take it out scraping the excess glue with your finger, put it to dry on top of a piece of plastic, never use newspaper or cardboard as that will soak all the glue out of the blank! It will take a little longer to dry, but no more than 2 weeks!

Another very important step to minimize the risks of loosing a fragile blank is, cut the square corners of the blank before you put it in the lathe, in this case it should be done carefully before is harden, saving you lots of solution, mainly the proper hardener that costs a fortune!

I'm not aware that a blank that has been harden, either buy the industrial hardeners or using PVA glue, creates any "negative reaction" to any of the traditional finish products. I understand that all this can create a little extra work but like as been said already in a previous post and I've been claiming it for long time, these stabilized, for the reason they had to be stabilized (harden), are capable to produce a finished product, not possible to be matched with anything else...!

So, good luck!

Cheers
George

 

[chrisk]

Very interesting. Thanks for all the info.

Can you tell us more about the hardeners?
Summarizing the above discussion, we have:
- Resinol 90c, Ultraseal... for the industrial hardeners
- 50% water-50% wood glue... for the low tech hardeners

What else? (Well... I don't mean... Nespresso but... wood hardeners... ).

Can we recognize the hardener used on stabilized blanks?
I recently received some stabilized blanks from the US. At the surface of the wood there is some kind of crystallized material (like crystallized sugar... ?). Can you tell me more about the hardener used?

Hope I don't abuse of your patience.

 

[rjwolfe3]

I recently received some stabilized blanks from the US. At the surface of the wood there is some kind of crystallized material (like crystallized sugar... ?). Can you tell me more about the hardener used?

More then likely that was a professional stabilization product. It also has a very distinct odor when working with it. I honestly don't know what the pros use but it works much better then the products I have used at home. My understanding is that they have some pretty heavy duty equipment that they use.

 

[robutacion]

Very interesting. Thanks for all the info.

Can you tell us more about the hardeners?
Summarizing the above discussion, we have:
- Resinol 90c, Ultraseal... for the industrial hardeners
- 50% water-50% wood glue... for the low tech hardeners

What else? (Well... I don't mean... Nespresso but... wood hardeners... ).

Can we recognize the hardener used on stabilized blanks?
I recently received some stabilized blanks from the US. At the surface of the wood there is some kind of crystallized material (like crystallized sugar... ?). Can you tell me more about the hardener used?

Hope I don't abuse of your patience.

Your questions aren't difficult to answer, the problem you have is that the blanks you purchased were probably done commercially in America using US products, I'm in Australia where I am not aware of anyone doing that sort of work in a commercial sense, the only option I have is to buy the wood hardener that is available here in most hardware stores, in this case a product made in Melbourne by a Company called Timbermate (ha, very convenient...!) and the product is called Earl's wood hardener. The product is normally available in a 250ml spray bottle at nearly $30 bucks and then the 1 litre plastic container for $69.00. The 1 gallon and 5 gallon and 44 gallon are available only by special order, which I'm waiting on prices...!

That type finish and appearance on the stabilized blanks you purchased (like crystallized sugar), is exactly how the product I use does to the blanks after being fully submersed overnight on my pressure pot. Is not the pressure pot that does it but the saturation of the product on the wood. I would like also to know what sort of product the guys in the US use on the commercial stabilization, for two reasons, first everyone I know those sending their blanks to be done commercially, have all tried to do it themselves and they got to the same conclusion as myself, there is, just too damn expensive...! the other reason is, if they can do it in a commercial way and still 1/4 of the price would cost for you and I to do it, I need to know what product they use, the cost price can only be a fraction of what I'm paying, and the product does work well!

OK, I may have some very soft wood to harden, but when you pour 1 x litre at $69 bucks into a 2kg ice cream container with 5 raws of 6 blanks each, all with the square corner cut out, an the liquid only reaches half way on the last raw at the pouring point, come back the next morning and the liquid is anywhere to be seen, actually just covering the first raw (bottom), you check the blanks and the last raws got half way "wet" on the surface, never had the chance to soak anything as the other underneath drunk all of it before they had time to "taste it" so, they need doing again, the next raw is about 70% and the bottom 3 are 100% so, whatever is left of the hardener in the container after all blanks are removed, is used to soak just enough that second raw from the top that was about 70%. So, 1 x litre gave me 24 fully harden blanks and the top 6 with about 20% done. When I got my second litre container (the last one available) a couple of days later, I manage to complete 60 full blanks in total, counting those from the first lot, as I believe I had a number of blanks that weren't as soft so, soaked a little less!

In all, $138 of hardener for 60 blanks, this represents $2.30 per blank only for the hardener, the blank was originally $1.00 equals $3.30 per blank without anything else, how much do the commercial guys charge for their labor and equipment? I don't know but I know is not free...! and they still make money?

These blanks are now ready for sale soon as I anticipated, I'm putting them for sale at exactly $3.30 each, how much does a normal stabilized blank sells for, in average?

Sorry, if you were expecting a short answer, I'm the wrong guy...!:biggrin:


Cheers
George

 

[chrisk]

Thanks to all of you for sharing. Have an excellent New Year's Eve.

 

[mel dunlap]

I do commercial stabilizing, and a Ca/blo finish is good, but not on all woods that are stabilized. Buckeye Burl stabilized with a blo finish can turn the Buckeye black in color. As far as too expensive, you may be buying your blanks at the wrong place. Feel free to pm or email me.

 

[robutacion]

I do commercial stabilizing, and a Ca/blo finish is good, but not on all woods that are stabilized. Buckeye Burl stabilized with a blo finish can turn the Buckeye black in color. As far as too expensive, you may be buying your blanks at the wrong place. Feel free to pm or email me.

Hi Mel,

Finally, someone that does it commercially...!:biggrin:

You probably could share some light on the issues raised and discussed here about stabilization, I don't really think that anyone is trying to take your business away, as we are all in different parts of this planet but you could maybe give us an idea of how its done in a commercial way and its advantages of end-up ruin the blanks using some product that shouldn't be used or will not accept the common type finishes!

Your collaboration on this would be appreciated!

Cheers
George

 

[fantasticalwoodworks]

I stabilize all my blanks that need it with the system sold by Turntex and have found my product to be every bit as good as the ones you can buy professionally done but you may find your inital investment not worth it to you if you only use a few blanks a month you might be better off buying them

 

[low_48]

I stabilize all my blanks that need it with the system sold by Turntex and have found my product to be every bit as good as the ones you can buy professionally done but you may find your inital investment not worth it to you if you only use a few blanks a month you might be better off buying them

Better check the date on this post Rod. You're replying to a 4 year old post. You "might" not get many replies from the original guys.

 

[robutacion]

I stabilize all my blanks that need it with the system sold by Turntex and have found my product to be every bit as good as the ones you can buy professionally done but you may find your inital investment not worth it to you if you only use a few blanks a month you might be better off buying them

Better check the date on this post Rod. You're replying to a 4 year old post. You "might" not get many replies from the original guys.

Yes, I was just going to point it out however I can tell you, its the easiest things to bring back or, all of a certain reply to a thread or post, some years old, it has happened to me a few times and I almost got caught with this one also.

The only thing that I can advise is that, there are many very recent threads, talking about this same issue and while I'm also a fair user of Curtis Cactus Juice, and I'm in Australia, the Cactus Juice was not even invented 4 years ago, I wish it had, as my posts on this old thread, shows well my frustration of not finding any "viable" product that I could use to stabilize my large volume of woods that needed desperately stabilization.

I'm glad that, you already had that problem solved when you come into the pen turning world and all its fast and crazy evolution, not only in the pen kits development but also in the explosion of pen blanks possibilities, with the introduction of casting...!

And yes, Cactus Juice is capable to produce any good results and any "commercial" wood stabilization company...!

Cheers
George

 

[low_48]

I joined the forum 5 years before you did. What do you mean here? When I started, wood was about the only way to go. Then guys started cutting up bowling balls and corn cobs.

"I'm glad that, you already had that problem solved when you come into the pen turning world and all its fast and crazy evolution, not only in the pen kits development but also in the explosion of pen blanks possibilities, with the introduction of casting...!"