Stabilization So much information makes me crazy

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T

Titus

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
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Spain
:confused:

I've read all the first page entries on this thread and It's driving me crazy. Please remember that I'm the most newbie you have never seen ...

As many of us, I'm short of money and I want to start stabilizing blanks without spending too much money. I'm pretty sure that I need a vacuum pump plus proper chamber. I've read many suggestions pointing to the fact that cheap solutions in the long run becomes expensive and I agree but I think that there is a mid point and this is my question.

I've a compressor for car wheels, I can have fridge compressor and I'm wondering if any of both device could be good to stab wood properly. What do you think?. Could you tell me the vacuum needed to stab? (bar, mmHG or similar)

Other point is the chamber, can I use a typical cook pot to stab my blanks?

A part of CJ, Is there any other 'material' to stab wood?

Thank you masters.
T
 
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Titus said:
:confused:

I've read all the first page entries on this thread and It's driving me crazy. Please remember that I'm the most newbie you have never seen ...

As many of us, I'm short of money and I want to start stabilizing blanks without spending too much money. I'm pretty sure that I need a vacuum pump plus proper chamber. I've read many suggestions pointing to the fact that cheap solutions in the long run becomes expensive and I agree but I think that there is a mid point and this is my question.

I've a compressor for car wheels, I can have fridge compressor and I'm wondering if any of both device could be good to stab wood properly. What do you think?. Could you tell me the vacuum needed to stab? (bar, mmHG or similar)

Other point is the chamber, can I use a typical cook pot to stab my blanks?

A part of CJ, Is there any other 'material' to stab wood?

Thank you masters.
T
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised by your reaction to all the information out there about wood stabilisation some of which may be contradictory so, don't panic, you can start stabilising wood sooner than you think, however, the most crucial information you will require is not so much in the equipment you need to use but, what you need to do to identify the woods that really do require stabilisation, how to prepare that wood to remove all its moisture before it touches the CJ or any other possible stabilising resin out there.

Let's start from the beginning and talk about what you need in relation to equipment.

A vacuum pump is absolutely crucial, (many possibilities), fridge compressor will never reach full vacuum.

The vacuum chamber can be made of many materials, the most common is the heavy duty stainless steel cooking pots (mine is 16lt capacity) with a 3/4" to 1" acrylic or glass lid, tempered glass when possible is better, and then a rubber seal that will depend on what you are using.

All the small stuff such as connectors, hose, vacuum gauge, etc., you will be able to find easily.

The maximum vacuum pressure at sea level is about -30 inHg

In our days, you can buy the complete set-up on eBay for $300 or thereabouts, Turntex will sell you also a complete chamber set up, you only require to buy/get the pump.

As for other products out there that can do the job of the Cactus Juice, I don't know of any, I import the stuff from the USA, I'm sure you can import it to Spain, I helped last year a young fellow from Brasil to get all his gear and CJ to start stabilising the woods for his knife handles, he had no issues getting the CJ into Brasil.

Every bit of information is important, some not as important as other, it won't take you long to work out it was all quite easy...!

Cheers
George
 
robutacion said:
Titus said:
:confused:

I've read all the first page entries on this thread and It's driving me crazy. Please remember that I'm the most newbie you have never seen ...

As many of us, I'm short of money and I want to start stabilizing blanks without spending too much money. I'm pretty sure that I need a vacuum pump plus proper chamber. I've read many suggestions pointing to the fact that cheap solutions in the long run becomes expensive and I agree but I think that there is a mid point and this is my question.

I've a compressor for car wheels, I can have fridge compressor and I'm wondering if any of both device could be good to stab wood properly. What do you think?. Could you tell me the vacuum needed to stab? (bar, mmHG or similar)

Other point is the chamber, can I use a typical cook pot to stab my blanks?

A part of CJ, Is there any other 'material' to stab wood?

Thank you masters.
T
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised by your reaction to all the information out there about wood stabilisation some of which may be contradictory so, don't panic, you can start stabilising wood sooner than you think, however, the most crucial information you will require is not so much in the equipment you need to use but, what you need to do to identify the woods that really do require stabilisation, how to prepare that wood to remove all its moisture before it touches the CJ or any other possible stabilising resin out there.

Let's start from the beginning and talk about what you need in relation to equipment.

A vacuum pump is absolutely crucial, (many possibilities), fridge compressor will never reach full vacuum.

The vacuum chamber can be made of many materials, the most common is the heavy duty stainless steel cooking pots (mine is 16lt capacity) with a 3/4" to 1" acrylic or glass lid, tempered glass when possible is better, and then a rubber seal that will depend on what you are using.

All the small stuff such as connectors, hose, vacuum gauge, etc., you will be able to find easily.

The maximum vacuum pressure at sea level is about -30 inHg

In our days, you can buy the complete set-up on eBay for $300 or thereabouts, Turntex will sell you also a complete chamber set up, you only require to buy/get the pump.

As for other products out there that can do the job of the Cactus Juice, I don't know of any, I import the stuff from the USA, I'm sure you can import it to Spain, I helped last year a young fellow from Brasil to get all his gear and CJ to start stabilising the woods for his knife handles, he had no issues getting the CJ into Brasil.

Every bit of information is important, some not as important as other, it won't take you long to work out it was all quite easy...!

Cheers
George
Click to expand...

Thank you, you calm my anxiety

I will continue reading and learning
 
jttheclockman said:
First let me say welcome to the site.

Next the pot is not a good idea.

Third I do not know about the compressor but the person who knows all about this stuff is Curtis Seebeck and here is his web site. I highly suggest you contact him and talk to him. He is the man when it comes to stabilizing.

https://www.turntex.com/
Click to expand...

I've visited that page a couple of times. When I realized that he doesn´t sell the complete equipment I decided to write my post.

My particular problem is money, assuming that Mesquiteman is the best and his products are the more appropiate to do what I want to do, the fact is that delivery is close to the same price than product and it's not good for my pocket. For this reason I came back to my initial idea of recycling.

In any case, thank you for your answer, I will not use the cook pot
Regards
T
 
PVC pipe can also be used to make a low cost chamber. I found clear PVC on eBay for mine but the white stuff will work if you make a clear lid. You want to be able to see the bubbles when you start. You want to start applying vacuum slowly at first so you don't create too much foam. You also want to be able to see when the bubbles slow or stop. If you are on a tight budget, you can get a manual brake bleeder hand pump that will get you 80-90% of the vacuum you will get with a pump. A decent vacuum pump can be found in the states for about $100 either China made new or better quality used. I bought from China (Harbor Freight) new and have had no problems after changing to a better pump oil. The vacuum pumps volume rating isn't important, just the amount of vacuum it pulls.

Drying the wood is critical and controlling the temperature when you cure the wood is too. A small toaster oven with an additional accurate thermometer will work for both.

Danny


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 
My thoughts on cost: A gallon (8 lbs) of cactus juice will run you about $90, this will stabilize about 100 blanks (my experience). Blanks will double in weight on average, therefore the finished weight cost is $6 per pound -- about 16 lbs of finished product. A professional service will stabilize your wood for $14 per pound finished weight. Therefore stabilizing 16lb of finished product will run you $224. Based on this alone, it is pretty clear that stabilizing a small quantity of wood yourself isn't going to be worth it. If you plan on going through a gallon or more Juice then I'd say give it a try. I like the hobby aspect, and the cost is about a wash for me.

Equipment - Here is what I use with approx cost:

Cheap vacuum pump off of amazon ($50) -- I actually already had this for a different project
Vacuum Pressure Gauge - oil filled ($10)
Pickle Jar vacuum chamber - (Free)
Fittings and hose for vac chamber - ($15)
Cheap Toaster Oven - ($25)
Thermometer - ($6)

Comments: the pickle jar works ok, but a clear PVC is probably better (taller and easier to weight the blanks). Get a toaster oven that will stay on indefinitely, many have a timer that will shut it off after a maximum time (you will need this to run for 24 hrs for drying).
 
More4dan said:
PVC pipe can also be used to make a low cost chamber. I found clear PVC on eBay for mine but the white stuff will work if you make a clear lid. You want to be able to see the bubbles when you start. You want to start applying vacuum slowly at first so you don't create too much foam. You also want to be able to see when the bubbles slow or stop. If you are on a tight budget, you can get a manual brake bleeder hand pump that will get you 80-90% of the vacuum you will get with a pump. A decent vacuum pump can be found in the states for about $100 either China made new or better quality used. I bought from China (Harbor Freight) new and have had no problems after changing to a better pump oil. The vacuum pumps volume rating isn't important, just the amount of vacuum it pulls.

Drying the wood is critical and controlling the temperature when you cure the wood is too. A small toaster oven with an additional accurate thermometer will work for both.

Danny


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
Click to expand...

Good to new over details, thank you very much.

About pump I'm looking in China ... let me see what I find

Regards
T
 
Dehn0045 said:
My thoughts on cost: A gallon (8 lbs) of cactus juice will run you about $90, this will stabilize about 100 blanks (my experience). Blanks will double in weight on average, therefore the finished weight cost is $6 per pound -- about 16 lbs of finished product. A professional service will stabilize your wood for $14 per pound finished weight. Therefore stabilizing 16lb of finished product will run you $224. Based on this alone, it is pretty clear that stabilizing a small quantity of wood yourself isn't going to be worth it. If you plan on going through a gallon or more Juice then I'd say give it a try. I like the hobby aspect, and the cost is about a wash for me.

Equipment - Here is what I use with approx cost:

Cheap vacuum pump off of amazon ($50) -- I actually already had this for a different project
Vacuum Pressure Gauge - oil filled ($10)
Pickle Jar vacuum chamber - (Free)
Fittings and hose for vac chamber - ($15)
Cheap Toaster Oven - ($25)
Thermometer - ($6)

Comments: the pickle jar works ok, but a clear PVC is probably better (taller and easier to weight the blanks). Get a toaster oven that will stay on indefinitely, many have a timer that will shut it off after a maximum time (you will need this to run for 24 hrs for drying).
Click to expand...


Thank you, I appreciate the details shared. Now I can't read deeply but I promise to do

Regards
T
 
Stabilizing wood: I started before there was CJ. I was overseas and didn't have access to a lot of things here in the USA. So, I used polyurethane, lacquer and a concoction of acrylic plastic devolved in acetone (a few people use this as a finish.)

The problems with polyurethane is that it is subject to undefinable results. It worked for me on a dozen or so blanks. It took a week or two in the summer for them to cure and they did fine. There were a few here that tried it and got fair results and at the same time a few people tried it and the blanks did not cure even after a month or so.

I tried lacquer just to try it and it did OK. I didn't try it any more after the first try. The lacquer that I had tended to make several colorful blanks "bleed" their color. Acetone acrylic can that too.

Way back as a kid in making balsa airplanes, I mixed white glue and water and coated the balsa to give it strength. For some reason in reading what Cactus Juice is, it reminds me of that white glue & water mixture.

When you don't have, or you are out on the cutting edge before a product is developed, one tries all kinds of things. The experience is educational . . . and "usually" fun. :rolleyes: :biggrin:
 
Welcome. I am also a newbie. Not sure what the equivalent to Craigslist or ebay is where you are but I was able to find what I needed in the used classifieds. Got a cheap used toaster oven from a local thrift store for $10. Yes, make sure it can be used without the timer shutting it off.

You have to consider the "pain in the a**" factor when piecing stuff together. I am the first one to build (and enjoy building) jigs and DIY solutions but some things are better done with the stuff purposed for that job. You need Cactus Juice, and a good (used) vacuum pump and a container. I got both for under $100 total from Craigslist. I tried using the mason jar route with a little pump but it seemed more trouble that it was worth.
 
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