Snake casting question

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theidlemind

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Joined
Mar 13, 2010
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506
Location
Berea, Kentucky 40403
I've cast snake skins 3 times now and the first time was the best results.
This last time I did better with bubbles but it seems like the polyester resin didn't stick to the skin very well.
I could insert a bushing and actually see the resin separate from the skin.
I did scrape the clear scales off.
Should I have coated with thin CA before casting?

Next question, I just picked up a small air compressor for casting, what pressure chamber is recommended for casting with resin saver molds?
Suggestions very much appreciated.

Thanks,
David
 
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In my casting experience without pressure, I would say the resin savers are your problem. I still would not guarantee you success with the pot unless you have a way to plug the ends better. I have been using PtownSubbie's molds by pre-heating the molds and pre-heating the resin and am having flawless success! Just my .02 worth
 
I'd be interested in this answer, too. :confused:

You mention the resin not sticking to the scales (not sure why this would
be mold related, previous answer notwithstanding) This is a problem
others have had with snake skins before. You might check the library for
Don Ward's tutorial on casting, he does snake skin all the time with great
results.

As for pressure, you don't want to go very high at all with silicone molds.
It compresses the silicone and causes it to distort the mold shape.
You want just enough pressure to keep any gasses in suspension. Usually
20-25 psi works well, but if the resin and molds are warmed beforehand
and you take reasonable care not to stir air into your mix, the bubbles
shouldn't be a problem.
 
This last time I did better with bubbles but it seems like the polyester resin didn't stick to the skin very well.
Be sure the skins are clean and free of any tanning residue. This is very important. Use raw PR and paint onto the skins once they are glued to the tubes. Give the PR time to soak in and totally wet the skins.

You may experiment with placing a layer of CA on the skins. I use CA on the skins most every time. Remove the scale covers prior to gluing onto the tubes.

Next question, I just picked up a small air compressor for casting, what pressure chamber is recommended for casting with resin saver molds?
Suggestions very much appreciated.
The type of pressure chamber is not an issue as long as it is safe and reliable. Do not use a pressure cooker!!! Most of us use the pressure type paint tanks The amount of pressure needed is in the 20-25 psi range for air/bubble control. More is not better and does not help. Contrary to popular belief, the pressure does not squeeze the bubble's size so small that they are not seen. The pressure just keeps dissolved air in solution so it doesn't escape and produce bubbles. Enough pressure to keep the air in solution is all that is needed...20-25psi. I no longer use pressure to cast. I do heat the resin, use an ultrasonic cleaner as outlined in several other threads, heat the mold, and mix and pour with care.

Do not attempt to remove the the blanks from the mold until the PR is totally cured and rigid. I don't even touch the molds once poured until I'm sure they are totally cured. If the mold bends while the PR is still soft the blank may also bend...the tube does not...and separation can happen.
Good luck with your casting.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 
I use Resin Saver molds all the time for doing snake skin casting. And havent had problems with the molds. I have had operator error, but nothing that can be mold related issues.

I follow Don Wards steps.... He did a demo at a chapter meeting. Great info!!

I don't use pressure while doing snake skin casting. I do use my resin saver molds and pressure with other things. I never use more than 20 psi in my pressure pot and have no bubble issues. Again I never use more than 20 psi, does not matter what I am casting!

I am not saying what others do is wrong, I think its just over the top.
 
I'd be interested in this answer, too. :confused:


My apologies for such a vague answer. My experience with the molds that have the nipples that stick into the tubes is this: It appears to me as though the ends of the tube are not completely plugged. Well, they are, just not tight enough to prevent any air from escaping. This is by no means a "Knock" on Charlie's molds, but merely a comment that they do not work for me. I have invested tons of time trying to figure out the best method of casting my snakeskin blanks, and have just recently done so. I have tried to use syringes to suck the air out of the tubes, plugging with play-doh, packing with BB's, using corks and applying CA where the tube meets the cork. It feels as though i have tried everything. So back to the question, in my trials with (for lack of a better word)nipple molds, air has escaped and traveled along the skins causing the silvery, or trapped air appearance. Now, not everytime was the air that escaped that bad, but in my book, it is still not acceptable to use as a blank. So I changed to a different plugging method and mold design and began pre-heating the molds and the resin and the results are astonishing! Maybe I just dont fully understand the proper way of utilizing the resin saver molds. Anyway, I will reiterate that this is no way a Knock or discouragement to buy these molds, but merely an opinion of choice with regards to casting methods. I hope that I have in no way, offended anyone's technique or products.:rolleyes:
 
My apologies for such a vague answer. My experience with the molds that have the nipples that stick into the tubes is this: It appears to me as though the ends of the tube are not completely plugged. Well, they are, just not tight enough to prevent any air from escaping. This is by no means a "Knock" on Charlie's molds, but merely a comment that they do not work for me. I have invested tons of time trying to figure out the best method of casting my snakeskin blanks, and have just recently done so. I have tried to use syringes to suck the air out of the tubes, plugging with play-doh, packing with BB's, using corks and applying CA where the tube meets the cork. It feels as though i have tried everything. So back to the question, in my trials with (for lack of a better word)nipple molds, air has escaped and traveled along the skins causing the silvery, or trapped air appearance. Now, not everytime was the air that escaped that bad, but in my book, it is still not acceptable to use as a blank. So I changed to a different plugging method and mold design and began pre-heating the molds and the resin and the results are astonishing! Maybe I just dont fully understand the proper way of utilizing the resin saver molds. Anyway, I will reiterate that this is no way a Knock or discouragement to buy these molds, but merely an opinion of choice with regards to casting methods. I hope that I have in no way, offended anyone's technique or products.:rolleyes:

Not so much offended as concerned.. and bubbles have plagued casters
(of pretty much anything, not just resin or pen parts) forever. But I
haven't had the problems you describe, or not the way you describe them.

The stoppers (nipples) are oversized slightly to fit tight. In fact, too tight
is bad, because they can get cut on sharp tube edges. That hides resin,
which cures and in turn, traps the cut silicone. So the silicone can tear
when you de-mold. So I had to be careful not to make them TOO tight.
But no way should they be undersized.

I'm not sure why air should escape at all.. you don't want to suck the air
out of the tubes, nor do you want to pressurize to the point where you
are putting pressure on the stoppers. The pressure inside and outside of
the tubes should be the same, whether it is vacuum (not recommended)
or pressurized. (should be low pressure) but MOST IMPORTANT is that
this pressure should NEVER CHANGE while the resin is in the liquid state.

Once the resin is poured, the pressure inside and outside of the tubes
is equalized. If you pressurize to high, you force resin into the tubes. If
you pull a vacuum, you will draw the air out of the tubes and through the
resin. But, if the pressure changes, you reverse this process.. except that
the tubes are now under the liquid. So if you lose even a tiny bit of vacuum
that space inside the tubes will be replaced with resin. And if you lose
pressure you will draw air back out of the tubes.

My experience with the silvery shimmer was that a couple of things can
cause it. One is the material. Paper, skins and such .. they hold air. LOTS
of air. This air likes to come out when the resin gets nice and warm. But
that's not where I had the most problem.. it was that I was trying to turn
the blanks too soon.

Resin that is hardened but not fully cured is still pliable. A little soft, a little
rubbery .. and you put it on a lathe and make it spin fast. Then you put
a sharp tool up to it, and the lathe is trying to make it go while your tool
is trying to make it stop. That torque will give you the silvery shimmer.
It twists the resin like a piece of licorice .. and it separates the resin from
the tube. Not very much, it's just a little. But the silvery part is an air space.
Out of habit now, I just demold and put them aside for a day or so.

As for pre-heating the resin and the molds.. I'm all for that. I always do
both. It just makes everything go smoother. Bubbles don't stay in the
resin, they rise to the top. And there's less of them. Plus everything sets
up much faster.
anyway, I got long winded here.
If you're having trouble with the ResinSavers leaking, take a look at the
stoppers and see if they're damaged. If they get cut or torn, you'll have
trouble. They can be repaired. But if you've had this trouble all along, then
get them back to me so I can see what's going on. I made them and I'll
stand behind them. the trouble you're describing shouldn't be related to
the mold but if it is, let me correct it.
These molds have evolved because of feedback from users. (trust me..
you wouldn't believe what the first one looked like..) If there are problems
that can be solved it makes no sense to keep making them 'wrong' ..
 
Wow. Young Grasshopper has much to learn about casting.
Thank you Masters. :bulgy-eyes:

I had read the tutorial by Virgil but should have re-read it before starting.
You guys have covered every problem I had with this batch and have given me hope again. I cast some money blanks and a perfect watch parts blank (pictures soon) under the same conditions as the snakes and they turned out beautiful.

What I have learned from reading the answers to this post is that you guys are deep into the theory of casting as well as having lots of seat time. I'm not giving up, love the snakeskin blanks and casting in general.

Thank you ALL for the great replies and I will try again later.

David.........
 
David another consideration for molds is from Thepenwizard.com

I can tell you these molds work, simple process excellent idea, great pr saver no drilling require. I have casted many pens from these molds including fish skins, real rose flower petals, snake skin, abalone shells, and pr mixed with various ink pigments. Now I don't use any pressure pots or vaccum systems at all, and i will say no air bubbles at ALL!!! the trick is warm PR warm Molds,and don't stir your mix to hard, and pour very slowly in one corner and I repeat slowly & in one corner only.
So if you want to make casting without pressure pots, take my advice and try a MYSTICAL MOLDS FROM www.thepenwizard.com mention IAP when ordering and receive %10 discount. This is my opinion with my own experiance with thepenwizard molds. Good Luck in Casting !!!
 
Use raw PR and paint onto the skins once they are glued to the tubes. Give the PR time to soak in and totally wet the skins.

You may experiment with placing a layer of CA on the skins. I use CA on the skins most every time. Remove the scale covers prior to gluing onto the tubes.

Do you use both CA and raw PR? Do you soak the skins with CA first then paint them with raw PR?
 
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(1) I have coated the skins with uncatalyzed PR and let it soak in to displace any air in the skin prior to casting.

(2) I have coated the skins with catalyzed PR and let it cure before casting.

(3) I have coated the skins witn thin CA and a short blast of aerosol accelerator and then into the oven in the mold at 150 for about 8 minutes.

(4) I have done nothing to the skins prior to casting.

(5) I have done nothing to the skins prior to casting and also putting the tubes with skins glued into the mold and then into the oven for 8 minutes at 15o.

I have had excellent results with all 5 and I have had excellent failures with all 5. Currently I use #3 almost exclusively and #5 the rest of the time. I seem to get best results with#3.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

Use raw PR and paint onto the skins once they are glued to the tubes. Give the PR time to soak in and totally wet the skins.

You may experiment with placing a layer of CA on the skins. I use CA on the skins most every time. Remove the scale covers prior to gluing onto the tubes.

Do you use both CA and raw PR? Do you soak the skins with CA first then paint them with raw PR?
 
Also, I was wondering if you necessarily HAVE to use tanned skins. Could you use skins that have just been stretched and dried? For example, skins that a bowyer would use to back a wood bow. I've read that they can also have issues with chemicals reacting with the glues that are used to apply the skin to the back of the bow, so some will just use skins that have just been stretched and dried. I'm thinking the major problem would be skins that are too brittle to glue to the tubes, but unless they've been dried with a lot of salt, they should have about as much flexibility as paper.
 
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Don't know. The ones I (and others) use are soft tanned. I have tried to wrap a dried skin around a tube and it wasn't successful. The skin was stiff...almost like parchment paper.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Also, I was wondering if you necessarily HAVE to use tanned skins. Could you use skins that have just been stretched and dried? For example, skins that a bowyer would use to back a wood bow.
 
I like dried skins, but they have to be thin. i get small skins because they're thinner and also have tighter scale patterns. I've used Ptownsubbies molds as well as Charlies resinsavers, both with amazing success:)
I've never been able to blame a bad blank on either of the molds, only myself
 
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