Selecting a Metal Engraving Laser

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NJturner

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I am trying to decide on the next fancy tool for my shop and a metal engraving laser is in the running. I think having this ability in the creation of my pens would be a benefit, but the cost is pretty high. Debating on a standard laser for engraving the body of the pen or the containers but like the idea of being able to engrave the nib or clip. Xtool seems to make one for both, but the cost is very high for my budget. Anyone else see anything of interest?

Kevin
 
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This thread spawned from a conversation on one of my posts which is why I'm jumping in with a lot of words :)

So let's get down to the meat of this. This is going to be a lot of information dump but some of it is critical to answering your question.

For those who don't know, not only do I own F3 Pens (Fisher of Pens before that) but I also have an engraving business and run The Tinkerverse on YouTube doing laser reviews, software training, etc... so I have a fair bit of knowledge and experience in this realm. That said, my opinions are just that, opinions. They are not always popular but I do try to be fair.

There is likely only one type of laser on the market that will be a jack of all trades for pen makers. That's a UV laser. Unfortunately they also have the highest cost of entry into the laser world by far so I'll skip them for now.

Fiber / IR (1064nm)

Fiber lasers which are IR lasers in the 1064nm wavelength and a typically a galvo head (there are gantry options as well) are great for metal engraving on "most" metals. What you can do with them depends entirely on the type of laser source, the most common in our budget being Raycus or JPT. JPT is your Mopa lasers that will allow you to vary q-pulse and have a larger frequency range allowing a much wider variety of engraving options, colors, depth, power, etc... but again they come at a cost. Your typical 2w to 20w or 30w IR laser is usually Raycus so right off the bat it's capable but not as capable as it's more expensive kin.

Fiber lasers are best suited for metal but they will also work for dark opaque acrylics, leather, paper, circuit boards and occasionally you can get a burn on wood and some plastics. I'm sure there are more but this is the most common materials. I will tell you from lots of experimenting, your typical fiber laser won't mark a resin based pen body and if it does it's a very rare instance. I've been able to mark maybe one mix in my blank stash while others just pretty much ignore the laser.

CO2

Next up is CO2. CO2 is a very versatile laser. It will cut and engrave a huge variety of material, but not metal. You can get around this with an intermediary layer like a metal marking spray that will react with the laser and surface mark metal but it won't engrave metal. I have used CO2 heavily for engraving wood, Alumilite and acrylic pen bodies and if you get the settings dialed in you'll get reasonable results, but on plastics it will always have that melted appearance when viewed up close. So it's not even close to being as clean and crisp as a mechanical engraving for example.

Diode

Blue light (455nm +/-) Diode lasers are the entry point for most. They're inexpensive and fairly capable for a lot of crafts. They can engrave and cut a wide variety of opaque materials, wood and will even surface mark some metals. However as you move into materials that are transparent or as your material gets closer in color to the wavelength of the diode, the more it will reject the laser to the point where it won't even register on many colors. If you work mostly in wood, a diode laser is actually a pretty good choice, however if you use a lot of acrylics then diode won't be the answer for you.

So as you can see, there is not really a single laser technology that can do it all...

Where am I going with this?

(Full disclosure, I own an XTool P2 CO2 Laser)

Now along comes companies like XTool who start combining different laser types into a single machine. They saw a niche, came up with a relatively capable machine and went on a marketing campaign that would put most major brands to shame. Unfortunately that marketing campaign carries a hefty price tag and it's reflected in their machines. XTool is a marketing / hype company with reasonable hardware. For what you get, it's generally accepted that their machines are anywhere from 20-40% overpriced. True they have some neat features and they're starting to improve, however they're also closing themselves off from the market and locking you so tight into their ecosystem that it will cost you more to buy another manufacturers product as a supplement than to buy their next machine. It's a slick move on their part for the general population but leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

As a long time advocate and online instructor of LightBurn, which is the most popular and capable laser software on the market, XTool has gone out of their way to lock their machines down by using closed hardware systems and non-standard g-code controls that if forces you to use their Xtool Creative Space (XCS) software. That in itself isn't the rub, it's that they advertise as being LightBurn compatible which is only about 50% true. LB can control the most basic features but if you want to be able to focus the laser, or use the camera, or rotary, or 3d engraving, you have to use XCS. So claiming LightBurn compatibility but not having it for the features that actually make your machines decent is extremely misleading.

I'm sure the last 2 paragraphs come off as biased, and they are, but they are also based in fact. I'm not saying that those who own XTool have a piece of junk, far from it, I'm just saying that dollar for dollar there are other choices to consider.


I have plenty more I can share but I have a work meeting in a few minutes and wanted to get my initial thoughts out.
 
Last thing I'll throw in for now...

The F1 and F1 ultra aren't bad machines and in the grand scheme of things they're not a bad choice for pen makers. But don't expect them to be able to do everything you throw at them and know you're being locked into the XCS ecosystem and paying for their marketing campaigns.
 
Thank you for this information. I really appreciate this discussion.

Do you know how the xtool compares in quality output compared to say something like the Laserpecker 3 or a ComMarker B4 which could be several hundreds cheaper than the Xtool?

I am engraving finials, nibs, clips and rings on a small scale and have no desire to do more than that.

Thank you!
 
Wow. Thanks for the information Carl. I have a 10w Sculptfun and I really enjoy it. It does have several limitations. I've thought about upgrading and your reply is a great help. My buddy has an X Tool and after reading your reply I'm reluctant to look into those. The laser I have does great on woods and antlers but acrylics are hit and miss and metal is out of the question. For those that don't have a laser at all it really opened up a new world to my woodworking.
 
Wow. Thanks for the information Carl. I have a 10w Sculptfun and I really enjoy it. It does have several limitations. I've thought about upgrading and your reply is a great help. My buddy has an X Tool and after reading your reply I'm reluctant to look into those. The laser I have does great on woods and antlers but acrylics are hit and miss and metal is out of the question. For those that don't have a laser at all it really opened up a new world to my woodworking.

You don't have to be reluctant, just know that you're stepping into a product that will require you to have multiple workflows if you're already familiar with your Sculpfun. XCS is capable but clunky if you're used to a much more streamlined software like LightBurn. But what you can do to get around that to use your preferred design tool (Lightburn, Illustrator, Inkscape, Affinity) and export to SVG then import into XCS to just setup your job and run it.

Do you know how the xtool compares in quality output compared to say something like the Laserpecker 3 or a ComMarker B4 which could be several hundreds cheaper than the Xtool?

I've seen reviews biased both ways. The LP4 for example is the direct competition for the F1. They're both 2w IR and 10w Diode so in theory with all else being equal they should be very comparable machines. Now if you move to the F1 Ultra or LP5, you get a 20w IR which puts them in competition with the likes of the B4 and many other 20w dedicated fiber lasers but also retains the 20w Diode so it's much more and capable.

To be fair, LaserPecker actually does not claim LightBurn compatibility either, but they do have a support page showing you how to use it with LB so there really isn't a gain/loss factor to consider there. I personally have not used LaserPecker products so I can't speak from a place of hands-on knowledge but more what I see reflected from other users.

The xTool does add some nice-to-have features like the conveyer system for example and if those extras are important to you, then sure xTool may be a good choice.

Don't be afraid of the xTool, just know that you're going to slightly overpay, especially if you start to add the accessories and that you'll have to either live the XCS software or adapt your existing workflow to include it.

I'm trying to remove my personal bias.
 
or a ComMarker B4

I have a ComMarker B4 and actually love it, but I also am aware of it's limitations. I can't do major deep engraving just because it's on the lower end of the power scale and it's not MOPA so I can't replicate the full color spectrum easily (no q-pulse adjustment and much narrower frequency range). I get depth, just not super deep like the high power ones can if you wanted to venture into something like coin making or 3d relief engraving.
 
I have a ComMarker B4 and actually love it, but I also am aware of it's limitations. I can't do major deep engraving just because it's on the lower end of the power scale and it's not MOPA so I can't replicate the full color spectrum easily (no q-pulse adjustment and much narrower frequency range). I get depth, just not super deep like the high power ones can if you wanted to venture into something like coin making or 3d relief engraving.
Does the Xtool machine do finial coin making and get some depth in sterling silver or brass?

Thanks again for the information.
 
Does the Xtool machine do finial coin making and get some depth in sterling silver or brass?
Not any more or less than the B4 would. Essentially the same laser source and power so at that point the difference is down to the mirror system and mechanical bits as to how well it performs.

I do finials in 304 stainless and they're fine. Brass and silver should be easy but I know copper is problematic for low power machines.

The main benefit to the F1 is if you want the diode in the same package which can be useful for specific use cases. Engrave with fiber and cut with diode (non-metal) without moving a part for example.
 
Carl, I can't thank you enough for your thoughts and comments! was a GREAT help!! Hoping this will begin more discussion as you presented a lot of info. I am an ex software person and understand the value of an open system, so am leaning more towards products that support that, as it helps keep it more resilient as manufacturers change directions. Since I am looking more to doing smaller work like we find on pens, I am also considering the resolution of the laser and all so far seem to be acceptable through various mirror or focusing systems.

Your comments on surface versus deep engraving were very interesting. I had not thought about that as much, but I think it must be a consideration.

Obviously, time for more research, as this is a big expense for me! THANK YOU again!!
 
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