Segmenting question for the masses

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jttheclockman

jttheclockman

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Now that the Bash is over and the segmenting contest is done I have a question that not sure it can be answered but maybe gives me a little insight. Not going to explain the reason for the question but just wanted to throw it out there. Now all should be able to answer. It is an opinion question so no right or wrong answer. But taking the pulse here. What type of segmented pens do you like to see and with what type of elements??
Do you prefer to see pens with stripes, dots,scallops,pickguard material, metals,woods, acrylics, gisi style, diamonds, circles, sqiggly lines, knots, trim rings, plain band rings, chevrons, and or a combination of a few or many elements?? Now I know the design of the pen plays a huge role but so do the elements that go into making it up. Is there such a thing as too many elements in a design?? Is more or less something you rather see??

Now just like everyone has their preference as to what type pens they like to see such as wood, acrylic, cast, segmented, clay, fountain, rollerball, ballpoint and many others, mine happens to be segmented pens and thus the question as to what gets people excited when they see a segmented pen. Thanks for taking the time to answer. As I said no right or wrong answer and is just a survey for my future pen making.

One last question, is there something you would love to see that has not been done that you know of and think would make a cool pen blank. remember we are talking segmenting.
 
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John

This is my opinion, and others almost certainly will disagree. That's normal, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

While I recognize the skill involved in segmenting, and I have made a few segmented pens, my preference is for simplicity rather than unnecessary complication. Wood is beautiful, and I prefer to celebrate the natural beauty of the timber rather that confuse things with segmenting.
 
John, my only criteria or how I judge any segmented item is accuracy. I much prefer a simple but excellently made item over an OTT one, even if the OTT one is well made. I really don't like to see scallops or crosses that aren't spot on.
I really admire the effort and often the stunning accuracy of the chevron styles, but the tiniest flaw ruins it for me. I'd like to see more curvy segmenting. But with patterned curves rather than random.

One of my own wishes is to make a pool cue design with not only both contrasting colours coming to complete points (like I've already done) but to add a thin metal between them. Once I conquered that, I'd like to try the same but with matching curvy points....
But ........😏
 
Personally I do not have a preference regarding segmenting elements but I do think that too many elements can fight each other for attention and detract from the overall appeal of the blank. Simple caps can be plenty if they bookend a beautiful figured wood.

I appreciate the elements that require a high degree of precision such as diamonds (at degrees other than 90) - well above my current abilities. To me, they are all difficult in some way. Horizontal lines seem easy until you drill off center. I like those designs that incorporate metals like aluminum because they usually look great and I know from many past failures how difficult they can be to drill, no less turn. Some of the jigs that are being shared are helping folks like me immensely.
 
skiprat said:
John, my only criteria or how I judge any segmented item is accuracy. I much prefer a simple but excellently made item over an OTT one, even if the OTT one is well made. I really don't like to see scallops or crosses that aren't spot on.
I really admire the effort and often the stunning accuracy of the chevron styles, but the tiniest flaw ruins it for me. I'd like to see more curvy segmenting. But with patterned curves rather than random.

One of my own wishes is to make a pool cue design with not only both contrasting colours coming to complete points (like I've already done) but to add a thin metal between them. Once I conquered that, I'd like to try the same but with matching curvy points....
But ........😏
Click to expand...

Not sure what OTT means, as you used it.

Tried to do a search for its meaning. . Among other things ( including "Over The Top" which I kinda guessed anyway ) I got this puzzling thing ...

  • OTT devices: Any device that is not desktop, laptop, or mobile but is used to consume OTT content. Examples include Smart TVs, Apple TVs, Chromecast, PlayStation, Xbox, Amazon Fire sticks, and other streaming devices.

SO I AM STILL PUZZLED about the meaning of OTT. . Please clarify, if you don't mind.
 
Ok Mal, for instance I think some of the Gisi style copies can be over the top. Too much going on and sometimes the segments seem to just come randomly from an off cut bucket rather than actually selected to complement each other.
Also a pen with a 'loud' kit shouldn't be matched with a loud segmented blank and vice versa. In my humble opinion...😊....the Gisi's mostly got away with it because they obviously selected each piece to work with it's neighbours.
 
Like Skiprat, I admire simplicity and perfection.

I don't have the skills or the advanced tooling to achieve perfection, so I stick with simplicity.

But the perfection I have seen on the part of others has been truly stunning !!

I also very much like a random approach to segmentation.
Some of my favorite segmented blanks have the components "arranged" at random !!
This approach to segmentation is hard to specify or prescribe, but I know it when I see it and that's what I mainly go for.
Especially, if and when I purchase segmented blanks.

Yes, I recognize that "random segmentation" can seem self contradictory !!

And then add to that "perfection in random segmentation" !! . . . Yes, my mind is boggled by that !!!!!
 
I too completely agree with Louie. Also, as one who exhibits pen at A&C shows I have to take intccount whether or not patron are looking for high end, expensive pens. I would say the answer is not so much for the venues where I set up my tent. I do like simple segmenting. It adds value without taking the price out of the range of customers looking for a nice pen to give as a gift.

Larry
 
Precision is very important with segmenting. With something that small you have to be spot on or is shows. My personal taste goes to something beyond simple but stops short of looking like it was built out of strips of veneer.
 
I agree first with Stephen on accuracy and precision.

I can handle the Gisi type if they are not heavy on colors competing for attention in the midst of that type of design.

Stripes: I made my first and it was perfect; the next 6 were off by a minuscule amount. I got lucky and hit a home run on the first strike. 😳 Stripes and Celtic knots have to be precise or it shows (to me).
 
Now I get the precision thing but you have to remember we are making hand made items and not computer generated pens. I have never made and never will make that perfect pen in my life time. First I use wood tools not cnc machines or even a metal lathe. I do not use lasers. I never made a scrollsawn item that was perfect either and have made thousands. My human hands are doing the work. Now yes we are assisted with tools that cut straight and and drill straight. I do agree that at least we can not see said errors makes a difference for sure. Lining up stripes and angled pieces for chevrons is daunting but is possible. Drilling for dots can be tricky because even those new jigs showing up here are no wheres near perfect because a drill bit can wander and no jig will stop this. I am bringing these points out because a few people have mention precision and yes it is a factor but only one.
 
I personally was not talking (writing) about CNC or laser or computer generated, but hand made with saws and lathes. And yes, perfections and precision is attainable if one is persistent and obsessive with details.
 
leehljp said:
I personally was not talking (writing) about CNC or laser or computer generated, but hand made with saws and lathes. And yes, perfections and precision is attainable if one is persistent and obsessive with details.
Click to expand...
Better man that I am Hank. :) :)
 
jttheclockman said:
What type of segmented pens do you like to see and with what type of elements??
Click to expand...
That's an interesting question, John.
I like to see mainly two types of segmented pens.
I like simple segmented pens that show off timber at its best, usually with a main central piece and different timber at the ends with dividers.
There is a skill matching the timbers to the kit and plating.
Secondly I enjoy seeing well designed segmented pens. I like symmetry, and attention to detail, eg @mark james chevron pens.
Use of different materials for dividers, eg, metals I like. Good examples would be the pens which came first and second in last february's segmented competition made by @KenB259 and @Aces-High. These were pens demanding skill and patience.

When I open my case of pens almost everyone makes for the segmented pens, rather than all timber ones. I rarely turn acrylic.

Segmenting vastly improves a plainish piece of timber and is a great way to use all those wee off-cuts. What else would you do with them?

I find now that I don't make too many pens but my interest is in coming up with different designs and seeing how to actually make them.
Take care John.

Alan
 
That's almost an unanswerable question. I appreciate precision. I cringe a little when I see pens posted that are quite complex yet not precise. I love seeing and developing new designs. One design I absolutely do not like is the herringbone design. Why, who knows, it just do anything for me. Very simple segments to me are not all that interesting. Anyone can glue two segments together cut at an angle. Not saying they look bad and honestly it's probably where most segmenters start. But you asked what I like to see. I like to see designs that make me scratch my head figuring out how that's done. I see very few new designs. Our canvas is small and very limited, yet once in awhile something new pops up. I don't like pens that have multiple design elements. I've seen pens with Celtic knots, stripes, scallops, all on one pen, it's like wearing a plaid shirt with plaid pants, just too much. Celtic knot pens are another issue. I like them, I've made a lot of them. If they are not precise, they are an eyesore. The six sided knot, I don't like, again why, who knows, I just don't like them. Colors, materials, pen kit, it all matters. I think the best answer for me is, I just know I like something when I see it and vice versa . I might love a design, you might hate it.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 
Thanks everyone for your responses. Hopefully others will take these suggestions too and come join us in the segmenting world. To me this is where you can be so creative and really does not need fancy equipment. yes jigs definitely help for the accuracy thing but usually are easy to make and many examples have been shown here. I am working on a few pens that I will be showing at the end of March if I can get most of them finished. There is a and I should not say a new design but one I have not seen here so it may interest a few. There are different patterns that can be drawn from this and it is very easy to do and when seen easy to see how it was done. Probably will not get into the chevron patterns in this group because working on various medium designs. Just too much to get done before I have to shut the shop down and start working on the house again. I have an idea something what Skip has suggested but taken a little further. I have ordered the pen kits but will have to put those on hold too. May make one of the laser cut inlay ones I bought and see how those pool cue kits go together. Thanks again.
 
To me, part of mastering segmenting work IS in the creation of jigs to create accurate and repeatable cuts. It's no less hand made if you made the tooling to accomplish the task. You just took the time to improve on your skillset.
 
Carl Fisher said:
To me, part of mastering segmenting work IS in the creation of jigs to create accurate and repeatable cuts. It's no less hand made if you made the tooling to accomplish the task. You just took the time to improve on your skillset.
Click to expand...
That is for sure, jigs take the precision up tp a new level. That's why I like segmenting, the problem solving side of it, keeps me interested.
 
jttheclockman said:
Now that the Bash is over and the segmenting contest is done I have a question that not sure it can be answered but maybe gives me a little insight. Not going to explain the reason for the question but just wanted to throw it out there. Now all should be able to answer. It is an opinion question so no right or wrong answer. But taking the pulse here. What type of segmented pens do you like to see and with what type of elements??
Do you prefer to see pens with stripes, dots,scallops,pickguard material, metals,woods, acrylics, gisi style, diamonds, circles, sqiggly lines, knots, trim rings, plain band rings, chevrons, and or a combination of a few or many elements?? Now I know the design of the pen plays a huge role but so do the elements that go into making it up. Is there such a thing as too many elements in a design?? Is more or less something you rather see??

Now just like everyone has their preference as to what type pens they like to see such as wood, acrylic, cast, segmented, clay, fountain, rollerball, ballpoint and many others, mine happens to be segmented pens and thus the question as to what gets people excited when they see a segmented pen. Thanks for taking the time to answer. As I said no right or wrong answer and is just a survey for my future pen making.

One last question, is there something you would love to see that has not been done that you know of and think would make a cool pen blank. remember we are talking segmenting.
Click to expand...
I have turned into a simplicity nut. I like woods that are already beautiful to begin with, so I know I can't compete with beautiful grains so simply adding an accent to what is already naturally beautiful. I mostly keep my segmenting simple and elegant..
 
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