Woodchipper
Member
I have a Ryobi BT3000 TS. It has no miter slots for the usual design for a DIY sled. It does have a sliding miter assembly but it's not accurate, IMHO. Suggestions?
Segmenting on my saw?
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mark james
IAP Collection, Curator
A motor, a table top, a saw blade. All can be tweaked to do what you want/need. The question is, is what you have starting out with really worth the effort and will the final result be acceptable.
It would be a fun project I'm sure (I might even do it in the same circumstances), but for detailed segmenting a stretch; for more nice but basic segmenting it just might do you fine.
A few months back my Bosch disk sander died, and I replaced it with a 12" from Harbor Freight. I did need to do a few tweaks (all were mentioned and I was aware of before purchase), but this is a beast of a disk sander. I think with a coupon and on sale over Memorial day is was about $35.00. It will do just fine!
It would be a fun project I'm sure (I might even do it in the same circumstances), but for detailed segmenting a stretch; for more nice but basic segmenting it just might do you fine.
A few months back my Bosch disk sander died, and I replaced it with a 12" from Harbor Freight. I did need to do a few tweaks (all were mentioned and I was aware of before purchase), but this is a beast of a disk sander. I think with a coupon and on sale over Memorial day is was about $35.00. It will do just fine!
leehljp
Member Liaison
Here is the forum that started out as a BT3000/3100 Forum back in 2003 from the original Ryobi BT3000 forum:
Aluminum Miter slot table can be purchased a few places, and miter slots in plywood panels can be added. Not uncommon. I have a miter slot table on mine. A few people purchased two MS tables and placed one on each side of the blade table. And a few people added a 3/4" plywood table about 6 inches wide on each side and did a dado for a MS track. it is customizable.
I have 1 and 1/2 of the saw. I have a 3000 that I had overseas and brought back to the states with me, and I had a 3100 over here. I gave the 3000 to a son in law and kept the 3100. I have had the 3000 for 19 years and the 3100 for 17 years. Oh, the 1/2 saw - parts from a saw I found outside in a junk pile back in 2004 in Japan. I still have the parts, including the motor and they still work well.
Some people have had problems with them staying tuned (accurate) but I haven't. I have registration squares that I measure against the blade and with the sliding miter table on occasion, and it stays true for me. I had a fellow once asked me as I put the fence on if I was going to check the accuracy of the fence before ripping his few 2x4s. I said I don't have to. He said - It is customary to always check. I put the long leg of a carpenters square up against the blade and moved the fence over and he was astounded. I told him: I treat my tools with respect and they stay in tune for me.
The BT3000 has one of the greatest depth of cuts of any 10 inch saws but the motor is not one that you rip 2x4s at break neck production speed, nor do you drop 2x4s across the table and expect it to keep its alignment perfect. (on the other hand no one would do that - drop a 2x4 haphazardly - on the Biesemeyer Fence of a $2000 saw either. If treated with some respect that is one of the most accurate saws for a home shop one can get for the price.
Early on, I used the miter slot and my heavy duty and very accurate Woodhaven miter gauge.
Then slowly I got used to the sliding miter table (SMT) and how to set it up for accuracy. After that, I use the SMT 95 times out of 100 in cross cuts and cutting small pieces. DON'T stand the SMT upright and grab by the table and let the base slam to the ground! It will break! DAMHIKT. And don't DROP the SMT. Same thing!
Aluminum Miter slot table can be purchased a few places, and miter slots in plywood panels can be added. Not uncommon. I have a miter slot table on mine. A few people purchased two MS tables and placed one on each side of the blade table. And a few people added a 3/4" plywood table about 6 inches wide on each side and did a dado for a MS track. it is customizable.
I have 1 and 1/2 of the saw. I have a 3000 that I had overseas and brought back to the states with me, and I had a 3100 over here. I gave the 3000 to a son in law and kept the 3100. I have had the 3000 for 19 years and the 3100 for 17 years. Oh, the 1/2 saw - parts from a saw I found outside in a junk pile back in 2004 in Japan. I still have the parts, including the motor and they still work well.
Some people have had problems with them staying tuned (accurate) but I haven't. I have registration squares that I measure against the blade and with the sliding miter table on occasion, and it stays true for me. I had a fellow once asked me as I put the fence on if I was going to check the accuracy of the fence before ripping his few 2x4s. I said I don't have to. He said - It is customary to always check. I put the long leg of a carpenters square up against the blade and moved the fence over and he was astounded. I told him: I treat my tools with respect and they stay in tune for me.
The BT3000 has one of the greatest depth of cuts of any 10 inch saws but the motor is not one that you rip 2x4s at break neck production speed, nor do you drop 2x4s across the table and expect it to keep its alignment perfect. (on the other hand no one would do that - drop a 2x4 haphazardly - on the Biesemeyer Fence of a $2000 saw either. If treated with some respect that is one of the most accurate saws for a home shop one can get for the price.
Early on, I used the miter slot and my heavy duty and very accurate Woodhaven miter gauge.
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jttheclockman
Member
Well I will give my opinion and not sure if any help. But that saw is a basic direct drive tablesaw with a universal motor. It is built for rough construction and that is not to say you can not make some fine furniture with it but it will need tweaking and probably every time you use it or a device on it such as the fence and miter sled. Not ever using the saw or even seeing this saw in person it is hard to say weather a sled can be made to accommodate segmenting. But I am sure something could be done. if there is no runout in the blade or arbor then everything will come off the blade as it normally does on any tablesaw.
Man I have to step away from this because there are way too many variables here. If that miter sled does not have any play in it then build the sled off that is all I can tell you. If it does then elliminate it and build the sled off the sides of the table portion where the blade is. Use a flat plywood and put 2 cleats under it to ride against the sides of that table. (hopefully the table is milled true all the way down) Then build any angles or fences on top of the plywood. But key is always make all addons come off the side of the blade. In other words any fence you add must be 90 degrees to the blade. Once you have that established all angles can now come off that fence. But I sill check with side of the blade.
Just to be clear you need to start with something like this with a tall front and back fence in case you did not understand what I was saying. The fences keep the plywood together. You can get as fancy as you like.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dfhysRQoQfY/maxresdefault.jpg
Man I have to step away from this because there are way too many variables here. If that miter sled does not have any play in it then build the sled off that is all I can tell you. If it does then elliminate it and build the sled off the sides of the table portion where the blade is. Use a flat plywood and put 2 cleats under it to ride against the sides of that table. (hopefully the table is milled true all the way down) Then build any angles or fences on top of the plywood. But key is always make all addons come off the side of the blade. In other words any fence you add must be 90 degrees to the blade. Once you have that established all angles can now come off that fence. But I sill check with side of the blade.
Just to be clear you need to start with something like this with a tall front and back fence in case you did not understand what I was saying. The fences keep the plywood together. You can get as fancy as you like.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dfhysRQoQfY/maxresdefault.jpg
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Woodchipper
Member
John T., that is what I'm considering at for a sled. Have the cleats ride along side the solid part that houses the blade. Have lots of plywood pieces and oak that could be used for the cleats. Thanks to all. Before I do any cut with the miter, I check for square with a Groz square. BTW, got rid of the round know which wouldn't tight worth a flip. Replaced with with a wing nut and tighten with a wrench. Earthquake won't move it! Does fine for what I'm doing but want to cut small pieces for segmenting...another new adventure in The Wonderful World of Penmaking!
leehljp
Member Liaison
FYI: That was designed for Ryobi (Japanese company) in Italy as a "precision" saw at consumer prices, and advertised as such. The problem with it was people equated the price as a rough construction contractor's saw. If treated like a contractors saw to be thrown into the back of a pickup and bounced around, it will not hold up. The original model had a wide extension float table and with the extras did sell for $1000 to $2000 depending on the country. The full model in Japan was about $2000.00
It is a universal motor, but it is not a direct drive. It has two track like belts that drive it.
As to making a sled with tracks to run on both sides of the base table top: raise the blade to its highest; place a carpenters square along the blade and see if it is parallel to the sides of the table. On some, it may not be parallel. The 1. arbor for the saw blade, the 2. fence/rails and the 3. SMT are designed to be in alignment with each other, not the sides of the table top. It has been found on some table tops that the sides of the top are NOT perfectly parallel to the blade. IF one thinks in terms of a normal USA TableSaw, there can be alignment problems. It was not designed from that perspective; it was designed from the perspective of alignment of theses three parts: arbor/blade, fence/rails and SMT.
Early on, (mid-80's) Makita made the same basic saw, and when treated as an inexpensive "precision" saw, it worked well; but with its cheaper price, people treated it as a cheap contractors saw and it did not hold up in those cases. For those who treat it like it is supposed to be treated, it works excellent.
I get glue up rip cuts and cross cuts all the time. I am not the only one either. Treat it like a cheap contractors saw and it will be just that; treat it like the saw it was designed to be and be surprised at its precision. As one guy said about 15 years ago: "I'll treat it like I want to!", the reply to him: "then you got a cheap contractors saw. Treat it like a precision saw and it will cut that way!"
Just a note: My dad left me a Delta Unisaw that he had for several years; Of course most people would take the Unisaw. But his - it had a slight minor vibration that required alignment settings and tightening bolts and re-setting the fence regularly. Several times, my dad tried to find the source of the vibration b y changing out link belts and pulleys, and trunion adjustments, but never could. I had better cuts on the BT3000 than I could get and maintain on the Unisaw. I sold the Unisaw and kept the BT3000 - as I was and am more into PRECISION than for fast production, and I know the difference.
Oh, I can do the nickel test all day long too; couldn't do that on Dad's Unisaw.
I just checked and finding a miter slot table is now next to impossible. If you watch eBay, you may find one.
Link for Youtube and miter slot table and home made wide table kit:
BTW: the picture in the OP is a 3100, not a 3000. The 3100 does have one advantage but had some downgrades also. I personally liked the 3000 better in spite of its tendency to lose its shims.
It is a universal motor, but it is not a direct drive. It has two track like belts that drive it.
As to making a sled with tracks to run on both sides of the base table top: raise the blade to its highest; place a carpenters square along the blade and see if it is parallel to the sides of the table. On some, it may not be parallel. The 1. arbor for the saw blade, the 2. fence/rails and the 3. SMT are designed to be in alignment with each other, not the sides of the table top. It has been found on some table tops that the sides of the top are NOT perfectly parallel to the blade. IF one thinks in terms of a normal USA TableSaw, there can be alignment problems. It was not designed from that perspective; it was designed from the perspective of alignment of theses three parts: arbor/blade, fence/rails and SMT.
Early on, (mid-80's) Makita made the same basic saw, and when treated as an inexpensive "precision" saw, it worked well; but with its cheaper price, people treated it as a cheap contractors saw and it did not hold up in those cases. For those who treat it like it is supposed to be treated, it works excellent.
I get glue up rip cuts and cross cuts all the time. I am not the only one either. Treat it like a cheap contractors saw and it will be just that; treat it like the saw it was designed to be and be surprised at its precision. As one guy said about 15 years ago: "I'll treat it like I want to!", the reply to him: "then you got a cheap contractors saw. Treat it like a precision saw and it will cut that way!"
Just a note: My dad left me a Delta Unisaw that he had for several years; Of course most people would take the Unisaw. But his - it had a slight minor vibration that required alignment settings and tightening bolts and re-setting the fence regularly. Several times, my dad tried to find the source of the vibration b y changing out link belts and pulleys, and trunion adjustments, but never could. I had better cuts on the BT3000 than I could get and maintain on the Unisaw. I sold the Unisaw and kept the BT3000 - as I was and am more into PRECISION than for fast production, and I know the difference.
Oh, I can do the nickel test all day long too; couldn't do that on Dad's Unisaw.
I just checked and finding a miter slot table is now next to impossible. If you watch eBay, you may find one.
Link for Youtube and miter slot table and home made wide table kit:
BTW: the picture in the OP is a 3100, not a 3000. The 3100 does have one advantage but had some downgrades also. I personally liked the 3000 better in spite of its tendency to lose its shims.
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Woodchipper
Member
Hank, thanks for the info. I'll take a minute and check for square between the blade and the top assembly. I'm wondering if the blade can be tweaked to square it to the top. Need to look at the parts list to see ifthere are any bolts, screws, etc., that indicate this possibility.
leehljp
Member Liaison
I am going from Memory from about 10 years ago: Ryobi engineers (several years ago) said no, but I disassembled my 3000 (separating the top from the motor housing) to bring it back home from Japan in 2010. I "Think" It can be tweaked probably 1° to 1 1/2° - if one knows what they are doing and where to do it. While it doesn't have a trunion, it has the frame for holding the motor housing and it is screwed into the top. The only way to do it is disassemble it and drill the holes out by about 1/32 inch. Then with that "play," you can tighten the screws to bring it into alignment. Bear in mind that the engineers did not want that being done. But then that is what engineers say for legality sake.
I will check it out today and IF I need to make some corrections, I will let you know.
Here is a 3000 manual. The 3000 up under is the same as the 3100 except it does not have the shim problem of the 3000.
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leehljp
Member Liaison
OK, I think I have the adjustment but you Might not need it. Check and see if the blade IS parallel with the side. If so, you are OK to make a sled.
If not, take a look at the picture below. The space between each red line on the right and left shows a little "bump" which are two screws. There is the same on the back side, I think. These are the screws that hold the motor/blade housing to the saw top. The saw should be turned upside down and the side panels taken off - several screws for each panel; then the front and rear panels need to be taken off and that gets a little complicated as the front height/angle wheel has to come off.
Then drill out the screw holes on the aluminum housing by 1/32" front and back. I would not drill it out any more than that, but that should allow enough wiggle.
Replace the screws and tighten barely snug. With the blade out the top of the saw check with a parallel leg such as carpenters square. Then tighten. This might be an hour or two endeavor but once done, it should be Good to Go.
It seems like there is one more little item I am overlooking but it has been 10 years since I had mine apart. I made a minor adjustment of some sort and it is working to this day.
If not, take a look at the picture below. The space between each red line on the right and left shows a little "bump" which are two screws. There is the same on the back side, I think. These are the screws that hold the motor/blade housing to the saw top. The saw should be turned upside down and the side panels taken off - several screws for each panel; then the front and rear panels need to be taken off and that gets a little complicated as the front height/angle wheel has to come off.
Then drill out the screw holes on the aluminum housing by 1/32" front and back. I would not drill it out any more than that, but that should allow enough wiggle.
Replace the screws and tighten barely snug. With the blade out the top of the saw check with a parallel leg such as carpenters square. Then tighten. This might be an hour or two endeavor but once done, it should be Good to Go.It seems like there is one more little item I am overlooking but it has been 10 years since I had mine apart. I made a minor adjustment of some sort and it is working to this day.
jttheclockman
Member
Hank not to disagree with you but that is NOT a precision tablesaw by any means. It is not a contractors saw either. It is a job site saw with a underpowered universal motor. yes it will cut and as I said if tuned it can make some nice projects. But holding that tuneup is impossible on those saws. I have an equivalent Craftsman. The fence needs to be set and checked every time used. That sliding table for the miters relies on a plastic pivot pin. Any play in that table from wear there goes all your tweaking. It is what it is a entry level saw. Thin kerf blades is all you can run on them. You have to make your own zero clearance plate which should not be a problem if you are handy.
Again when using any tablesaw and that means contractors saw, hybrids, and cabinet saws, all measurements and tweaking comes off the blade. Now you set the blade to match the miter slots and match the fence to match the blade but the blade is always the center focal point of adjusting things. Thus when making sleds of any kind they are built off the center link pin the blade. Even if the blade is not parallel to the sides of the table does not matter. What does matter is that the platform the blade spins in is equal width down the entire length or else the sled will not slide properly. And on a cheap saw like that who knows but that is where you start. Run your cut down the middle of said plywood sled. Now that back fence needs to be 90 degrees to the cut. Now add any angles you want and any tracks to hold things down. Now you have an accurate sled for segmenting. Hopefully there is no runout in the arbor of whatever turns that blade if you say it is not a direct drive.
I just wanted to make it clear so people do not get the idea and run out and buy that saw and expect it to be a precision tablesaw because it is far from that.
Again when using any tablesaw and that means contractors saw, hybrids, and cabinet saws, all measurements and tweaking comes off the blade. Now you set the blade to match the miter slots and match the fence to match the blade but the blade is always the center focal point of adjusting things. Thus when making sleds of any kind they are built off the center link pin the blade. Even if the blade is not parallel to the sides of the table does not matter. What does matter is that the platform the blade spins in is equal width down the entire length or else the sled will not slide properly. And on a cheap saw like that who knows but that is where you start. Run your cut down the middle of said plywood sled. Now that back fence needs to be 90 degrees to the cut. Now add any angles you want and any tracks to hold things down. Now you have an accurate sled for segmenting. Hopefully there is no runout in the arbor of whatever turns that blade if you say it is not a direct drive.
I just wanted to make it clear so people do not get the idea and run out and buy that saw and expect it to be a precision tablesaw because it is far from that.
leehljp
Member Liaison
John, sorry to disappoint you. A person's opinion is just that. It was designed and built as a poor mans precision saw:
Front page of the manual above: "CONGRATULATIONS AND THANK YOU FOR BUYING THIS RYOBI 10 in. PRECISION CUTTING SYSTEM."
It was not listed as a "saw" but a "SYSTEM". The System is a bunch of add ons that were created for it. I know that most people have their own idea about things and then hear - "hearsay" - as fact.
Below is a pict of the parts list: 2 V belts, which are the drive belt. It is not a matter of "I say" - as you put it.
Yep, I can make it NOT hold a tune up; If you don't like the idea of such a saw, just say so, but don't say things that you do not know for a fact. I will also admit that we have had some people on our forum that abused the saw and treated it like a cast iron saw; can't do that. I mentioned in an above post that it will do the nickel test where as my dads Delta Unisaw never could, with extensive tuneups.
John, I admire your work and you do excellent work. You give excellent advice and I agree with what you say 95% of the time which is more than I do with most others. But this is one area that I do have to disagree with simply from nothing but pure experience of 19 years of regular use. AND I use registration squares for squaring and aligning. I have to do more on my miter saws and even lathes than I do on the BT3x00. Now I will admit that I treat it kindly and don't slam it around.
Again, people come to their own conclusions and then add hearsay and conclude that it is a "Contractors" saw or "Job Site Saw" - which it is/was not designed for that title at todays job site and contractor's saws are designed.
It was originally designed to give precision cuts of stationary saws on site, but it did not work out that way. The reason (from condensing of early on engineer's design purposes) was that contractors did buy it and gave it to the construction guys who abused it because they themselves did not own it. We know people like that! It made its way (sales focus) then to the home owners and who wanted precision cuts on a budget price and would take care of the saw.
It was discontinued around 2006 or 2007 after about a 15 year run with 600,000+ sales around the world. Lots in England and Australia on 220V.
Now if you don't own one, how do you know that? We are getting back into hearsay. Lets see now, I can go out and get glue line rips with a good blade (which I keep on it) at any time without having to adjust. I don't use second rate blades. Even though you can't imagine how a plastic pin can offer precision it does.
Below is some of my work with the BT as a PRECISION saw and I did NOT havre to calibrate it every time I needed to make a cut or rip.
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leehljp
Member Liaison
Oh, here is a from panel pict from Ebay (Notice the bottom line in the black background. Sometimes what we don't know keeps us from enjoying things in this world.):
Ryobi BT3000 Table Saw Both Front And Both Side Metal Panels | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Ryobi BT3000 Table Saw Both Front And Both Side Metal Panels at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
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Woodchipper
Member
I looked for the add-on part for the miter slots. I found a LOT of parts are discontinued and not available. This is from www.ereplacementparts.com. Hank, those are nice builds. Is the light-colored the one made from hickory? I need to take an afternoon and look closely at the assembly and the manual (real men don't read manuals!). Might be something that will allow me to tweak it a bit. My grandson is a techie who finds things I don't. Might get him to help. Only costs a pizza at the local pizza parlor.
greenacres2
Member
If i still had my BT3000 (sold to my wife's best friend who uses quite regularly and loves it)--and i were building a segmenting sled...i'd probably use the sliding miter table as the sled base. My slider was square out of the box, and stayed that way for the 20 or so years i used it. Once i began ripping a fair amount of hardwood, i became a bit frustrated with the rip fence--I couldn't get the adjustment nailed to my satisfaction...quite likely me. Wish i'd kept it as today i think it would be a great tool for segmenting, especially with a 7 1/4" blade mounted.
earl
earl
Woodchipper
Member
Earl, thanks. Will play around with it and see what it can do. I can adjust it tp minimize lateral movement. I tried to adjust the rip fence and everytime I tightened it, the end would move left, pinching the wood. Tried three times- so I grabbed the end and pushed the end to the right. Has a tiny bit of space at the end to keep from pinching the wood.
jttheclockman
Member
Hank I did not read all that you wrote but we are both entitled to our opinions and just because the box says persions does not make it so. But again I did say and you have to give me this that I did say you can make some fine furniture with it as well as many other things. I wish you and anyone else luck with this saw. Your work proves this. I probably should have as well as many other topics stayed out of this one because I do not have this particular saw. But did try to give some advice to make a more precise sled for it. Maybe you can help the op out more than I Hank. And I never asked you to ever ever ever agree with anything I say or do. I never ask anyone to. But I do say what I mean. Never will change.
leehljp
Member Liaison
Actually it is very clear pine. It was difficult for me to find clear pine and I found it at one home center. (I was living in the Osaka area at the time). There was one store (Tokyu Hands - famous hobby/crafts store in Japan) that had different kinds of hardwood but it was prohibitively expensive, so I settled on what I could find in local home centers. It took me well over a year buying one board at a time to get that. They would only stock two or three 12" wide boards in pine at a time and they were not all clear or straight.
leehljp
Member Liaison
John, I agree with you on the fact that if something has it written on it - that doesn't make it so. But with it written on it - that is what they were selling it as. I found it to be that and more, but I will give the full caveat that it is not a steel/cast iron cabinet saw and won't handle the speed rips. It is not the precision that comes into play - but the lack of power for all day 2x4 rips. I haven't had problems with that because I take my time.
EARL: you mentioned the fence - the BT3x00 fence has a double lock first to the front rail, second swings into alignment as the handle is pushed further down and then locks against the back rail. That "swing" as it locks gets a lot of people who do not understand it. but once understood works well. Once it locks, it locks on both ends. firmly.
EARL: you mentioned the fence - the BT3x00 fence has a double lock first to the front rail, second swings into alignment as the handle is pushed further down and then locks against the back rail. That "swing" as it locks gets a lot of people who do not understand it. but once understood works well. Once it locks, it locks on both ends. firmly.