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It's not only the blade but a very expensive cartridge that blows off. It is also not "fail proof" for false triggers. Wet wood can blow it off as well and that is a very expensive mistake.

Now my "issue" with this is the owner of the product. He has a good idea, and he holds the patent. But is is trying to mandate that all saws have to have this on them which forces all the other makers to kiss his feet to stay in bussiness. That is very poor form to try to gain the market hold not on how good your product is, but to legislate your compitition out of the race. :(
 
Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

It's not only the blade but a very expensive cartridge that blows off. It is also not "fail proof" for false triggers. Wet wood can blow it off as well and that is a very expensive mistake.

Now my "issue" with this is the owner of the product. He has a good idea, and he holds the patent. But is is trying to mandate that all saws have to have this on them which forces all the other makers to kiss his feet to stay in bussiness. That is very poor form to try to gain the market hold not on how good your product is, but to legislate your compitition out of the race. :(

Thanks for this post you two. We looked at this or should I say we drooled over it a couple weeks back. This has just removed it from our train of thought. Loss of a blade and cartridge could end up costing you a major order as well if you can't replace those in a timely fashion and/or if they blow on the weekend.
Now, if this legislation business is factual we want nothing to do with them. That is absolutely pathetic and in no way would we consider supporting such practices.

Mike & Linda
 
Mike, go over to Woodnet and search thier forums and you will find a LOT of posts about the sawstop. I do get a kick out of the hot dog trick though. You want to impress me, stick you hand in there. What, don't you trust it?? [}:)]
 
Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

Mike, go over to Woodnet and search thier forums and you will find a LOT of posts about the sawstop. I do get a kick out of the hot dog trick though. You want to impress me, stick you hand in there. What, don't you trust it?? [}:)]
Thats what i said about it more then a year ago,"nobody Raised A finger Yet" Carl
 
It is designed to minimize injury, but it will still cut you - so putting your finger in there is a bad idea!

As far as the legislation, I bet the inventor of the seatbelt had the same problems...you don't have to wear it, but you're better off with it than without.

I think the sawstop should be absolutely mandatory in all high school shops...cut the pressure treated lumber on your mitre saw instead! :)

But I'm not trying to start an argument - there are too many people who have a knee-jerk reaction to the saw stop...I just think that it's a really good idea, and SHOULD be on all saws. That way, the cost should come down.

I bet that once the patent runs out, all saws WILL have the sawstop technology in them, with perhaps an override switch for when you're cutting lumber you know to be slightly wet.
 
Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

Mike, go over to Woodnet and search thier forums and you will find a LOT of posts about the sawstop. I do get a kick out of the hot dog trick though. You want to impress me, stick you hand in there. What, don't you trust it?? [}:)]

Hey Lee does this impress you?



200812652542_1%20060.jpg
 
Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

It's not only the blade but a very expensive cartridge that blows off. It is also not "fail proof" for false triggers. Wet wood can blow it off as well and that is a very expensive mistake......

IIRC, the cartridge is about $80. Have you priced a visit to a hospital ER lately?
 
Originally posted by MLKWoodWorking
.....Loss of a blade and cartridge could end up costing you a major order as well if you can't replace those in a timely fashion and/or if they blow on the weekend......

If you get your hand into a blade without a SawStop, I'm guessing you probably won't be doing any production work for a while anyway. Other point is that most folks in the business have more than one saw blade and it would seem reasonable to have a spare cartridge on hand as well.
 
Good point about the seatbelts. Not so ridiculous when you think about it. There are safety regulations for everything in just about every industry. So, it doesn't seem very rational to condemn the man because he's trying to get his product, which really does work by the way, into every table saw. If OSHA can mandate some of the most useless safety protocols known to man, we can deal with sawstop. As someone mentioned, a new blade and brake cartridge are a small price to pay for keeping your finger/fingers. Losing an appendage is more costly than just the trip to the ER. Just some food for thought.
 
Originally posted by MLKWoodWorking

Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

Mike, go over to Woodnet and search thier forums and you will find a LOT of posts about the sawstop. I do get a kick out of the hot dog trick though. You want to impress me, stick you hand in there. What, don't you trust it?? [}:)]

Hey Lee does this impress you?



200812652542_1%20060.jpg

You know what? I'm never eating another hot dog as long as I live. [xx(]:D
 
OK... But then where??? Lathe stop? Drill stop? CMS stop maybe? I understand the idea, but if the thing is the next best thng, let the MARKET decide that it is needed, not some lawmaker telling me that I have to change my stuff. I mean just look at sliced bread! How often do you buy bread that is not sliced? They still sell it!

Oh, and as for it being only $80.00, toss a nice Forest WWII blade on there and kick it up another $100, maybe $150. Not to mention in a production shop the chance that you either have to stock all these new parts of you have major down time. I understand that if you chop a finger you are going to be down for much longer, but hit a wet spot in some wood and you are gonna be mad!
Then you need to factor in that there are many other "dangerous" tools in the shop to get hurt on. My opinion is that you need to have a healthy fear of your shop. If you dumb it down to the point where you "feel safe" you are going to get hurt. I bet the guy missing half his finger would tell as story that "Yea, stupid me.... I was not paying attention and..." What next, hammers with little air bags incase you hit your finger you don't get an owiee-bobo?? ;)
 
My $.02 on the matter:
It's easy to be completely safe using a Table Saw if you use the proper devices such as sleds, push sticks, hold downs, riving knife, and so on.
Truth be told, most users and many commercial shops don't always do that, hence there are many accidents.
As to legislation mandating it, I can't make a comment without becoming political, so I'll leave that'n be.

SawStop has a claim (endorsement) on their homepage from a customer who says he saves money because of the safety feature. Now, that's a capitalist argument I can live with.
If I were in business I'd have to look at my staff's safety record and see if the additional cost of the equipment would reduce our overall costs. That, coupled with the added benefit of protecting the knuckleheads who work for me and won't protect themselves would induce me to move that way.
 
I just have to say - I was at a local woodcraft sale where they demod the hot dog trick.. It was quiet impressive.

And the 'bang' stopped the whole store (packed because of the sale) and there was at least 10 seconds of silence as everyone who wasn't watching paused too.
 
Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

I do get a kick out of the hot dog trick though. You want to impress me, stick you hand in there.
I used to have a neighbor who was a police officer. One day, she told me that her department was buying new bullet-proof vests and a number of companies had sent salesmen to demonstrate their products. All but one set their vest up on a dummy and shot it to demonstrate its effectiveness. The other one put his vest on and shot himself.

Guess which one they bought.

Regards,
Eric
 
I saw an article in a magazine a couple of years ago. I think it was woodworking magazine but am not sure. they did a review of it. in the process of testing it they managed to blow 2 cartridges. one was with wood that was to wet, the other was while changing a blade. both blades where damaged.
they even mentioned that it was an expensive day of testing but also mentioned that the mistaeks caused them to be even more careful. they aslo wrote that they empoyed a few more steps in there work liek a moisture meter to the wood before sawing. by the way even with the stop if your finger or hand gets into the blade you are going to the ER. it si a matter of some stitches or a lsot finger, hand etc. I know a person that owned a business, one of his employees lost his hand in a table saw. he lost his business, not to mention the emotional roller coaster I saw him go through. I think even $150 would have been a good deal. Mandatory I do not agree with. I don't agree with seat belt laws either. people get trapped in accidents as often by them as they get saved by them. I had to enter a rolled vehicle to free a young child because she was trapped in one. I watched a pilot crash his plane. he survived the crash but died in the burning plane trapped in his belt. Again I had to free a young man that had t-boned anouther vehicle. the crash broke his wrist, and he could not release the belt, in his panic, pain and shock it never accoured to him to use his other hand. It tokk the occupents fo the second care over two minutes to finally get out of there car largely due to the confusion that a seat belt causes in the mind of an accident victim. Non of them where injured at all just shaken up. 2 minutes for it to finally sink in that you are strapped to your car. 5 minutes can mean the difference between life and death to an accident vistim, do you really want to risk nearly half that time to finally unhook a seat belt. yet a third accident that I was so close to that I nearly became a part fo it was a jeep that rear ended another vehicle. the driver of the car was thrown forward violently, Did you know your belt won't help in a rear end accident and you can still get thrown through the windshield, that it jammed her seat belt. it took me and two other people over 5 minutes to free her and she was seriously injured. All the accidents except the plane crash accourd at less than 25 M.P.H. one was under 10 M.P.H. and one was at a stand still. The seat belt in yet anouther accident I know of was directly linked to the death of a good friend of mine. the belt kept him isolated to the most damaged part of the vehicle, the drivers seat. actually it was the only part fo the vehicle that was damaged. the belt preventd him from being thrown to the passanger seat where he very likely would have survived the accident. and finally my most conmpelling story against set belts. a van with ten people in it roll 150 feet down a mountain side. 5 occupanst wearing seat belts 5 where not. the 5 without belts where thrown from the vehicle, suffered minor cuts and scrapes and all where able to walk away. the most sevious injury of those 5 was a cut to the scalp that required 4 stitches. of the 5 that remained strapped in the van. All had serious head injuries, one had a broken arm, and one had a broken back. all where trapped in the vehicle for over 30 minutes while recue crews cut them from the vehicle. Of the 5 without belts all went home that same day. of the 5 with belts they all stayed in the hospital from between 3 days and 4 weeks. This accident happened to my younger brothers gymnastics team. by the way the young man that suffered the broken arm. was well on his way to the olympics. the broken arm ended that dream as he was no longer able to preform movements like the iron cross. I don't think it is anyones business how anouther person deals with risk unless they are willing to accept the results of that decision. If I die due to wearing a seat belt that the law requires I wear, will that government then pay off my house, buy my wife and family a new car every few years, keep there bills payed, feed them and care for them as I would had there law not killed me? Certainly not but yet they still believe they have the right to tell me how to address the risk. I can only think of one accident to someone I know that I think the seat belt may have helped, at least it did not put the person at greater risk. my mother ran into the transmission that had fallen out of the car in fron of her on the freeway. the impact threw her car int o the median wall. She was able to walk away from it with some pain in one leg and a sore wrist. this is really not ment to be a rant. I simply do not believe what society seems to have accepted about what is safe and what is not. People choose to skydive, hang glide, and bungiee jump which are all far more dangerous than anything I have ever done. Nobody seems to think that is to much of a risk. In fact my mother decided to skydive for her 40th birthday. 2 years later, two inches shorted, and hundreds of thousands of dollars later she was finally able to take her first step. ever bumped your tail bone? hurts doens't it? she crushed hers into 13 pieces. was never supposed to walk again, and doctors wanted to preform surgery to sever her spine in order to stop intense pain. She endured the pain and today you would not know she had had an accident. so much for what those that know best know.
 
The company I work for has a sawstop and I think they are great. This saw is not only safer but it is a very well built tool, it has to be heavy duty to take the force of the sudden stop. We have had the saw two years, it has been set off about three times.
Once when the guy tried to cut metal laminate, once when it wasn't calibrated correctly and once when the the operators hand slipped and hit the blade all he got was a small nick. No matter how safe you are we are human and accidents can happen, I would feel alot better about losing $200 bucks than going for surgery. As for cost my boss has paid $600 over last two years because of stupidity but at the same time a coworker was using another saw without the stop and he cut the end of his finger off.
He will be off work 6 to eight weeks and this accident will cost our company $60,000 in fines and compensation plus lost production. So what do you think he rather pay for?
You can't make anyone or anything a 100% safe but this saw helps. My boy takes shop in high school I sure would like them to have a sawstop. Oh buy the way the saw does have a by pass switch for wet wood and conducting material.
 
Back in the '80s I watched a jobber from an electrical supply house demonstrate the fast switching time of a ground-fault interrupter by jumping into a small swimming pool holding a plugged in & switched on power drill. The guy obviously had a lot of faith in the QA of his product line. BTW, he survived. ;)

Cheers.
 
Originally posted by Sylvanite
I used to have a neighbor who was a police officer. One day, she told me that her department was buying new bullet-proof vests and a number of companies had sent salesmen to demonstrate their products. All but one set their vest up on a dummy and shot it to demonstrate its effectiveness. The other one put his vest on and shot himself.

Guess which one they bought.
Wow.. Take that in different light - No matter if that vest works EVERY time, I can't imagine the companies insurance policy likes that at all. He is taking a health risk at every 'demo' - not just from the chance of failure. There is alot of energy in a bullet and all the vest does is disperse it - you still end up with some nasty bruises underneath.
 
I don't want to be MADE to use a SawStop any more than I want to be MADE to wear a helmut when I ride my Harley. Do I wear a helmut? 99% of the time, yes, and I know I should 100% of the time, but that isn't the issue. Do I use safety devices when using my TS? Absolutley. Why? B/c I've had a few close calls and learned the hard way. I have no problem with such safety devices being mandatory for schools, but for the general woodworking public... no way.
 
Originally posted by Daniel

I saw an article in a magazine a couple of years ago. I think it was woodworking magazine but am not sure. they did a review of it. in the process of testing it they managed to blow 2 cartridges. one was with wood that was to wet, the other was while changing a blade. both blades where damaged.
they even mentioned that it was an expensive day of testing but also mentioned that the mistaeks caused them to be even more careful. they aslo wrote that they empoyed a few more steps in there work liek a moisture meter to the wood before sawing. by the way even with the stop if your finger or hand gets into the blade you are going to the ER. it si a matter of some stitches or a lsot finger, hand etc. I know a person that owned a business, one of his employees lost his hand in a table saw. he lost his business, not to mention the emotional roller coaster I saw him go through. I think even $150 would have been a good deal. Mandatory I do not agree with. I don't agree with seat belt laws either. people get trapped in accidents as often by them as they get saved by them. I had to enter a rolled vehicle to free a young child because she was trapped in one. I watched a pilot crash his plane. he survived the crash but died in the burning plane trapped in his belt. Again I had to free a young man that had t-boned anouther vehicle. the crash broke his wrist, and he could not release the belt, in his panic, pain and shock it never accoured to him to use his other hand. It tokk the occupents fo the second care over two minutes to finally get out of there car largely due to the confusion that a seat belt causes in the mind of an accident victim. Non of them where injured at all just shaken up. 2 minutes for it to finally sink in that you are strapped to your car. 5 minutes can mean the difference between life and death to an accident vistim, do you really want to risk nearly half that time to finally unhook a seat belt. yet a third accident that I was so close to that I nearly became a part fo it was a jeep that rear ended another vehicle. the driver of the car was thrown forward violently, Did you know your belt won't help in a rear end accident and you can still get thrown through the windshield, that it jammed her seat belt. it took me and two other people over 5 minutes to free her and she was seriously injured. All the accidents except the plane crash accourd at less than 25 M.P.H. one was under 10 M.P.H. and one was at a stand still. The seat belt in yet anouther accident I know of was directly linked to the death of a good friend of mine. the belt kept him isolated to the most damaged part of the vehicle, the drivers seat. actually it was the only part fo the vehicle that was damaged. the belt preventd him from being thrown to the passanger seat where he very likely would have survived the accident. and finally my most conmpelling story against set belts. a van with ten people in it roll 150 feet down a mountain side. 5 occupanst wearing seat belts 5 where not. the 5 without belts where thrown from the vehicle, suffered minor cuts and scrapes and all where able to walk away. the most sevious injury of those 5 was a cut to the scalp that required 4 stitches. of the 5 that remained strapped in the van. All had serious head injuries, one had a broken arm, and one had a broken back. all where trapped in the vehicle for over 30 minutes while recue crews cut them from the vehicle. Of the 5 without belts all went home that same day. of the 5 with belts they all stayed in the hospital from between 3 days and 4 weeks. This accident happened to my younger brothers gymnastics team. by the way the young man that suffered the broken arm. was well on his way to the olympics. the broken arm ended that dream as he was no longer able to preform movements like the iron cross. I don't think it is anyones business how anouther person deals with risk unless they are willing to accept the results of that decision. If I die due to wearing a seat belt that the law requires I wear, will that government then pay off my house, buy my wife and family a new car every few years, keep there bills payed, feed them and care for them as I would had there law not killed me? Certainly not but yet they still believe they have the right to tell me how to address the risk. I can only think of one accident to someone I know that I think the seat belt may have helped, at least it did not put the person at greater risk. my mother ran into the transmission that had fallen out of the car in fron of her on the freeway. the impact threw her car int o the median wall. She was able to walk away from it with some pain in one leg and a sore wrist. this is really not ment to be a rant. I simply do not believe what society seems to have accepted about what is safe and what is not. People choose to skydive, hang glide, and bungiee jump which are all far more dangerous than anything I have ever done. Nobody seems to think that is to much of a risk. In fact my mother decided to skydive for her 40th birthday. 2 years later, two inches shorted, and hundreds of thousands of dollars later she was finally able to take her first step. ever bumped your tail bone? hurts doens't it? she crushed hers into 13 pieces. was never supposed to walk again, and doctors wanted to preform surgery to sever her spine in order to stop intense pain. She endured the pain and today you would not know she had had an accident. so much for what those that know best know.
 
AJM made me realize why I wouldn't like it. I use my TSs 99% of the time for wood, but a good carbide blade does beautiful smooth cuts on aluminum. Pushing a piece of aluminum through will obviously trigger the stop.

BTW, for those not in the know - carbide blades are a recommended way of cutting aluminum. There are speciality blades dedicated to aluminum but CC WW blades are OK. BUT you better have some experience, be loaded with common sense and have a respect for the job.
 
As was pointed out earlier, the SawStop saw has a bypass switch that can be engaged to temporarily deactivate the braking mechanism whenever the user wishes to cut conductive materials like metal or wet wood.

I don't find any compelling reasons for not using this new device save for the price. Sadly, it is just way beyond the limits of my current tool budget.
 
On the subject of saw dangers, did anyone see the episode of Dirty Jobs where he was at a cedar shingle factory? I'm not sure if it was a new one, but I saw it this week. Everything they did on that show seemed incredibly dangerous. They had circular blades that must have been over 18" with no guards. In fact the guy kept touching the side of the blade while it was spinning. they also had an incredibly large band saw which looked like it was waiting to take a finger off. I know I don't always take every precaution I should, but those guys scared the hell out of me. Nick
 
I seen that episode and having been hit with the the ts blade (no lost fingers) I left the room on that episoade I couldn't watch it, it made me sick! I would sell pencils on the street corner before working at the shingle factory! good day Howard
 
My favorite was making charcoal. "Shouldn't we wear a dust mask?" asks Mike. "Nah...my dad worked here 50 yrs and never had a problem. It's organic dust." replies the owner.

I don't know how I feel about the saw stop. I can't afford it. If I could afford it, I still don't want to touch the blade with my hands or fingers, and since I don't want to touch the blade regardless, why buy one? You want absolute safety, I say use a stock feeder. Let the rollers and motor be close to the blade. Not only is it safer than a blade stop, but cheaper too, and you don't have to worry about replacing blades and cartridges.
 
for the money they want, I'll get a Euro style saw. Much better functionality and nice safety features.


On the sawstop You have to have a different cartridge for a dado blade also. Also there is a bypass switch on them now that allows one cut cycle before it rests again. That means you get a chance to loose a whole finger every time you press that button.

With people driving more recklessly as the result of modern "safety" features in cars do to the "I can't get hurt philosophy". I can see it happening with this tool too. And what happens when sloppy technique from a sawstop owner goes next door and uses his bud's non-sawstop saw for "just one cut".
 
I agree about the cost, I can't afford one either, for a larger company they are ideal.
Of course we can all try to work safer and smarter, sometimes all we need to do is slow down and think about what we are doing, but it only needs to happen once. Power feeders are a good option, costly and take longer to setup. Anything can happen but we try to reduce the chance of accidents. I saw one co-worker who was using a feeder get hit by a piece of wood that split and became a projectile and lodged between his fingers, nasty.
 
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