reviving a dead horse on censorship

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Rifleman1776

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There was recently an extended discussion about whether a certain carving displaying a semi-nude female was appropriate/inappropriate for this forum. Originally, Jeff removed the image then put it back for sake of discussion. I was one who felt the image was innocent. Later I made an inquiry on another forum about this type of situation. The response was that "boobs is boobs" and the image would be deleted. It seems moderators would rather err on the side of caution with these matters. I don't always agree with the decisions, but I'm just one member and not a moderator. However, I agree that the decisions are decisions of those charged to make them.
 
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Frank,
I saw the carving after it was re-instated.. it was a beautiful piece of art and as far as I am concerned it is just that, a beautiful piece of art... but as you said, rules were set in the beginning as to what the owner and moderators felt is appropriate and they are charged with keeping those rules... personally I don't envy them that responsibility.
 
Art or not, respect is what it comes down to. Yes, constitutionally, one has the right to create it and display it, however, one does not have the right to display it where ever they so choose. The powers that be ask of us, while visiting their site, to keep it family friendly. So out of respect we should abide by thier request. Some may allow such "art" in their homes while others do not. It is the right and unselfish thing to do by not offending others. And in retrospect, how much quality of life does a thing such as this add??
 
dead%20horse.jpg
 
I had a friend once who was a writer and also in the ministry. I remember a discussion with him about his writing. He told me that it was Christians that limited his writing skills. There was some argument over this. He said the Christians were too offended by how he really wanted to write, and were too quick to censor, styfling his personal creativity.

I asked him that since he was a Christian and in the ministry on top of that, why he did not have a committment to God more so than his desire for writing. He looked at me and asked me to explain. I told him that just because he had a creative writing streak (ability), that didn't give him a license to do what would offend many people, even if some were not offended.

Then I told him what he did not want to hear: Paul said it like this - It is perfectly OK before God to eat meat, but if eating meat offended someone, then he would not. (My paraphraze) Most people do not realize this but taking God's name in vain is not about profanity but taking on the name of God and letting people that they are on the side of God (believing in God/Christ) but at the same time being offensive, demanding personal rights, doing things that does not glorify God, and in a manner that will drive people to not want his God. (The short message) This is the real meaning of taking God's name in vain. Being offensive, demanding personal rights and then claiming that they are on God's side - colloquially speaking.

As to the art, what will simple art like that do to a 15 year old boy? Why don't someone tell that 15 year old boy that he should not be aroused by looking at a piece of wood that just happens to look like a woman's breast. Is it OK to show that to your own 16 year old daughter with her date is standing there - just before they go out on a date? Or to the ladies at the church social - would that be OK since the creator is a Christian?

Too many Christians today want the freedom but not the responsibility. Too many Americans want the freedom to do what they want but not the responsibility that goes with it. 99 out of a 100 on this forum may not be offended by the picture. However, for the creator of the "art" to call oneself a Christian and not abide by the spirit of the scriptures and then demand personal rights in the name of creative license is pushing real truth out the window.

The greater a person's creative ability, the greater he should show restraint and the more reponsibilty he should display. To say that we are not responsible for another person's thoughts and feelings on things that we create which might be controversial - is to shirk this very responsibility that goes with creative license in a true "Christrian" context.
 
Originally posted by leehljp
<br />I had a friend once who was a writer and also in the ministry. I remember a discussion with him about his writing. He told me that it was Christians that limited his writing skills. There was some argument over this. He said the Christians were too offended by how he really wanted to write, and were too quick to censor, styfling his personal creativity.

I asked him that since he was a Christian and in the ministry on top of that, why he did not have a committment to God more so than his desire for writing. He looked at me and asked me to explain. I told him that just because he had a creative writing streak (ability), that didn't give him a license to do what would offend many people, even if some were not offended.

Then I told him what he did not want to hear: Paul said it like this - It is perfectly OK before God to eat meat, but if eating meat offended someone, then he would not. (My paraphraze) Most people do not realize this but taking God's name in vain is not about profanity but taking on the name of God and letting people that they are on the side of God (believing in God/Christ) but at the same time being offensive, demanding personal rights, doing things that does not glorify God, and in a manner that will drive people to not want his God. (The short message) This is the real meaning of taking God's name in vain. Being offensive, demanding personal rights and then claiming that they are on God's side - colloquially speaking.

As to the art, what will simple art like that do to a 15 year old boy? Why don't someone tell that 15 year old boy that he should not be aroused by looking at a piece of wood that just happens to look like a woman's breast. Is it OK to show that to your own 16 year old daughter with her date is standing there - just before they go out on a date? Or to the ladies at the church social - would that be OK since the creator is a Christian?

Too many Christians today want the freedom but not the responsibility. Too many Americans want the freedom to do what they want but not the responsibility that goes with it. 99 out of a 100 on this forum may not be offended by the picture. However, for the creator of the "art" to call oneself a Christian and not abide by the spirit of the scriptures and then demand personal rights in the name of creative license is pushing real truth out the window.

The greater a person's creative ability, the greater he should show restraint and the more reponsibilty he should display. To say that we are not responsible for another person's thoughts and feelings on things that we create which might be controversial - is to shirk this very responsibility that goes with creative license in a true "Christrian" context.


Geesh - Talk about religious profiling!

Is there an award for being the most over the top?
 
One of the great things about living is a free country is the right to be offended if I want to be. [;)], No matter what we do in life it will probably offend someone some where. If someone does not want to be offended then do not go out in the world. let the moderators set the rules then live by them. Just do not try to expect others to live by your personal standards.
 
Originally posted by leehljp
<br />I had a friend once who was a writer and also in the ministry. I remember a discussion with him about his writing. He told me that it was Christians that limited his writing skills. There was some argument over this. He said the Christians were too offended by how he really wanted to write, and were too quick to censor, styfling his personal creativity.

I asked him that since he was a Christian and in the ministry on top of that, why he did not have a committment to God more so than his desire for writing. He looked at me and asked me to explain. I told him that just because he had a creative writing streak (ability), that didn't give him a license to do what would offend many people, even if some were not offended.

Then I told him what he did not want to hear: Paul said it like this - It is perfectly OK before God to eat meat, but if eating meat offended someone, then he would not. (My paraphraze) Most people do not realize this but taking God's name in vain is not about profanity but taking on the name of God and letting people that they are on the side of God (believing in God/Christ) but at the same time being offensive, demanding personal rights, doing things that does not glorify God, and in a manner that will drive people to not want his God. (The short message) This is the real meaning of taking God's name in vain. Being offensive, demanding personal rights and then claiming that they are on God's side - colloquially speaking.

As to the art, what will simple art like that do to a 15 year old boy? Why don't someone tell that 15 year old boy that he should not be aroused by looking at a piece of wood that just happens to look like a woman's breast. Is it OK to show that to your own 16 year old daughter with her date is standing there - just before they go out on a date? Or to the ladies at the church social - would that be OK since the creator is a Christian?

Too many Christians today want the freedom but not the responsibility. Too many Americans want the freedom to do what they want but not the responsibility that goes with it. 99 out of a 100 on this forum may not be offended by the picture. However, for the creator of the "art" to call oneself a Christian and not abide by the spirit of the scriptures and then demand personal rights in the name of creative license is pushing real truth out the window.

The greater a person's creative ability, the greater he should show restraint and the more reponsibilty he should display. To say that we are not responsible for another person's thoughts and feelings on things that we create which might be controversial - is to shirk this very responsibility that goes with creative license in a true "Christrian" context.
Well said.
 
OK, folks. We've beet thet hoss to deth.
My point only was the moderator is the moderator.
Where a mod, in this case Jeff, decides to draw the line might be short of where I, or others, might draw it.
Please, fini.
 
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />OK, folks. We've beet thet hoss to deth.
My point only was the moderator is the moderator.
Where a mod, in this case Jeff, decides to draw the line might be short of where I, or others, might draw it.
Please, fini.



Just so we understand each other.

It was over until you opened the can of worms.
 
leehljp,
I have to say that I agree with you. People are so afraid of judging that there is no longer any accountability. That being said, I would say your post was as wrong, maybe more, as the post that originally started this bruhaha. Religion and politics are 2 things (absolutely) not to be discussed on this site. I think your post violated the religious rule. If we agree that this is Jeff's site and we will abide by his rules, we need to abide by all his rules...not just the ones we agree with.
I would love to discuss it in pm's.
 
Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />
Originally posted by leehljp
<br />

Geesh - Talk about religious profiling!

Is there an award for being the most over the top?

I do apologize for not reading the original post on this, so I did get in on the dead horse part. At that point, maybe none of us should have posted. But . . we did.

The original poster equated within his post that his "art" as being OK because he was Christian. Being a Christian does not justify certain kinds of art. That is wrong. To let even one person think that it is OK - is wrong.

Some people will not post on a morality issue because deep down they down they don't like morality and see morality as a limit to freedom, but they don't know the principles that this country was built up on - <b>Responsibility as well as freedom.</b> We love freedom but brand "responsibility" as beating a dead horse.

This is a public fourm and personally I do keep my faith out of it on another forum and even moderate others from doing it also. I would have kept it out here had it not be equated with the art itself and then not objected to by the moderators.
 
I think people posting pics of beating a dead horse - like this kind of post! [:D] They keep reading it and posting pics. [;)] And keep it going. . and reading and posting more picts. [;)]
 
Just some observations.....
I sort of got a kick out of some of the beating dead horse pictures [:D]

I think the moderator should be able to moderate.

While I find nothing wrong with the picture, I don't believe it's value out weighed the possibility of an adult feeling slightly embarrassed if they were looking at this forum with a 10 year old.

I agree with Lee's statement "Too many Americans want the freedom to do what they want but not the responsibility that goes with it."

I believe too many people get up tight if their religion is mentioned in not a glowing fashion

The posts in this part of the forum usually does not have anything to do with pens and that's fine by me

The spell check here stinks [V]

AND this is probably one of those posts I probably should not post
 
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