Questions about Resinol 90C

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Jim Smith

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I did a bit of searching on the net and found a knife making site that had a thread on wood stabilization. It seems that the product Resinol 90C is actually made specifically for wood stabilization and they are getting excellent results. I was wondering if anyone here had tried this product. If it is a good as the knife makers say, then I would be interested in splitting the cost of a shipment with someone else in the SE chapter of IAP. It comes in four gallons and costs $300 delivered. Your thoughts...

Jim Smith
Conyers, Georgia
 
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Resinol 90c is not made specifically for wood stabilizing. It is actually made for industrial applications to seal metal, I believe.

I have not used Resinol 90c but have used a product that is supposed to be the same called Permabond 90c. It is almost water thin and penetrates quite well. It does the best of any home stabilizint material I have used but is still not quite as good as professionally stabilized blanks.
 
Hey Curtis, where did you get the Permabond 90C?

I have heard good things about the Resinol 90C on the Pool Cue making sites., but have shyed away because of the cost. I would be in on a buy if we could get one more person in, or 2 more, then it would be 1 gallon each for only $75.00 plus shipping from someones house to the other 3.

Jim, what do you think about that idea?

Let me know,
Steve
 
That was my thoughts as well. With so many people in the SE chapter, I was thinking we should be able to get enough people to make this possible. Any more takers???

Jim Smith
 
I started using Resinol about 2 months ago. So far, It appears to work quite well. I've had several blocks of spalted maple on my shelves for 10+ years that was so soft it could be picked apart with your thumbnail. After a Resinol pressure treatment and a 2 hour bake in the oven, the maple is hard and consistent in density. This maple was some of the worst, punky maple that I've come across. I used this maple for some small turnings that I tried to stabilize with CA, Minwax, and a few other products, but always met with mediocre results. The blanks were 7/8 in and the 90C appears to have had complete penetration. I've processed Black and Red Palm, Spalted Cherry Burl, Maidou Burl, Spalted Afzelia Burl and Spalted Madrone with great results.....So Far!

Here is a pic of the of an Imperial FP made from the first batch of the above mentioned Spalted Maple.
 

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How much pressure did you put on it? How hard did it make the Maple? How did it take a finish?

I'm sure there are more questions here but I've had a day of driving and am not thinking too well.
 
Glass Scratcher said:
How much pressure did you put on it? How hard did it make the Maple? How did it take a finish?

I'm sure there are more questions here but I've had a day of driving and am not thinking too well.
Click to expand...

The maple was under 80lbs of pressure for 48hrs....I had it in a batch with some other blanks that were not as punky and I wanted to make sure that I got total penetration. This Maple was soft enough that I could have put it under pressure for only 24 hours.

After the oven cure for 2 hours at 225-250 degrees, the maple was hard enough that you make only a slight mark with your thumbnail (if you really tried).....The before and after is remarkable.....I'll get a pic of the before and after test blanks. This Spalted Maple was so bad that my first thought was that it may be unusable.....so it sat on a shelf for all those years. I knew eventually there would be some way to save this beautiful spalt. The test blanks that I treated, polished like glass and I knew that I had something that I could work with. I'm happy to report that the Resinol treated spalt sanded quite evenly on the lathe (considering the original condition of the wood)

I have no idea as to how close my procedure is to the actual Loctite instructions. The only instructions that I have seen are for treating metals. I'm told that once the Resinol 90c is cured, you can check penetration with a black light....I don't have one, so again, I'm guessing. But, I can smell the Resinol when I drilled for the tubes. So, I haven't a clue...All I know is that the way that I did things appears to have worked. What I can tell you is that I know this maple would not have been usable without the Resinol.

The pen in the photo was finished with thin CA and was very easy to apply.

The Resinol does not appear to seriously change the color of the wood. The Cherry Burl that I treated did not darken.

Any info I had came from a knifemaker's forum.

I gotta say that I'm happy with the results and will be running a few more batches in the near future.

thewishman.....Yes, It is gorgeous maple and thank you for the kind words.
 
If this works I think there are a couple of stabilizing businesses that may want to consider lowering their prices??? I believe I will try some based on what I am reading here.
 
jdwhip96 said:
If this works I think there are a couple of stabilizing businesses that may want to consider lowering their prices??? I believe I will try some based on what I am reading here.
Click to expand...

John....I got my Resinol90c from ironwoodknives.com. It sells for $125 a gallon. It comes in quarts also for $35. This was the only place that I found to get it online. It was even difficult to come by going through a Loctite dealer. I was referred to a distributor. It seems that this stuff is a big secret.
 
How much Resinol did you use for your batch of blanks or planked wood? Or perhaps I should ask how many blanks were in a batch and how much Resinol did you immerse them in? How much Resinol remained after the treatment to be used for/during a future treatment?
 
Glass Scratcher said:
How much Resinol did you use for your batch of blanks or planked wood? Or perhaps I should ask how many blanks were in a batch and how much Resinol did you immerse them in? How much Resinol remained after the treatment to be used for/during a future treatment?
Click to expand...

I used 4 stacked pyrex baking dishes with about a dozen blanks in each dish. Resinol was poured over the blanks...enough to cover the blanks. I placed several small dowel rods over the blanks to keep the blanks submerged in the "Rez". I stacked the pyrex dishes in my pressure pot and pressurized.....I have a 5 gallon pot.

After 24 hours, I checked the level in the dishes and did some replenishing. The blanks were still bubbling as the Resinol was forcing the air out of the blanks. Another 24 hours later, I removed the blanks and put them into the oven for several hours. The blanks were left to cool on cookie racks. I've done about 75 or 80 blanks with the gallon of "Rez" and have a little more than 2 quarts remaining. So. a little seems to go a long way. I've been told that the shelf life is indefinite on the "Rez" if it is refrigerated after the catalyst is added. The stuff that I got from Ironwood Knives already had the catalyst added.

I still think that there is a fair amount of experimentation to do, but I think that at the very least, I'm on the right path.

One more thing....I have the remaining Resinol refrigerated with a blast of Bloxygen in the can.

I hope i'm providing some decent info for you all......I'm by no means an expert here!....I just know that so far ....so good!!!!!
 
Thank you for all the helpful info. This issue of stabilizing will eventually become open and not a secret to known by only a few. I just bet they are laughing their a__s off, but just wait. He who laughs last laughs best...or something like that. If they would just come out and say you have to be licensed to use the stuff and the reason was so they could monitor proper disposal then I could live with that. But something tells me that the ones using these products are not disposing of them, they are using them up, nothing to throw away. And if they are disposing anything there is no monitoring going on.
 
Glass Scratcher said:
Ok one last question for the moment. Have you tried adding any Dyes or pigment to a portion of the Resinol and applying it?
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I haven't done it yet, but when I do, the dye will most likely be a separate step. I don't want to color the "Rez" because it will be used with other woods.....Although I suppose that the could be dissolved in the "Rez"....it is very viscous. I was going to use aniline dye dissolved in alcohol.

I have some Box Elder burl cut for a dye experiment...Just haven't got around to it yet!
 
This needs a little bit of clarification. Resinol doesn't exactly have "indefinite shelf life" after the catalyst has been added. I got this from talking with a Loctite sales rep. 5 to 6 years ago. He said that it has about 1 year of shelf life. It's possible that refrigeration will extend it, but still it will be limited. However, in an industrial setting where the old resin is continually being used and continually replenished or mixed with fresh stock, the limited shelf life issue never comes into play.

Steve




hstudio said:
I've been told that the shelf life is indefinite on the "Rez" if it is refrigerated after the catalyst is added. The stuff that I got from Ironwood Knives already had the catalyst added.
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I'll add this to the thread ... I have two of Curtis' stabilized blanks and I would put their quality up to those that are professionally done. I believe he used the Permabond 90c as a stabilizer and from just trimming the ends of his blanks the penetration is 100%.

From what I have read through the past couple of years I firmly believe these 'professional stabilizing' folks are using the same Permabond 90c and a vacuum chamber and THEN cooking the wood while under pressure for a set period of time. BTW, it seems they also require that the wood is at or near 10% moisture content to begin with.

Somewhere in my mind I seem to remember that Resinoil is now being sold under the name of Permabond 90c. Why the name change ... I have no idea.
 
Here are two links to the Loctite Resinol 90C product. One is for the Technical Data Sheet (TDS) and the second is for the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS).

Interestingly the TDS talks about curing the sealant in hot water at (90C / 194F) for 4 to 10 minutes. Not sure how that would equate to uage in wood though.


NOTE: Some mention of a catalyst has been made in this thread. Reading through the TDS on this product no mention is made of any catalyst being needed. Heat is the only thing that cures this product from what I can see in the spec sheets.
 
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Someone also mentioned Permabond 90C. I can't find anthing about that but there is a Permabond product "Permabond 910" which is a methyl cyanoacrylate (Methyl-CA) product that is designed for "fixturing of parts". I suspect this is very similar to the CA we use to seal our blanks.


The link to that product follows:
 
I got a 4-gallon jug of the Permabond 9090 and gave out to several people to test. It does not take a catalyst, and is very thin in viscosity. I was told this is a comprable product to Resinol 90C.

The down side with the permabond, is it sets up at very low heat. I had it get hard when shipping during the summer months. Also it turns very hard in about 4 months sitting in 70-75F room.

It was easier dealing with Permabond than it was Loctite. The sales rep for Loctite would not hardly take your call unless you was a big company and they could come look at your process.

If you want anymore information, PM me.


Thx.
 
I will add what I can to this thread. Some of this information has probably already been mentioned some may be new.

I use Resinol 90c for all of my stabilizing. I have been through 12 gallons of the stuff in the last 6 months and have stabilized hundreds of knife handle blocks and pen blanks. Here is what I have experienced and learned along the way.

I use a combination of vacuum/pressure to stabilize my product with very good results. I submerge the blocks/blanks to be stabilized (I use metal weights to hold them under if necessary) and pull a strong vacuum until the air bubbles stop. I allow them to obtain equilibreum overnight and pull vacuum on them again and allow them to sit overnight once again (in the refrigerator). For most woods this is sufficient to obtain complete saturation but for some very dense species I apply 80lbs of pressure instead just to be sure.

The wood must be very dry to achieve best results. 6% moisture content is about perfect but a bit more won't hurt.

90C is in fact named due to the temperature at which the material cures (90 degrees Centigrade or 194 degrees Farenheit).

At room temperature the product has a shelf life of only a couple weeks once the catalyst is added. It will (according to my sales rep) last for years if kept under refrigeration. I go through it too quickly to know that firsthand.

The product readily accepts aniline dyes and I have had very good results using "Trans-Tint" brand dyes.

The product is a fairly unstable flammable liquid with a low flash point and the crystalized catalyst contains free radicals (not sure what that means, exactly). Mine has had to be shipped via freight delivery due to the fact that it can't be shipped UPS, Fed Ex or USPS. It is classified as a flammable material.

The product should be used carefully with an emphasis on personal protection equipment. I use rubber gloves, splash goggles and a half mask respirator with chemical cartridges when handling. I also wear the respirator when sanding or turning wood that has been treated.

The product was designed to be used as a metal porosity sealant primarily within the auto industry but someone along the way discovered this use. It seems to be the standard by which other products are judged so until I hear of something better I'll continue using it with confidence.

I hope this information helps answer your questions.
 
Resinol 90c

I am a professional wood stabilizer and I can tell you that Resinol 90C is a very good stabilizer. You wILL need the proper equipment (vacuum, pressure) to make it work. You WILL NOT buy it for $75 per gallon. More like a little over $100.~~~Dale www.dale-the-burl-guy.com
 
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