Question on university logos

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mranum

mranum

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Wisconsin Rapids, WI
I am giving some pens and most likely boxes as a gift to some people that work at a university. If I make a decal of the logo along with the persons name and put it on either the pen or box is that copyright infringement?
 
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Yes, you had best get the University permission first. They most likely will give it to you for gifts but they might not. Best to ask.
 
When you contemplate using a name, mark or such, you should strongly consider doing a trademark search to determine if it is claimed as a mark by someone else. Unfortunately, since not all marks are registered anywhere, such a search is not conclusive. And a trademark search merely in the United States may simply not turn up any registration for the mark may be registered in another country.
 
bitshird said:
Yes. any reproduction of their logo in any form is infringement
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I have a question about this. If someone were to buy a decal of a university logo and put it on something to give as a gift, or even to sell, why would it be an infringement? The decal has already been purchased so the university got their royalty. A decal is manufactured for the purpose of being stuck on something. Finally, the logo was not reproduced (i.e. drawn, painted engraved, etc.), it was purchased in the form of a sanctioned product.

I hope that this doesn't start a long drawn-out debate, but I am really curious about this.
 
Mike,

I have often had the same thought.

I believe the answer is, "MY legal department is BIGGER than YOUR legal department!!"

The University can afford to stay in court for years, can you??
 
ed4copies said:
Mike,

I have often had the same thought.

I believe the answer is, "MY legal department is BIGGER than YOUR legal department!!"

The University can afford to stay in court for years, can you??
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Good Point. You are probably right. For all I know there may be wording in the copyright laws that somehow prohibits the, "redistribution" of a logo. But no, I could barely afford to drive to court, or even take the bus, yet alone stay there.
 
mbroberg said:
I have a question about this. If someone were to buy a decal of a university logo and put it on something to give as a gift, or even to sell, why would it be an infringement? The decal has already been purchased so the university got their royalty. A decal is manufactured for the purpose of being stuck on something. Finally, the logo was not reproduced (i.e. drawn, painted engraved, etc.), it was purchased in the form of a sanctioned product.

I hope that this doesn't start a long drawn-out debate, but I am really curious about this.
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Mike, I think you can, the company we used to cast silver and gold university charms for sold them to others who made jewelry using them,and no one ever got sued to my knowledge, but like Ed said, it could get contested, I know when UT won the Rose Bowl it cost the company an additional five grand just to market a charm which had NCAA Champs engraved on the backside of a Long Horn holding a rose, they already paid them five grand a year for the right to use their Logo, Ohio State charged them 10 thou. Collegiate licensing is a rip off.
 
My understanding is that using a purchased decal for a gift would be fine, but if you use the purchased logo to add value to something you intend to sell, you could be in trouble.

So if making a gift, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are buying logos by the dozens so that you can sell high end logo pens at the tailgate party, you might want to retain counsel.

Not an attorney, but I did drive by a holiday inn express recently.
 
David Keller said:
My understanding is that using a purchased decal for a gift would be fine, but if you use the purchased logo to add value to something you intend to sell, you could be in trouble.

So if making a gift, I wouldn't worry about it. If you are buying logos by the dozens so that you can sell high end logo pens at the tailgate party, you might want to retain counsel.

Not an attorney, but I did drive by a holiday inn express recently.
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Well see thats why I asked the question. IF I were planning to sell the items to profit from their logo then that is a definite issue, which is not the case here.

Guess maybe I'll ask them then.
 
Use of a University Logo as a gift, for yourself, to sell, without obtaining the document that gives you the right to do so, is illegal. The University's really frown on that big time too. Heck..I crossed that line myself and figured a pen or two wouldn't matter, but I was wrong. If you purchase a legitimate logo and put it on a pen and then sell the pen, you are breaking the law. You have to purchase the legal rights to use the logo for each type of item the logo will embellish, so you want a pen that's one purchase, the coffee cup, yep you have to buy that too and so on. I showed the Administration at MSU my interpretation of their logo. They thought it was great and wanted to know if I was interested in purchasing the rights for it. So I was quick thinking and told them that they were samples I made up for myself to see if it could be done and so they could be submitted for the rights to produce them. Because you have to submit to the University how it is you will be representing them to be juried just to have the right to purchase the selling rights. I did not purchase the rights to make MSU pens, even though I have a guy that will sell them in the University store, I feel that the cost of the rights exceeds the profit value. It was expensive to get those rights, and the pen is time consuming to make. I disposed of the pens in a fashion that I can't talk about.

Yes a gift is still an offense. Some Universities might be a bit lenient. MSU and U of M are definitely not lenient on any offense. They prosecute no matter how small the offense. It's worse than Ed says about they have more lawyers than you and more money...they also have their own police force which is capable of anything a city cop can do. They watch out for this type of stuff very intently. Obviously, what they don't know and don't find out about...that's up to you..so if you make a gift and tell no one and no one finds out, so be it, but do beware that is something they take seriously.
 
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I think that in the case of buying a Logo sticker and applying it. The University would have to take legal action to stop you, and would most likely win. there is also an issue of "Reselling" the Logo when you sell the pen it is stuck to. In effect you are selling their Logo.
I work for a University and I know for a fact you have to have written permission to "sell" anything with their Logo on it. I have never known them to prosicute folks that are sellign old t-shirts at garage sales. But I do know they woudl come after you for selling pens that had a logo on it even if you bought the logo sticker from them..
I also know that the rights to the Logo are not owned by the University, they are owned by the Student Body and the place to go to seek permission is the Alumni Association. In my experience they do not have so much an issue of you using the logo as they are concerned where you will use it. They do not want shot glasses at the local dive tavern having there name on it. They can revoke your use of the logo if they start seeing it at the local biker club brawl and what not.
hope that helps.
 
Daniel said:
I think that in the case of buying a Logo sticker and applying it. The University would have to take legal action to stop you, and would most likely win. there is also an issue of "Reselling" the Logo when you sell the pen it is stuck to. In effect you are selling their Logo.
I work for a University and I know for a fact you have to have written permission to "sell" anything with their Logo on it. I have never known them to prosicute folks that are sellign old t-shirts at garage sales. But I do know they woudl come after you for selling pens that had a logo on it even if you bought the logo sticker from them..
I also know that the rights to the Logo are not owned by the University, they are owned by the Student Body and the place to go to seek permission is the Alumni Association. In my experience they do not have so much an issue of you using the logo as they are concerned where you will use it. They do not want shot glasses at the local dive tavern having there name on it. They can revoke your use of the logo if they start seeing it at the local biker club brawl and what not.
hope that helps.
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Really good info... thanks!
 
Great information here guys. Logos are certainly a "no-no" because of the legal perils discussed.

However, colors cannot be trademarked. The combinitation of tint & hues required for custom designed colors might be trade secrets, but not protected under trademark or copy right laws.

Example: Richard Petty tried to trade mark "Petty Blue" in the 70's. His application was denied. Instead, he chose to keep the "recipe" for the color a closely held secret. He did win a settlement against General Motors, in the 80's, for using "Petty blue" on its Pontiacs, because they used his name before obtaining his permission.

I have sold pens with color combinitions similar to specific organizations. If the buyer chooses to associate that pen with any specific university, team or organization, so be it. I avoid using logos, unless I am commissioned by the ones owning the logos.
 
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Well I did send off an email asking if I was able to do, what I wanted to do, in using the logo on some small handmade GIFTS.

I haven't gotten a response yet but if I do get one I'll post what I find out.
 
Glass Scratcher said:
U of F (Florida Gators) posted a memo some time back that use of Orange and Blue together in any sports related theme was a violation of trademark.

Of course, I don't cast UofF blanks...
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Right..if you made a pen that was orange and blue and put a football on it, they might fight you and although they really shouldn't be able to win that case <unless that's what their logo looks like>, they have more money and lawyers than you. But if you make an orange/blue pen or coffee cup and someone buys it because it inspires them of the gators just due to the colors..they can do nothing.
 
THarvey said:
However, colors cannot be trademarked. The combinitation of tint & hues required for custom designed colors might be trade secrets, but not protected under trademark or copy right laws.
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I think there's still some dispute about that.. many companies hold trademarks
on colors, but they apply to specific use, combinations of colors etc. I think
there has to be an argument that the use of the color is intended to confuse
the consumer (ex. using yellow and black on a film canister, purple foil on
a chocolate Easter Egg etc) for the infringement to be an issue. But I know
that Cadbury claims trademark on the color purple, MrDonalds on red and
yellow, Kodak claims their yellow and black, Dow Corning has dibs on pink
and so on..
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=U10301
 
At the University of Georgia, the answer is a big, fat don't even think about doing it. To use ANY University of Georgia trademark or copyright (even though they stole it) requires the user to purchase a licensing agreement with UGA (I'm sure you have seen the little halographic sticker on the NASCAR stuff) and those start at about $20,000. Further, the UGA Law School is called "Harvard of the South" and they can sue you with law students- rotating in a fresh crew every year!

If you give the Law School Dean the pen you made and good glass of single malt Scotch at halftime, Georgia wins the game, and you promise never to do it again, you can flee! DAMHIKT!
 
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one point here. Most of the major universities do not do the licensing themselves any more. It's the CLC that does all that.

http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishing.nsf/Content/Home.html

It's a one stop shop, but the individual university sets the rules that are followed by them. You can find the royalty rates for all the universities they represent on the site. For example the royalty rate for Clemson is 10%.
 
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NewLondon88 said:
I think there's still some dispute about that.. many companies hold trademarks
on colors, but they apply to specific use, combinations of colors etc. I think
there has to be an argument that the use of the color is intended to confuse
the consumer (ex. using yellow and black on a film canister, purple foil on
a chocolate Easter Egg etc) for the infringement to be an issue. But I know
that Cadbury claims trademark on the color purple, MrDonalds on red and
yellow, Kodak claims their yellow and black, Dow Corning has dibs on pink
and so on..
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=U10301
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Color alone has not been held as a trademark (yet). The combination of color with specific use was allowed as a trademark.
 
THarvey said:
Color alone has not been held as a trademark (yet). The combination of color with specific use was allowed as a trademark.
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BUT, color in combination with the name of a university can be an infringement. So be careful saying Texas Orange (or Texas Pen for one that is orange and white), or things like that.
 
Russianwolf said:
BUT, color in combination with the name of a university can be an infringement. So be careful saying Texas Orange (or Texas Pen for one that is orange and white), or things like that.
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Exactly the point.

The combination of the colors and name is an infringement.

Texas orange and Tennessee orange are very similar.

If I create an orange and white pen, with no mention of either school (either on the pen or used in marketing the pen) it is not a violation. If owning that pen gives the customer some sense of loyalty to their chosen university, that is out of my control.

Now, if I created an orange and white pen using orange resin and a white material to scroll a "longhorn" or a "T", then I have probably crossed the line. Even if I did not copy the logo, I would have created an icon bearing a deceptive resemblance to the logo.
 
"A color trademark must meet the same requirements of a conventional trademark. Thus, the color trademark must either be inherently distinctive or have acquired secondary meaning. To be inherently distinctive, the color must be arbitrarily or suggestively applied to a product or service. In contrast, to acquire secondary meaning, consumers must associate the color used on goods or services as originating from a single source."

Colors used by an University do not meet either criteria.

The color combinations are neither "inherently distinctive" nor "originating from a single source" for instance:
- Auburn University and the University of Virginia, both use Navy Blue and Orange
- The University of Alabama and Harvard, both use Crimson and White
- The University of Texas and The University of Tennessee, both use Orange and White
 
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