grz5
Member
From what I've seen everyone speaks highly about using cactus juice to stabilize their blanks. Does anyone knows if the system works well on dense burls like amboyna?
Question about stabilizing with cactus juice
- Thread starter grz5
- Start date
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Timebandit
Member
HMM.... Why would you want to stabalize Amboyna? This is a very dense wood and doesnt need stabalizing. Its the softer, often spalted and rotten woods, that need stabalizing.
grz5
Member
Timbo
Member
I've been wondering the same thing. The razor handles I make using wood sell better than the acrylics. I finish them with a thicker than normal coat of CA, and soak the endgrain with CA until it wont absorb anymore. I think this seals them pretty well, but I was thinking stabilizing the wood would work even better.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
That's an interesting concept Tim!!
Personally, I believe wood and shaving are not going to "peacefully co-exist". However, if you "plasticized" the wood before making the razor---Interesting concept!!
Personally, I believe wood and shaving are not going to "peacefully co-exist". However, if you "plasticized" the wood before making the razor---Interesting concept!!
Texatdurango
Member
Of all the amboyna I have used I would have to guess NO! Amboyna shaves off nicely but is pretty dense wood. I've made quite a few "worthless wood" blanks under 80psi pressure and the alumilite gets into some pretty tight open grain areas but never really penetrates the hardwood itself.
Your best answer would come from Curtis himself, if anyone knows it would be him, he's probably already experimented with exactly what you are trying to learn AND he knows his woods....even the stuff grown outside of Texas!
BSea
Member
I have a set of amboyna gun grips that are professionally stabilized. It does make sense for gun grips since they are subject to really rough treatment compared to a pen. My suggestion is to have someone use the catus juice system to stabilize a small piece and see what you think.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Of all the amboyna I have used I would have to guess NO! Amboyna shaves off nicely but is pretty dense wood. I've made quite a few "worthless wood" blanks under 80psi pressure and the alumilite gets into some pretty tight open grain areas but never really penetrates the hardwood itself.
Your best answer would come from Curtis himself, if anyone knows it would be him, he's probably already experimented with exactly what you are trying to learn AND he knows his woods....even the stuff grown outside of Texas!
Yes, but as a vendor of the product he has to be very careful how he answers. And, as the head moderator, he is acutely aware of this.
Amazing what happens when certain people complain about advertising and new rules are established for them. Perhaps "unintended consequences"??
Constant Laubscher
Member
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Padre
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,841
I don't know if the cactus juice would penetrate under vacuum, but under pressure? That might be a way to do it. You could drill out the middle of the blank for the razor handle tube, then turn it down some, carefully between centers, then put it in cactus juice, or the stuff of your choice of course, and put it under pressure. If you have a good pressure pot, taking it to 50 or 60 psi might do it.
sbell111
Member
Mesquiteman has noted that he has gotten full penetration with mesquite, which is a pretty dense material. He may not comment on the OP's question simply because he might not have tried amboyna.
grz5
Member
any chance you know how thick the piece of mesquite was?
Linarestribe
Member
In the new rules he can still comment on the subject just not push his product.
I've used cactus juice on soft wood only so far put seemed to easily penetrate. I dyed some buckeye red and it was even all the way through.
I've used cactus juice on soft wood only so far put seemed to easily penetrate. I dyed some buckeye red and it was even all the way through.
sbell111
Member
I don't recall if that was mentioned. The discussion occurred in his cactus juice intro thread in the old 'business classifieds'.
witz1976
Member
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Yes, you are correct Ed, it is a "statement of fact"...however it was still a low blow, especially where he didn't even respond.
Wood was used ---
My first shaving bowl and brush were wood - and never showed any sign of being affected by water.
On the other had my Dad's straight razor had ivory handles. I forget for sure, but I think his shaving brush was wood - I could be wrong about that though. His bowl was porcelain.
While wood will eventually decay with exposure to water, if finished well with a sealing finish it will probably last more than a normal lifetime in shaving because it is not immersed.
My first shaving bowl and brush were wood - and never showed any sign of being affected by water.
On the other had my Dad's straight razor had ivory handles. I forget for sure, but I think his shaving brush was wood - I could be wrong about that though. His bowl was porcelain.
While wood will eventually decay with exposure to water, if finished well with a sealing finish it will probably last more than a normal lifetime in shaving because it is not immersed.
Read carefully
Dan, Ed's statement is not aimed at any individual "certain people" are not Curtis...all Ed's statement said about Curtis is that as a moderator he is very aware of the new rules.
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Yes, you are correct Ed, it is a "statement of fact"...however it was still a low blow, especially where he didn't even respond.
Dan, Ed's statement is not aimed at any individual "certain people" are not Curtis...all Ed's statement said about Curtis is that as a moderator he is very aware of the new rules.
Timebandit
Member
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Yes, you are correct Ed, it is a "statement of fact"...however it was still a low blow, especially where he didn't even respond.
Dan, Ed's statement is not aimed at any individual "certain people" are not Curtis...all Ed's statement said about Curtis is that as a moderator he is very aware of the new rules.
But why mention it?
Why Not
Why not? You say whatever you feel like saying --- what is your concern when someone else does?
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Yes, you are correct Ed, it is a "statement of fact"...however it was still a low blow, especially where he didn't even respond.
Dan, Ed's statement is not aimed at any individual "certain people" are not Curtis...all Ed's statement said about Curtis is that as a moderator he is very aware of the new rules.
But why mention it?
Timebandit
Member
Why not? You say whatever you feel like saying --- what is your concern when someone else does?
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Yes, you are correct Ed, it is a "statement of fact"...however it was still a low blow, especially where he didn't even respond.
Dan, Ed's statement is not aimed at any individual "certain people" are not Curtis...all Ed's statement said about Curtis is that as a moderator he is very aware of the new rules.
But why mention it?
I dont know...kind of sounded like a shot to me to...maybe not directly at Curtis, but at the rules. No need to mention that Curtis already knows the rules around here, and about the people complaining about advertising and the unintended consequences. The OP asked about stabalizing not about Eds thoughts on Curtis and the rules. His response had nothing to do with the OP's question. What was accomlished with that statement? Nothing. Just got people talking about something other than the OP's question.
To the OP, Curtis will be the best knowledge for you question:biggrin:
wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
Back to the original question. I have been doing a lot of experimenting with Cactus Juice and this friday I will throw a piece of Amboyna into the pot and find out if it penetrates. I also sell a lot of razors and feel the stabilized woods will be better to maintain the looks of the handle. I have tried DIW already and found that it is not very good for stabilizing, I used both vacuumm and pressure.
How does that differ
How does any of that differ from your own post - complaining about somebody elses complaint? Where is your post more necessary?Why not? You say whatever you feel like saying --- what is your concern when someone else does?
Or a simple "statement of fact" depending on your perspective. It IS factually accurate.
Yes, you are correct Ed, it is a "statement of fact"...however it was still a low blow, especially where he didn't even respond.
Dan, Ed's statement is not aimed at any individual "certain people" are not Curtis...all Ed's statement said about Curtis is that as a moderator he is very aware of the new rules.
But why mention it?
I dont know...kind of sounded like a shot to me to...maybe not directly at Curtis, but at the rules. No need to mention that Curtis already knows the rules around here, and about the people complaining about advertising and the unintended consequences. The OP asked about stabalizing not about Eds thoughts on Curtis and the rules. His response had nothing to do with the OP's question. What was accomlished with that statement? Nothing. Just got people talking about something other than the OP's question.
To the OP, Curtis will be the best knowledge for you question:biggrin:
grz5
Member
Ok I understand that people have many opinions about the recent changes.
I started this thread with the intent of learning more about the capabilities of Curtis' stabilization system but it has become platform for people to take shots at the moderator.
I understand that everyone is intitled to their own opinion and should be allowed to voice it but I would greatly appreciate it if we could get back onto the initial topic of this thread (stabilization).
I started this thread with the intent of learning more about the capabilities of Curtis' stabilization system but it has become platform for people to take shots at the moderator.
I understand that everyone is intitled to their own opinion and should be allowed to voice it but I would greatly appreciate it if we could get back onto the initial topic of this thread (stabilization).
wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
I will run the test on the amboyna this Friday and will PM you with the results. I'm done in this thread.
Texatdurango
Member
Ok, let's get back on track and stop this back-and-forth garbage, please....I'm getting sick of people bickering in this thread and others.
If you want to debate, do so via email if both parties are willing - please report violating posts via the yellow traingle, and stop trying to beat each other's brains in in otherwise good threads! Non-moderator vigilateism does not help matters.
Perhaps we should have nap time and juice before we are allowed playtime, eh? Counting blocks will have to wait until after recess...
Andrew
assitant moderator
If you want to debate, do so via email if both parties are willing - please report violating posts via the yellow traingle, and stop trying to beat each other's brains in in otherwise good threads! Non-moderator vigilateism does not help matters.
Perhaps we should have nap time and juice before we are allowed playtime, eh? Counting blocks will have to wait until after recess...
Andrew
assitant moderator
MesquiteMan
Retired Head Moderator
Under the new rules, I can certainly answer questions. I just had not seen this thread yet until it got nasty with all the other crap and got reported. I am sorry for that, Grz5 (both the childish bickering and not seeing the thread).
I have not personally tried using Cactus Juice on Ambonya so really can not vouch for it. I only work with local Central Texas Woods. I believe my comments on stabilizing Mesquite may have been misunderstood just a little. I did indeed get penetration on a piece of 1x1x5.5" mesquite. However, in my tests, I picked up very little additional weight. I know I got penetration because the resin will glow under blacklight and I cut the blank in half lengthwise and looked with the blacklight. Even though I got penetration, I only picked up a 4% weight gain. With really dense woods, there is just not much space in the wood for the resin to go.
Using pressure has not shown to have any significant advantages in my experiments. In most cases, pressure to 80 psi overnight only added a 3% weight gain on average over many different species. The pressure Constant is talking about is WAY higher pressure (5,000 psi) achieved with specialized equipment not found in a home shop.
I hope that helped somewhat. Sorry I can not directly answer you question regarding Ambonya but I sure as heck don't want to tell you it will indeed work if I have not personally done it myself or have good, solid evidence from someone who has. Let's see what Neil comes up with.
I have not personally tried using Cactus Juice on Ambonya so really can not vouch for it. I only work with local Central Texas Woods. I believe my comments on stabilizing Mesquite may have been misunderstood just a little. I did indeed get penetration on a piece of 1x1x5.5" mesquite. However, in my tests, I picked up very little additional weight. I know I got penetration because the resin will glow under blacklight and I cut the blank in half lengthwise and looked with the blacklight. Even though I got penetration, I only picked up a 4% weight gain. With really dense woods, there is just not much space in the wood for the resin to go.
Using pressure has not shown to have any significant advantages in my experiments. In most cases, pressure to 80 psi overnight only added a 3% weight gain on average over many different species. The pressure Constant is talking about is WAY higher pressure (5,000 psi) achieved with specialized equipment not found in a home shop.
I hope that helped somewhat. Sorry I can not directly answer you question regarding Ambonya but I sure as heck don't want to tell you it will indeed work if I have not personally done it myself or have good, solid evidence from someone who has. Let's see what Neil comes up with.
Phunky_2003
Member
Perhaps a PM to Curtis would be your best bet to get good information.
Curtis is real good at having answers to questions on his products. I'm sure you both could work out a phone call to get things situated.
Although I think George is right. This could end up as a good thread to read down the road, especially to those of us who could use the information. I, myself, have been curious about stabilizing some pieces for gun grips and knife blanks.
Curtis is real good at having answers to questions on his products. I'm sure you both could work out a phone call to get things situated.
Although I think George is right. This could end up as a good thread to read down the road, especially to those of us who could use the information. I, myself, have been curious about stabilizing some pieces for gun grips and knife blanks.
grz5
Member
Not a problem. Likewise I'm looking forward to seeing what wolftat comes up with and will be happy to share the information. :biggrin:
Thanks again Curtis!
Thanks again Curtis!
sbell111
Member
I'm not sure that stabilizing the blank will even help do what many are requesting. While I admit to knowing very little on the issue, it seems to me that stabilizing only replaces air in a wood blank with some type of resin. It doesn't protect any exposed wood fibers themselves from taking on moisture, right? As such, only a rock solid water-proof finish will allow for protection against damp environments.
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Texatdurango
Member
Curtis' comment on penetration got me to thinking......... If you are not relying on stabilizing just to keep the wood from flying apart while turning, then couldn't you shape your handles or pens to size THEN stabilize them?
That way, you would make sure the final surface has good penetration, not just the part you turned away!
I have a 6" blank that I turned down to show customers the difference in a "wood feel" finish and a "plastic" CA finish. It is stabalized box elder burl with a CA finish on one half and the other half nothing was applied after turning round and the side that has nothing on it looks just as good as the day I turned it and has been handled a million times over the years. That said I think a stabilized finish can stand on it's own or perhaps a coat of wax!
That way, you would make sure the final surface has good penetration, not just the part you turned away!
I have a 6" blank that I turned down to show customers the difference in a "wood feel" finish and a "plastic" CA finish. It is stabalized box elder burl with a CA finish on one half and the other half nothing was applied after turning round and the side that has nothing on it looks just as good as the day I turned it and has been handled a million times over the years. That said I think a stabilized finish can stand on it's own or perhaps a coat of wax!
Probably
My first thought would be that you are correct in that it will require a watertight finish. For what the OP is considering I would think the same type finish used on wood gun stocks would work.
I used a Spanish American War vintage deer rifle for years and the stock never showed the first sign of rot even though it was over 50 years old when I got it.
My first thought would be that you are correct in that it will require a watertight finish. For what the OP is considering I would think the same type finish used on wood gun stocks would work.
I used a Spanish American War vintage deer rifle for years and the stock never showed the first sign of rot even though it was over 50 years old when I got it.
Constant Laubscher
Member
I shall do so pressure stabilizing on Friday and see what weight gain I am getting under pressure. I have done some tests with stabilized woods and the stuff/blanks I do.
This test was done with Dyed Curly Maple
After 12 Hours in a bucket of water the blanks had gains 3.33% weight (surface dried with a towel)
After 12 Hours the moisture content went up to 14.75% from +/-10%
After 3 Hours the moisture content was back at 11%
After 3 Hours the weight went down from 2.687 oz to 2.653 oz
So yes it does absorb moisture but it is like little straws that suck up the water but releases it just as quickly.
Hope this is useful to some members.
I have some experience ( I stabilize about 2000 BF of curly Maple and about 4000 Lbs of Buckeye Burl a year)
This test was done with Dyed Curly Maple
After 12 Hours in a bucket of water the blanks had gains 3.33% weight (surface dried with a towel)
After 12 Hours the moisture content went up to 14.75% from +/-10%
After 3 Hours the moisture content was back at 11%
After 3 Hours the weight went down from 2.687 oz to 2.653 oz
So yes it does absorb moisture but it is like little straws that suck up the water but releases it just as quickly.
Hope this is useful to some members.
I have some experience ( I stabilize about 2000 BF of curly Maple and about 4000 Lbs of Buckeye Burl a year)
sbell111
Member
Yeah. I was thinking more along the lines of those people who want to stabilize razor handles because they are subject to wetness.
wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
I won't reread this thread, but I will answer what was asked and what I promised to do. The 2 Amboyna burl blanks that I tried to stabiliized using the conventional method(vacuum and oven) did not take much weight on. One blank started at 67 grams and afterwards weighed 71 grams, the second blank started at 56 grams and ended at 60 grams, so the increase was very little compared to the box elder burl blanks that can go in weighing around 50 grams and come out weighing around 70 grams. I would have to say that the stabilizing solution to this wood is not working but would be interested in the results of what happens to it under extreme pressure that Constant can produce.
I will know the results on Monday of some Amboyna blanks that were turned down, drilled undersized and are going to stay under vacuum for the weekend. Monday I will cook them and then drill and turn them and see what happens.
I hope this saves some Cactus Juice and some trouble for others.
I will know the results on Monday of some Amboyna blanks that were turned down, drilled undersized and are going to stay under vacuum for the weekend. Monday I will cook them and then drill and turn them and see what happens.
I hope this saves some Cactus Juice and some trouble for others.
Constant Laubscher
Member
I will only run my test today. Will post the results as soon as they are cured.
DurocShark
Member
This thread has me thinking about other things... Like kitchenware... IE: Spatula handles, knife scales, etc.
I hadn't thought about stabilization making them last longer in wet/harsh environments.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention!!!
I hadn't thought about stabilization making them last longer in wet/harsh environments.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention!!!
Constant Laubscher
Member
Here are my results. Under pressure for 15 min I could gain 10% weight increase. (Better than +/-1.5% in the vaccum test - Wolftat)
I thing If I had left it in longer under pressure and only one type of species the weight would increase to at least 20 -25%.
I had done 8 pieces and the result is the same for all.
I had found that if you do stabilizing with pressure it is better to do one type of wood at a time. If let it soak for a couple of hours it does not matter.
I thing If I had left it in longer under pressure and only one type of species the weight would increase to at least 20 -25%.
I had done 8 pieces and the result is the same for all.
I had found that if you do stabilizing with pressure it is better to do one type of wood at a time. If let it soak for a couple of hours it does not matter.
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grz5
Member
Just to clarify when attempting to stabilize amboyna it is best to do so under higher pressures correct? Sorry if you already stated this but were the pressures achieved using curtis' system?
Thanks