PSI=junk? Looking for opinions, anecdotes ...

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Kaspar

Kaspar

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Aug 1, 2006
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Ahead of the curve. Waaay ahead.
I have generally avoided PSI kits and accompanying products. They seem to me to be poor cousins to the better looking CSUSA and Berea kits. (I've done some slimline type, PSI pens for customers, and they've been adequate. And those new fancy pen boxes are top notch.) I know they're a johnny-come-lately to the high-end kit market, but hey, they're trying.

I decided I would try one of their Apollo elites. It looks like a lot like Berea's Churchill, the appearance of which I like very much. I had painted the tubes to put it in a certain material, then changed my mind, and needed to strip the paint off. So I got out the bushings to put the tubes on the lathe. As I was turning it to sand off the paint, there was so much vibration going on I thought something was wrong with my mandrel, or worse, the lathe. Turns out the bushing set is abysmally off. The play in them is horrible. I know sometimes the tubes are off, but that can't be the whole story. If I shake the mandrel the whole assembly rattles, the tolerances are so pitifully bad. How am I supposed to turn barrels, rounded to my exacting standards, with crap bushings? I imagine if I gripe they would send me another set, but I hate waiting for something that should have been fine to begin with.

Obviously, this has done nothing to allay my already jaundiced opinion of PSI.

Has this happened to anyone else?
 
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What you described with the bushings is something that I find with all makers at times. I learned 4 years ago to order TWO sets of bushings for each pen type - whether from AZS, CSUSA, Berea or whoever.

Most bushings are right on - but out of two sets, I usually find 1 bushing to be drilled off center or with some play. Most are drilled off center.

The way around this is to order two sets (or three), or go mandrel-less and order custom bushings from JohnnyCNC; An alternative is make your own.

Your post indicates that you look for as much perfection as you can get. If this is the case, I would seriously consider mandrel-less and JohnnyCNC bushings. Yes, perfection can be attained with mandrels, but the problems from commercial tolerances with bushings and mandrel sizes - plus the added number of possibilities of OOR/oval turnings introduced with mandrels, it takes too much attention away from the purpose and requires more focus on the mechanical process itself.
 
BRobbins629 said:
If its the same as the Churchill the bushings use a different (larger) mandrel - could this be cause?
Click to expand...

The bushings come from PSI and are specifically for this kit. They are for a 7mm mandrel. On the worst one, it is so loose, that if I move the tube from one side to the other, it moves a good five degrees of arc. I've never seen any bushing this badly off. Not even close.

leehljp said:
What you described with the bushings is something that I find with all makers at times. I learned 4 years ago to order TWO sets of bushings for each pen type - whether from AZS, CSUSA, Berea or whoever.
Click to expand...

That is something I usually do to, though for different reasons. I am familair with how loose they cn be, but I have never had a set this bad.

Most bushings are right on - but out of two sets, I usually find 1 bushing to be drilled off center or with some play. Most are drilled off center.

The way around this is to order two sets (or three),
Click to expand...

Or just round off the eccentricities by rotating the work piece on the mandrel a bit as you're turning it down.

... or go mandrel-less and order custom bushings from JohnnyCNC; An alternative is make your own.

Your post indicates that you look for as much perfection as you can get. If this is the case, I would seriously consider mandrel-less and JohnnyCNC bushings. Yes, perfection can be attained with mandrels, but the problems from commercial tolerances with bushings and mandrel sizes - plus the added number of possibilities of OOR/oval turnings introduced with mandrels, it takes too much attention away from the purpose and requires more focus on the mechanical process itself.
Click to expand...

I am all but certainly going to get a metal lathe this Christmas. In the meantime, this mandrel-less idea sounds promising. Thanks!
 
I am with you. I almost stopped making pens because all I had to go on was PSI standards, and I was constantly getting pissed at the poor quality. I have been thinking of going to a local machinist and having my bushings all custom made. One way or the other, I am DONE with PSI.
 
I can't be done with them, because sometimes they have something a customer wants, and I can usually get around the problems, but thanks for checking in. I won't be surprised to hear other stories like yours.

leehljp, thanks for the heads up. JohnnyCNC's wares look very promising indeed.
 
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Psi just markets kits made by Daycom . They DO NOT make the kits or bushings . I have a set of bushings for the sierra from Berra that one bushing is even worse then what you describe . Quality control from the manufacturers is the problem , I turn all blanks between centers so I know that I don't have any mandrel problems there .
I just got an Apollo Infinity kit from PSI and the bushings that I got for it are all ok . During manufacture there lots of things that can go wrong and there will be on occasion defects . The manufacturers should do better QC then they do . PSI is just a victim of getting a bad set from the manufacturer , how they handle the problem is where they have to take the blame . I have bought hundreds of kits from them and any time I have ever had any problems a quick phone call was all it took to get the problem solved , they have even gone as far sending complete kits to replace a single part , even problems that have gone unnoticed for a month or more were quickly resolved .
I had two Longwood kits out of a batch of 20 that i had purchased that were missing center bands , these were the last 2 that I opened and over a month had gone by , I called them to ask if they could send me replacement parts (I was expecting to pay for them after that length of time , another vendor had charged me for the parts after a similar incident) , they not only sent me 2 full replacement kits , they sent them at no charge and told me to keep the original kits .
I have had only one occasion where their customer service rep was not only not helpful but downright rude and after talking to someone else there they sent me a $25 gift certificate for my trouble , everyone can have a bad day I guess .
Also remember , no one like to be yelled at so if you speak nicely and explain your problem most companies will go out of their way to resolve any problems , if you come across as rude or nasty you should expect to be handled in the same way .
Ok rant over , flame suit on .
 
I guess I am one of the lucky ones that have never had a problem with PSI like I have with other suppliers. I have used their customer service with no problems either. I hope they continue that way.
(Knock on wood)
 
I don't have problems with the kits or supplies I've purchased from PSI or Woodturningz. I use their slim kits, some Euros, a few cigars, nothing high end. There are a few kits that I don't care for, but that's just product preference.

As a generalization, I like the Woodcraft (Berea?) kits a little better, but sometimes it's cheaper and easier to order from PSI.
 
I can't say I've had a LOT of problems with their stuff, but neither have I used their stuff all that much. Up to now it's largely been a matter of preference, though I have had a few twist mechanisms come up broken after minimal use. I even left some glowing reviews about those new fancy boxes -which they did post, though I also left a mediocre review about their acrylic 12 pen holder (the holes aren't deep enough to keep larger pens in place) which they did not post - so I am wondering if they can take constructive criticism.

Anyway, I will call them Monday morning and see if they will make good on this. I hate the wasted time though.
 
I have spend more than $8000 in kits and other things from PSI over the last two years and only had good service from them. Also had no problem with there products.
May be some of the lower end products are bad but I have never bought those.
 
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