Preparing the Brass Tube

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DickVeitch

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Oct 3, 2024
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New Zealand
I have always gently sanded the brass tube before gluing it into the wooden blank. Now I am approaching a major pen making run I have questions about this activity.

What glue will reliably glue a brass into the blank without any sanding of the brass?

Does anybody have a tube sanding system that is quick?
 
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Sanding the tubes gives a ton more surface area for your glue to bond onto. Technically, no, you don't have to sand it, but it reduces chances of seperation significantly.

Granted, I haven't done production quantities, but I've just thrown the tube onto the TBC (turning between center) bushings I'm using and hit it on the lathe really quick. TBC bushings are faster to load, but you could also use your mandrel.
 
You will get members here telling you that you do not need to sand tubes. If that be the case why do they make tubes already presanded. You may want to look into that. Buit I will say this if a minute added to the making of the pen is that much I suggest do not do the run. Haste makes waste. I take a piece of 120 sandpaper and a couple swirls of the tube you added some tooth to it. It is an ounce of prevention. I am an epoxy user to always insert tubes with. I like System3 T88 epoxy. Strong and reliable. Quality rules over quantity everyday of the week.
 
I do sand the brass tubes (BT). I have a wood dowel with an o-ring on it. It just grips the BT and I can slide it on and off. Mount the dowel in the headstock. Slide on the BT. Hit it with 80 grit sandpaper. When doing large quantities, I have two small bowls with the BT. Takes about 10 seconds per tube. Lathe speed low 100 RPM Then go to it! Don't turn the lathe off, just slide the tubes on and off. This is one time I violate the "no gloves" rule. I wear work gloves because that spinning tube will cut a nice circular plug out of a finger.

The first few photos here show a slightly different technique. I have another batch to do for Veterans day and the PA Farm Show.
https://www.penturners.org/media/users/randyrls.2174/
 
If you do not sand the tube, you need to at least wipe them with a closing solvent. There will be some residue in the tubes which by sanding you would be abrading it off.

I like @randyrls method. It's efficient and sounds effective. I bet after you get into a rhythm it's super quick. Alternatively, you could grab two bowls, dump the tubes in one, sand them and deposit it in the other all while watching TV at night with your family.

Good luck on your upcoming production run.
 
Interesting that nobody answered your question about what adhesive to use. I've done it about every way I can think of and I use a 2 part epoxy on all my "good" pens. On my "lesser significance" pens (like the PSI Icon which I use as give aways) I use a medium CA. Aside - I also use the "belt & suspenders" approach and sand the tubes first except the ones that come presanded (acetone wipe). I use a handheld drill with a keyless chuck. I'm REALLY interested in trying randyris's approach. Sounds VERY promising.
 
I sand brass tubes between 60 degree live and dead centers. I do not turn the lathe off to change tubes, or even lock down the quill. Advance until it begins to spin under gentle pressure. Swipe back and forth for 5 seconds with 220 grit, then back off the quill until it falls into my palm.

I use old centers that are already beat up.

I glue with 5 min epoxy. JB Weld. If I were mass producing I would recommend a longer epoxy so I wasn't mixing so many small batches.
 
I'm in the "always sand" camp because I believe it provides more of a surface for the glue to grab.

I typically use CA to glue tubes. Honestly can't remember the brand I'm currently using which is terrible. Even worse is I didn't get up and go into the shop to double check what it is.

However.... If I feel like the tube isn't fitting in the blank well or if it's an especially long tube I'll use 5 minute epoxy. I prefer Gorilla Glue because it's low odor, at least to me.

If you search around there was a discussion earlier this summer about the various glues people use and why. It's an interesting read.
 
Ted iin Michigan said:
Interesting that nobody answered your question about what adhesive to use. I've done it about every way I can think of and I use a 2 part epoxy on all my "good" pens. On my "lesser significance" pens (like the PSI Icon which I use as give aways) I use a medium CA. Aside - I also use the "belt & suspenders" approach and sand the tubes first except the ones that come presanded (acetone wipe). I use a handheld drill with a keyless chuck. I'm REALLY interested in trying randyris's approach. Sounds VERY promising.
Click to expand...
I did. Post #3. Again I use a 24 hour epoxy System#3 T88. Have ever since I started making pens. One less thing to worry about when turning down. Sanding tubes is such a small detail that takes virtually no time to do no matter what way you choose to do them. Why skip it. It means nothing in the time factor of making a pen.
 
jttheclockman said:
I did. Post #3. Again I use a 24 hour epoxy System#3 T88. Have ever since I started making pens. One less thing to worry about when turning down. Sanding tubes is such a small detail that takes virtually no time to do no matter what way you choose to do them. Why skip it. It means nothing in the time factor of making a pen.
Click to expand...
Sorry, JT. I totally missed the end of your post.
 
DickVeitch said:
What glue will reliably glue a brass into the blank without any sanding of the brass?
Click to expand...

T-88 is my go to. Because overkill is just a good starting point.

DickVeitch said:
Does anybody have a tube sanding system that is quick?
Click to expand...

Put the tube on a dowel and a quick (like maybe 2 seconds) against a disk sander. Touch of rubbing alcohol to clean afterwards. Because overkill is just blah blah blah.

Just don't use your thumbnail to hold the tube in place on the dowel, at least not without a block in the middle. It took me about a month to figure out why my nail was getting half-moon grooves etched into it. :)
 
bugradx2 said:
I'm in the "always sand" camp because I believe it provides more of a surface for the glue to grab.

I typically use CA to glue tubes. Honestly can't remember the brand I'm currently using which is terrible. Even worse is I didn't get up and go into the shop to double check what it is.

However.... If I feel like the tube isn't fitting in the blank well or if it's an especially long tube I'll use 5 minute epoxy. I prefer Gorilla Glue because it's low odor, at least to me.

If you search around there was a discussion earlier this summer about the various glues people use and why. It's an interesting read.
Click to expand...
I use thick CA but watched a good YT video where the fellow used two part epoxy. Now to remember who it was.
What is bad is when you step into the shop and can't remember why you are there.
Story: I worked with a lady who asked, "Do you believe in the hereafter?" "What are you talking about?" "Do you go into a room and ask, What am I here after?"šŸ¤£
 
The evolution of tube sanding I went through is as follows:
1) Started by laying sandpaper down and running the tube on top of it - hard to hold sandpaper, sanded my fingers often.
2) Changed to holding the tube, assisted by a Pen Tube Insertion Tool and using coarse emery cloth - it was better.
3) Mounted the tubes on a mandrel using the turning bushings and spun the lathe - worked great, but too much work.
4) Grip the tube with a short piece of this Disassembly Press Grip Tubing and sand with emery cloth. - current process.

I really like where I wound up. It is fast and the grip tubing really works great for holding onto the tube while sanding and did I mention, it is fast - only takes about 10 to 15 seconds for me to nicely sand a tube from end to end and no more sanded fingers. As for glue, I used to use CA Gel. I liked it because it wasn't as runny and drippy, but later I started using 5-minute epoxy. So far it hasn't let me down - I can't say the same thing for CA.

Dave

PS Usually when I see blanks that have blown apart on the lathe, they look like there were voids in the adhesive -- no evidence of glue on the tube. So, if there are any voids between the blank material and the tube visible after I square it, I use one of John Underhill's Casting Silicone Plugs to seal the ends of the tube and then I drip thin CA on the ends so it can run into any of the voids that might be there.
 
I have often considered using a polyurethane adhesive but I have not tried it for pens yet. I know that in general Epoxy has a stronger bond than polyurethane, especially when gluing rigid materials together. Polyurethane performs better than epoxy if the substrates have any degree of flexibility because it makes a more flexible (less brittle) bond.

Typically polyurethane glues take longer to set than the epoxies like 5-minute epoxy.

The other factor is that polyurethane glues cure by absorbing moisture from the air and from the substrate materials. This usually results in some degree of foaming which is not necessarily a bad thing as it can help with adhesion wherever voids are present, however the foam is not as strong against shearing forces.

And it has been my experience that polyurethane glues have a shorter shelf life, especially after they have been opened.

If I were to use polyurethane, I would likely start out with the clear Gorilla glue which is advertised as non-foaming. The original, brown, foams the most and takes the longest to cure as compared with the white Gorilla glue. The clear of course is essentially non-foaming.

Dave
 
Thanks to all of you for these helpful replies.
The short mandrel and100rpm described by Randyris will be my next test - looks good for speed and complete sanding of the brass. I plan to work with batches of 40 pens so will sand 80 brasses at a time and then glue those 80 to reduce oxidation time of the brass and chances of other things spoiling the nice sanded surface.
In the past, whenever possible I have used Gorilla glue. Problem is that it dries in the pot. Thus I have used CA glue from time to time and always fear that it is leaving voids as described by egnald. Now I also have a supply of Loctite HB S309 Purbond which also expands within the joint. I like to think that this and Gorilla and other polyurethanes will give a greater probability of a thorough brass-glue-wood contact.
 
One thing to be careful of with polyurethane is the chance that the expansion effort will slide the brass tube out of the blank. Happened to me at least once when I was playing with it.
 
Darios said:
One thing to be careful of with polyurethane is the chance that the expansion effort will slide the brass tube out of the blank. Happened to me at least once when I was playing with it.
Click to expand...
When I built custom fishing rods, some guys tried Gorilla glue to glue the cork grip rings. They didn't like the expanding which made a mess to clean before turning the grip. I'll see if I can find the YT link for that guy. I was impressed.
 
Didn't find that reference in #21 and thought I saved it. That's the second "Duh" for today. Off topic a bit: The first one was turning a pen this afternoon; noticed that the shavings were piled up in the hose for the Shop Vac. After a moment, I realized the hose wasn't connected! I had a long hose on the SV to clean the equipment and floor. Changed hoses.šŸ˜–
 
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