Pen Completion Time

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Rangertrek

Rangertrek

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
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Location
Bossier City, Louisiana, USA
I have only been doing pens for about a year now. I read on another thread about a turner claiming to be able to turn a Euro in 5 minutes - including finish and assembly. This was in ref to a large order of pens.

Am I crazy, or is this just riduclous? :confused:

I cna't imagine doing a pen in 5 minutes. I take that long to just do a finish in CA.

How about you, how long does it take to complete a pen, assuming two barrels and not a Sierra, etc.?

Thanks for any of your insight and experience on this.:)
 
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Rangertrek said:
I have only been doing pens for about a year now. I read on another thread about a turner claiming to be able to turn a Euro in 5 minutes - including finish and assembly. This was in ref to a large order of pens.

Am I crazy, or is this just riduclous? :confused:

I cna't imagine doing a pen in 5 minutes. I take that long to just do a finish in CA.

How about you, how long does it take to complete a pen, assuming two barrels and not a Sierra, etc.?

Thanks for any of your insight and experience on this.:)
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Well all I know is that I would never buy a pen from him. :eek:
 
I can turn any pen B to B and finish with friction polish in about 5 minutes, but I sure wouldn't buy it from myself.
edit in: This doesn't include drilling the blank and gluing in the tube and trimming the barrel.
 
This comes up from time to time and I have to ask why in the world would it be important to go so fast. If you're production turning you quality would suffer. If you're turning as a hobby or for relaxation well I think that answers itself.
Oh I'm not saying it can't be done, just a big WHY?
When I turn a pen for my inventory I want a pen I'd carry....or buy. Good fit and finish as near perfect as I can get it....I don't think someone trying to turn a pen in such a short amount of time is worrying about these things. When I turn a pen to relax.....well time is the last thing I worry about. RELAX is the key word there.
There are times when speed is perfectly acceptable. Say at a turning demo just to prove it can be done...again the quality isn't going to be great...it can be good but given the time constraints, not great.
Safety is another, and to me much more important key. I personally wouldn't want to try and set any speed records around my power tools. You get in a hurry and you're asking to have an accident.
I'll get off my soap box now...the above is just my opinion and isn't written in stone somewhere.
 
Can it be done? Absolutely.

Can the person who is making that claim do it? I do not know. However, if I were placing a bet, I would take the 'Over'.
 
I know one penturner who has a jig with a carbide tip set up on his lathe for production turning. With his jig the turning takes less than a minute,but he still takes 20 minutes to do a pen. If I get in a hurry I can do the turning in 2 or 3 minutes but I average at least 45 minutes to a pen because you cannot get a proper finish if you do not spend some time on it. If I wanted to do a friction polish finish like I did when I first started I could turn out pens quickly but I would not be happy with them and still could not do one in 5 minutes. In my opinion penturning is about doing something I enjoy ,not seeing how fast I can make a pen. If I run into problems and end up spending 2 to 3 hours getting my pen just like I want it that is fine with me.
 
I have never really timed myself. I do not wear a watch or have a clock in the shop.If I worried about how much time I was spending on turning or finishing I would probably mess up more than I do now. Also if I really knew the time spent on some of my pens and sold them I would fell like it was not worth it. So I just take my time and enjoy what I can do with a little piece of wood. I fell god gave me a second chance at life Lifes to short to watch the clock all the time.
 
I guess I just don't get why someone would boast this?

Is it a "my donger is bigger than your donger" type thing?

It is neither a measure of skill nor quality to say that you take 5 minutes to turn a pen, so to me it is rather useless information.
 
jleiwig said:
I guess I just don't get why someone would boast this?

Is it a "my donger is bigger than your donger" type thing?

It is neither a measure of skill nor quality to say that you take 5 minutes to turn a pen, so to me it is rather useless information.
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The poster wasn't bragging about being able to do it that quickly. I forget who it was but someone had asked some questions about very large orders. The '5 minute poster' was one of many who responded. He explained his system for production turning. I believe he made 600 of the same style pen and said after doing many of them he got it down to 5 minutes per pen.

For me it takes over an hour, sometimes 1 1/2 to make a pen.
 
With a little luck I can spend a couple of hours on a pen. If all goes perfectly it will take all day in the shop with few interruptions.
 
Average is 2 hours or so from cutting, drilling, turning, finishing and assembly.

For me it depends on if I am using burls, acrylics and how many time I might need to sharpen my tools too.
 
I think that it's just stupid to claim such an accomplishment regardless of how their little assembly line is arranged! In my opinion it says volumes about the quality of the pens he is cranking out and his attitude towards his business.

It probably takes 2 seconds to mold a plastic BIC pen body and another 1.7 seconds to insert a refill and pop an end cap on. "My pens are as good as a BIC", Is THAT what we are after?

The person who braggs about doing a pen in 5 minutes is probably the same one who says he has to sell it for $75 because his time is so valuable and advertises "Fine HAND CRAFTED Writing Instruments" when he should be advertising "Quick as a BIC only 70X the price"
 
Texatdurango said:
I think that it's just stupid to claim such an accomplishment regardless of how their little assembly line is arranged! In my opinion it says volumes about the quality of the pens he is cranking out and his attitude towards his business.
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Or perhaps it speaks volumes about the skill of the turner. Without seeing the final product, one does not know what quality level is being achieved.
 
I watched a man make pens in a small shop that made 10 pens an hour and pumped out 50 pens a day. He used an assembly line setup and roughly squared the blanks on a disc sander. He turned the pens quickly and then hit them with 220 grit sandpaper followed by a quick coat of Hut PPP. He then slapped them together quickly with no regard for the position of the in cartridge. Grain matching was unheard of for him and the only good thing I can say about his pens is that he did use Ti. Gold for his plating. Speed is the reason he sells his pens for $15 each. His final product is mediocre at best.
 
A neighbor stopped by my garage one night and wanted to see how the pen-making process worked. So, I made him an acrylic pen from start to finish. It was probably the fastest that I've ever gone from start to finish, and it still took me about 40 minutes. I could work faster than I do, but I already make enough mistakes. More importantly, I really enjoy working in my garage, so I prefer for it to take longer.
 
Cutting and Drilling 5-15 minutes
Gluing and Triming 5-10 minutes
Turning, Finishing and Assembly 45-60 minutes.

Time in shop Priceless.

Final product so far anywhere from a junk drawer reject to $225

If I am un happy with a pen I don't always try and fix it. Acttually I would rather keep it to remind me what not to do or use it as a "I dont care if this gets wrecked" pen.
 
I like to take anyone to the shop that has an interest and show them how to turn a pen. I will make one with them. I will select the kit, then I select a blank and they select a blank. I cut mine, they cut theirs etc. I do everything first and then they copy what I've done.

This process usually takes 5-6 hours to complete a pen. They have a much greater appreciation when we're done.
 
Making a pen is like making love....it CAN be done in 5 minutes, but you can be sure that at least one participant will be very dissatisfied with the results and you won't get any repeat customers.

Duck, cover, run, laughing maniacally!
 
GoodTurns said:
Making a pen is like making love....it CAN be done in 5 minutes, but you can be sure that at least one participant will be very dissatisfied with the results and you won't get any repeat customers.

Duck, cover, run, laughing maniacally!
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That has to be the BEST analogy I've heard! Fast and cheap, good and expensive but not fast and good!
 
This discussion comes up every now and then, and it seems there is a lot
of animosity toward anyone who can turn out a pen quickly.
I have to wonder why.

Now, I don't make pens in 5 minutes. I have no desire to. And I think if I
ever got an order for 600 pens, I would quit making them and find another
hobby. I wouldn't enjoy it at all. But, having said all that..

Why do people assume that if someone can do something fast, they must
not be doing it right? I don't understand this. Does everyone really believe
that if you do the same thing over and over (600 times!) you wouldn't get
better? You wouldn't get faster? You wouldn't work smarter?

I wouldn't want to compare people to machines, but if a CNC machine can
do a quality turning in a few seconds, is it such a stretch to think that
someone could work out a system for themselves where they could make
a quality pen in 5 minutes?

This has nothing to do with the question of wanting to do it. It is just
surprising to me to see this attitude that there must be some inherent
flaw in the person who can work smart and fast.
 
NewLondon88 said:
This discussion comes up every now and then, and it seems there is a lot of animosity toward anyone who can turn out a pen quickly. I have to wonder why..........
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I don't think its animosity and I don't think its jealousy. I just think someone who thinks so little of their craft is just putting out junk to make a buck and hurting the entire hand crafted pen arena in the process. Say what you will but spread a handful of pens out on a table made by different pen turners and I'd wager one could easily spot the 5 minute pen!

I was amongst a few friends recently and one told their friend that I made pens and was bragging on me and said they ought to check out my pens when that person said "no thanks, I've seen those things before". Seeing the expression on the persons face and hearing the tone they used I would almost bet their exposure with handcrafted pens was with some piece of ill fitted junk cranked off a lathe in a hurry, one swipe of sandpaper then a quick wipe with a waxy rag before being tossed into a cigar box and rushed off to a flea market or craft show for a quick sale.

I guess I have become jaded by being a member here and seeing the pride everyone shows when showing their work.
 
Maybe these are the same people selling them on Etsy and Ebay for such ridiculous low prices. I still can not figure out how someone could sell a pen for $5 or $10 and make a profit.
 
You can find a Dentist who can pull your tooth in two or three minutes or find one who takes an hour. It is the outcome, not the time involved. But I am sure most here would not want to have one tooth worked on for a solid hour when the fellow down the street can be done in two minutes and cause the patient a heck of a lot less pain. I pull teeth for a living and I can get 99.99% of teeth out in just a couple minutes, without any problem. In fact most people just can not believe how simple they can come out. Took me years of steady work to get to that point. We are talking about several thousand teeth a year. People are amazed when I get done. Many wonder why I charge more for complex teeth extractions when it takes only two or three minutes for the entire process. Snapped off at the gumline, curved roots, decay, they all have a simple and non-traumatic way out if you know what you are doing. It is not brute force it is very selective force that I use. Took a long time to get good at that one task.

Every task in life has a simple order to it and if you need to, or want to, you can learn. This is a hobby, so most do no mind spending time spent doing a task. That is what they are doing, filling up time with something that they like to do. Like singing a song to relax. These people may take hours on each pen and they are happy.

I am the person who had an order for 600 pens. By the end of that order I could turn a Euro pen faster than most. I learned to be very organized, do task in efficient ways and be efficient which ended up making me fast. I also learned how to sharpen tools to what some call scary sharp. You can not turn fast with dull tools. Production work, which this became to me, must be done efficiently or you have total ciaos. Every night I would start with trimming X number of pen blanks, turn X number of pens, then sharpen my tools, cut, drill and glue tubes in pen blanks for the next nights work, restock supplies and clean up my mess. Three, four, five hours a night. Trust me if you do this every night for a week you either get fast and efficient or find another hobby. My advice is not to take the order in the first place unless you want a second job. Have a hobby and enjoy it.

I turn mostly single tube pens these days and do not go fast. Faster than a few maybe but slower than most others. A friend of mine can turn a bowl in about a tenth the time I take. He has done hundreds if not thousands of them. And I have no desire to get faster like he is.

Have fun and keep turning.
 
Texatdurango said:
I just think someone who thinks so little of their craft is just putting out junk to make a buck and hurting the entire hand crafted pen arena in the process. Say what you will but spread a handful of pens out on a table made by different pen turners and I'd wager one could easily spot the 5 minute pen!
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I disagree. Some people possess both the skill and (more importantly) the desire to turn quickly. Others prefer to take a more relaxed approach. But quality and time are not necessarily directly proportional.
 
I think that a 5 min pen is doable. If you are properly prepared and don't have to run around looking for stuff and you know exactly what you are going to do, it can be done... even with drill and glue. It would be tight with no wasted motion but a production turner could do it.

Now could I do one in 5 min?? No way. I am WAY too disorganized and still have a fear of the blank. I can't roar through the wood like some of these guys do. I nibble away at the wood and that takes time. And finishing... forget it. It takes me more than 5 minutes just to figure out HOW I'm going to finish the pen!!
:redface::redface::redface:
 
I think you could compare this to a small furniture shop. I can make a piece of furniture but it would probably take me weeks because of lack of tools and skills. However a small one man furniture shop could probably make the same thing in a matter of hours (minus finish) because he has been doing it for a while and knows how to do it faster. Which piece of furniture probably turned out better? Do you think he enjoyed making his any less? Me personally I would have been very unhappy with my result because I am unsure of my skill in the furniture area and I hate making mistakes. The same could be said for any hand crafted skill. If you do this for a hobby you can take all the time in the world. If this is a business then you have to get faster and better or you can't turn out the numbers to make it work. Does a hobbyist turn a better product then a business? Not from what I am seen. You can use this comparison for a lot of hand crafted things. It might take me days to make a gun stock because I haven't made my first one yet but I know of some people that can turn out a $5k gun stock in less then a day. Would mine be better because I took longer? After saying all of this, please understand that I do not turn a five minute pen. I tend to take my time but I also get frustrated quickly and have to walk away 90% of the time because I demand perfection of myself. I think with time I will get faster and better at this and my time per pen will get better. I also think that the quality will get better and not worse as I get faster. To me that is the difference between a master and a student.
 
mrcook4570 said:
...But quality and time are not necessarily directly proportional.
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Absolutely, Stan. I have turned some in about 5 minutes (both wood and acrylic) and they were of no less quality than any of my others. But these were relatively simple blanks with simple shapes. I would never attempt to try this with one of my segmented or inlaid blanks. Just too much to risk.
 
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