one thing ive noticed

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wizical

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
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423
Location
Los Angeles, ca, USA.
I have noticed on this site is that people are completely stealing other peoples ideas, but that isnt what bothers me, what bothers me is that they pass it off as their own and that gets to me. i cannot stand Plagiarism in any form. We would never do it in school, so why do it here. We are all creative people here, we should come up with our own ideas. this has probably come up before, just my own rant. thanks
 
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I am not sure what you mean but I come here to share. Anyone who gets my ideas and use it or incorporate to theirs is welcome and I actually appreciate.

Knowledge wise it is the same. I share mine and those that I picked up along the way. Do I claim them as my original? No but I cannot always say I read it posted by so and so. I also don't know if it is that person's original idea.
 
Reminds me of a friend's favorite quote/signature line from another forum who passed recently.

"A candle loses nothing lighting another."

I love this and love the guy who lived sharing knowledge and helping others. [^]
 
I don't know what you mean either. I haven't seen anybody use someone elses ideas and then say they invented or discovered it. People are often giving kudos to others for the inspiration. If you don't want people to try your designs, don't post them. We are here to share. Techniques are freely shared, why not designs?
 
If ideas belonged to the people who thought of them first, and nobody else could use them, none of us would be making pens. The longer I am in this, the more I realize there are precious few truly original ideas. But then I haven't seen many people trying to claim they are the ones who came up with an idea. For most of us it is fun learning new things and acquiring new skills, but we don't try to pass off a slimline as the "first of it's kind"!

The IAP was established with the purpose of providing penturning education. Most of us here share freely. Most of us also adapt things to our way of thinking, and thereby make it into something new. But if the idea bothers you that somebody here might make a pen that looks just like one of yours, then maybe you're here for the wrong purpose.

The only thing I like better than having a bunch of people steal my ideas, is if they improve upon them at the same time! [8D]

Scott.
 
I'm a bit puzzled as well, Keven. I don't recall ever seeing anything that was claimed to be original and wasn't. Not saying it hasn't happened, I just don't recall seeing it. Then again, many of us have the same ideas at nearly identical times. For example, immediately after seeing Curtis' first Cactus pen I had the idea to use loofa. However, another member beat me to actual production by a about a month. Does that mean he stole MY idea? Or that I stole his because he actually beat me to production? I've never seen anyone make a "Morning After" replica, clone, whatever without giving credit to Ron for the idea. Same goes for Curtis and his cactus blanks... and the list goes on. Many of our members don't mind sharing their ideas or successes. And that's a good thing. If I ever come up with a truly unique creation, I may keep it to myself, but again I may not. All are likewise free to do the same.;)
 
Keven,
I'll add to the list of those confused. I've not seen anyone on this site claim that they designed something they clearly didn't.
It's been reported to have happened elsewhere.
Is there a specific post you have a problem with?
 
Well said Scott. I've made some pens I thought to be my own idea---but the longer I design and make things the more I realize I was likely not the first to do something.

I remember the first (kit based) closed end pen (I'd seen which perhaps wasn't the first) which was shared at the Yahoo penturner's group several or more years ago---and I've seen many now who have progressed that type of pen---and hopefully it'll just get better and better.

I am one who likes to share my ideas, and I've always encouraged others to use my ideas if they would like to.
 
I think something similar to this came up a few months ago. Every single thing I have done in making pens, with one possible exception, has been "stolen" from someone here or from someone in the PMG. I have never claimed anything as something I originated. As Tom said, even if I didn't see it here it's likely someone else has already done it. The one exception to this is that I may have been the first to make a pen from real bone, Whitetail deer leg, but that was just a different material.

Don't ever ask for a tutorial.
 
Kevin,add me to the list of confused(LOML claims I live in the state of confusion)I have never seen a post on the IAP that claimed that they had invented,designed,or had an Idea,that was stolen from someone else.When someone makes a snakeskin pen that they pore themself 90% of the time Don Ward is given credit as the king of snake skin blanks,same goes for cactus and worth-less wood casting Curtis Seebeck is the man and I've never heard any different from any other member and the list goes on and on. Please do all of us a favor and point out any post that hints of plagiarism.
 
Originally posted by PenWorks


Did I ever tell you time when I inventd the fountain pen? [}:)] :D
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Anthony, you liar, Al Gore invented the fountain pen!!

Keven, lighten up. I have never had a totally original thought in my life, and that probably goes for most of us.
 
I've look on people's pen websites and notice different things that people say that a certain kit is their own which i know isnt. or when people use certain verbage knowing all too well that it isnt theirs or they couldnt reword it. that is what bugs me
 
Personally, I think there is an great deal of sharing and that is wonderful. As for my site for example, there have been many things I have had to clear with people or companies to use their products or images. This is just part of having a site. If you are talking about web sites, well, contact the site owner if you must. Personally, not that there is anything wrong with a kit, but I don't know if it is the greatest selling point to point out to everyone that you made it from a kit, you will not see that word on my site and I don't see it on yours. Everyone here is hear to share and learn. Those that sell pens are of course going to take what they learn and apply it to the ones they sell. For those making custom blanks, there is an understanding that it could be sold and they probably will not get credit for it as when it comes down to it, you can buy your blanks from a guy, or a company, it's still a blank you've bought to make "your pen." Most of the pen companies understand they are making kits and products for those that are going to turn around and sell them. They provide copyright waivers for photos and print work, you just need to ask and go about it the right way and there are sometimes costs involved. Again, everyone here is here to share. You see something that doesn't sit right with you, let the person know, they might not know they even did anything wrong.;)
 
Let me just add, I have enjoyed being a thief around here and for those that want to steal from me, I don't think you'll find very many gems in my head, but go right on ahead![:p] Gee, I wonder where the Euro and Twist pens came from? Aren't those kits copies from somewhere?:D
 
You know, Kevin, that's a pretty bold statement considering that you show a polychromatic, segmented pen on your site and claim "I have expanded my woodturning using the process called ‘segmenting’" WITHOUT giving credit to anyone. Somehow I doubt seriously that you invented segmenting, yet nowhere do you give credit to the inspiration for your NOT coming up with your OWN ideas. And while I'm on the subject, I'm sick to death of folks claiming to have "invented" ANYTHING. If you invented it, patent it, copyright it, trademark it. Or shut up about it. Once you have to defend an invention before an authority and proved the invention to be unique and uniquely yours, then you have a real claim to an invention. Otherwise you're just the most recent to CLAIM the invention...and that goes for Al Gore, too.
 
Originally posted by wizical

I have noticed on this site is that people are completely stealing other peoples ideas, but that isnt what bothers me, what bothers me is that they pass it off as their own and that gets to me. i cannot stand Plagiarism in any form. We would never do it in school, so why do it here. We are all creative people here, we should come up with our own ideas. this has probably come up before, just my own rant. thanks
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Kevin you need to stop posting these rants, you make no sense and no one likes to be called a thief!

You accuse folks of stealing other member’s ideas and yet you yourself are on this forum like a sponge soaking up every drop of information you can, using others ideas and I find that a bit hypocritical! Are we to assume that you came up with the segmented design of the pen on your website “out of the clear blue†or just wake up one day thinking you had a unique idea? Come on, who are you kidding?

Do you realize that you are one of the vary people you speak of? I would like to remind you of a post you made back in November where you said... "this will be my first attempt at trying to do a CA Finish, I was wondering if there is a link or article that breaks it down step by step to how it is done</u> and what supplies would be needed. any help would be greatly appreciated"
http://162.42.234.18/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29809

Actually I find that and other “beginning†questions you have been asking recently odd since on your website you say you have been making pens since 2005!

I would suggest cleaning up your own act before posting rants making wild accusations!
 
If it is the ones on the site...you also don't know if they plagiarized or not.

I, for one have some content on mine that I copied from a friend who gave me permission to use it (btw he got his from another member the same way). I did not put any acknowledgement but we agreed on that too.

What I am saying is...it is unfair for you to pass judgment unless you really checked the facts.
 
I agree with all the replies but, in the spirit of IAP I think the point had been made. Threads like this are not healthy. [xx(]

Change subject to distract them:

So, did you guys see the sweet Modified Euro Pen that igran7(Joe) made. It is in SOYP's.;)
 
Hey everyone, SPEAK FOR YOURSELF! I have created some originals and my wife makes me throw them away! If I had posted them, they would have to be in the Comic Forum! I didn't plan them that way, they just turned out that way. :D I just can't "see" the inside like Eagle does!
 
I liked dario's answer about the candle. If you were not proud of your creation, you wouldn't show it here. Besides, copying your creation is the highest form of flattery
 
Kevin,
I will admit to using ideas from this site and other forums that I belong to. I try to remember to credit the person whose idea I am borrowing and often will post a request to that person to be allowed to use their idea... and as some have said or implied, there are few "original" ideas, only variations and adaptations.

This is a great place to share ideas and learn about our craft.
 
Now that we are discussing this I have a simple question. If someone posts a pen on the SYOP and you say "hey, that's neat, I'd like to make one like that" Is it stealing an idea or just being inspired? I have never seen anyone post a photo saying "this is my idea, don't copy it"
 
Originally posted by Texatdurango

If someone posts a pen on the SYOP and you say "hey, that's neat, I'd like to make one like that" Is it stealing an idea or just being inspired?
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For me SOYP is to inspire others and to feel good about our little personal milestones/achievements.

I stick to my belief that IAP is here to help, share, and promote penmaking. (I believe it is in the mission statement here or something)
 
There's only one person on IAP, that I know of, that has said that he does not post pictures of his pens. Evidently, he has a design that he doesn't want the world of pen turners to see. That's fine and it's his right to do that. But in an open forum that prides itself in sharing pen turn knowledge, there will be copying done with intent or... subconsciously.

Many of us in the technology world have had to sign "non-disclosure statements". IAP does not do that. We do not promise not to blab, deconstruct, or reverse engineer what we see here. We praise each other when we master a technique, we commiserate when it blows up in our faces and most important we share and offer advice. If you feel that this kind of sharing is wrong... get off my playground!

"What a Beautiful World" begins to play.....
 
Originally posted by wizical

I have noticed on this site is that people are completely stealing other peoples ideas, but that isnt what bothers me, what bothers me is that they pass it off as their own and that gets to me. i cannot stand Plagiarism in any form. We would never do it in school, so why do it here. We are all creative people here, we should come up with our own ideas. this has probably come up before, just my own rant. thanks
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Kevin . . . I'd say it's time for you to carefully read the reactions to your post. Sometimes, we (including me) write posts and hit the "Post New Reply" button too quickly. Maybe you should spend some time reflecting on your original post and reconsider your accusation of plagiarism.

By the way, is your website design an "original" or did you use a template when "designing" it? Now, try drawing a parallel to penturning and IAP. Get it?
 
I apologize for my rant. It was uncalled for and should have never posted it. I saw a couple of things that just rubbed me the wrong way, again I am sorry. I hope u can forgive me. And for the record. I designed my website from scratch. And I have only Be making pens since 2007, I have been woodturning in general since I was in middle school. Sorry again
 
Kevin,I always thought it took a big person to admit wrong doing and that makes is easy to forgive and forget!
Originally posted by wizical

I apologize for my rant. It was uncalled for and should have never posted it. I saw a couple of things that just rubbed me the wrong way, again I am sorry. I hope u can forgive me. And for the record. I designed my website from scratch. And I have only Be making pens since 2007, I have been woodturning in general since I was in middle school. Sorry again
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Well... I'm new here, and am just starting to learn pen turning. I'm putting you all on notice now, that I'll be stealing everyone's ideas, as I learn a great deal from each of you! There should be a college credit for this forum!
 
Kevin . . . apology accepted. You probably aren't aware of this, but not too long ago a certain member here made a ridiculously stupid post . . . and he was taken to task for it with some pretty direct replies. After coming to his senses and apologizing I (errrr . . . make that "he") found that there are a whole lot of forgiving members of IAP. Welcome back to the Planet. :D
 
To all here, I <s>steal</s> "borrow" every idea I can... I've been turning pens about 6 or 7 years, but there is so much talent here, that I think I have learned more in the short time since I joined IAP than in all the time before.. I really appreciate being able to learn and grow with what I read and see here.

and if I should ever come up with an "original" idea, please feel free to copy, borrow, steal or otherwise use it.

I start everyday with a visit to this site.
 
No apologies needed for me but I know that by offering one...you won back the admiration and forgiveness of countless members (I am sure some of which didn't even post on this thread).
 
Hey Keven,

No problem...I always laugh at the "turners" who get twisted around the axel about Plagiarism and "who's copying my work, etc..", and the dumb arguments they have make me sick.

I have found more sharing and honest support here at IAP than anywhere else, heck I copied so many ideas when I started it kept me making pens when I was ready to drop it. We all got better too when others started sharing and copying ideas, then I saw some people copy an idea or two I thought were mine, I was hugely flattered...[:eek:)]

I think that pen makers are a giving sharing group and that part of our community here makes it all the better....now you too;)

By the way, I invented the Left Hand Skew just for the Record!:D
 
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I just wish to thank everyone who shares their ideas and creativity with us poor turners, who do not have a imaginative bone in our bodies. It's great that some of you share your ideas with us.
Also Jim could you please send me a model of your left hand skew- mine must be a right-handed model as it only works well from the right hand side.;):(

Tom
 
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