Oh No!! Help Me!

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RGVPens

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I'm being sucked in the "Worm Hole" !!! šŸ¤£

Well...not really...but it was a new "learning experience", LOL.

I was turning a piece of Spalted Maple for the first time and found a worm hole, bummer. I have enough left for 3 more tubes, I think, so I'll just save the shavings from the next attempt. My idea is to pack the hole, drizzle thin CA over it and continue turning, sanding, finishing it. Then if you can see the spot...hide it under the clip of a Sierra!

Anything I should know about the procedure? I've done the same type of repair with sawdust and Titebond glue on my scroll saw stuff in the past.
 

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As I said in another thread, coffee grounds work better than sawdust. CA works better than Epoxy. The end result looks more natural. K cups work the best, it's a very fine, consistent grind. Drizzle thin CA on the void. Fill with grounds. pack lightly. Soak the grounds with CA. Don't be afraid to overfill.
 
Different strokes for different folks here - - -

In addressing a flaw in the wood like a wormhole, I tend to favor sanding dust over shavings - shavings are granular and the resulting infill looks uneven, while sawdust products a more uniform infill.

There is nothing wrong with using an infill material that contrasts with the overall color of the wood as long as you understand that the repair will be very prominent. I keep both coffee grounds (preferably expresso since it's a finer grind) and sawdust from various timbers.

Some flaws take a lot of infill material, and sanding doesn't always product a large volume of dust (exception: a disk sander can be used to convert a scrap of wood into quite a bit of sanding dust). But a good substitute is to collet the swarf generated when drilling end-grain - unlike side-grain drilling swarf that is more of a chip, end-grain swarf easily breaks down into a fine powder that can be used for infill.

Finally, it's a good idea to fill voids in steps when using CA as the adhesive - otherwise, you may find that the repair has a hard surface, but with a dust fill void that can be exposed by further turning or sanding.

If the void is large, I prefer to fill it use epoxy - blend the infill material intro either the expoy or the hardener before mixing the two components - that way you have plenty of time to blend the dust before the clock stars on curing the epoxy. Be sure to use plenty of the infill material - otherwise, the repair will look like transparent plastic with mild color added.
 
Before I go to the trouble of fixing a problem like that, I ask myself if the repaired pen blank will turn out well enough to be worth the repair effort. That spalted maple blank doesn't seem worth the effort to me, but one person's junk is another person's fine art.

For the future, some people apply repeated coats of thin CA to stabilize punky, splintery, chippy woods as they turn them.

Since you are just getting started with penturning, I would try one of the repairs suggested above and then evaluate whether to assemble the pen or toss it and move the costs from your "penturning budget" to your "education budget." If that were my pen blank, I would probably have tossed it and started over. (In my experience, most people soon find that they have far more nice pen blanks than they have kits for them.)

What you experienced is exactly why I recommended buying spare tubes for your pen kits in your other thread. See the bottom of this post:
https://www.penturners.org/threads/newbe-question.171899/post-2136526
 
I would use either tinted epoxy glue, or maybe black CA (which you can get from StickFast) to fill the void, then sand it back down. Should allow you to salvage this particular blank. You can handle bug holes and things like that with very sharp tools...

So you have the lathe and some tools. Are you using something like a roughing gouge to turn wood? If so, you should invest in a standard grinder with a 350 grit CBN wheel. A very sharp edge should do your tools WONDERS in terms of how well they cut wood. And CUT is the operative term here! Negative rake carbide is great for resins, but when it comes to wood, a good cutting tool is best. I turn all my wood with just a roughing gouge...nothing fancy, and this larger tool can actually be used very precisely once you get the hang of it.
 
FWIW, I have tried black CA, epoxy with contrasting color, epoxy with coffee, epoxy with sawdust, CA with sawdust, and CA with coffee. The last gives me (both IMO and customer opinion) the best results. I have also found that the CA finish goes better over CA than epoxy. Of course YMMV.
 
Greetings from Nebraska. In my opinion, these kind of things give the final project a lot of character. One of my favorite woods is Ambrosia Maple which is sometimes called Wormy Maple or Ghost Maple. The patchwork pattern of stunning dark streaks are due to a fungus that is carried into the maple by Columbian / ambrosia timber beetles as they burrow their little holes (what many would call worm holes).

My favorite solution is to use a totally unique water based grain filler and wood putty manufactured in Australia called Timbermate. I usually use the nearly black Ebony color on Ambrosia Maple (simply a personal preference). On other timbers I use Pine, Oak, or Walnut either individually or mixed together to make whatever shade I am going after to fill a void in wood. If the void is large, on occasion I use the wood toned repair markers to add streaks, grain lines, etc. The ones I use are made by Rejuvenate.

Here are a couple of pens that show my fixes to Ambrosia Maple. For the Bradford Pear I simply filled the worm holes with CA and left them as they were. - Dave
 

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I wanted to "fix" the worm hole just to see if I could. It didn't come out as bad as I thought it would.
I drilled the next one, chopped up the shavings, CA, wood, CA, more wood, CA. I sanded it flush and started turning again. Went through the grits and finished with the Doctor's Pens Plus I got in the mail yesterday. I think I'll assemble it after lunch and put the Sierra clip over the worm hole. More photos later...
 

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I wanted to "fix" the worm hole just to see if I could. It didn't come out as bad as I thought it would.
I drilled the next one, chopped up the shavings, CA, wood, CA, more wood, CA. I sanded it flush and started turning again. Went through the grits and finished with the Doctor's Pens Plus I got in the mail yesterday. I think I'll assemble it after lunch and put the Sierra clip over the worm hole. More photos later...
Yeah, looks pretty good! Fits pretty well in that little space, with the spalting lines around it.

Pens Plus is amazing stuff! You probably need some more coats with it to get a true glass-like shine. Remember not to be too aggressive with the pens plus...too much heat and pressure will usually result in radial lines and maybe fibers getting stuck in the finish. If you use a moderate pressure, and let the finish dry properly afterwards before you handle the blank at all (which might take up to a day or so, I usually leave the blank on the lathe for a number of hours at least to let the finish dry enough such that handling even with a cloth or cotton gloves won't dull the finish), you'll get a wonderful glass-like finish that rivals CA glue.
 
I put the worm blank into a Stylus Zodiac kit I had. I should have let the blank sit on the lathe for a while...no patience :)
 

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I put the worm blank into a Stylus Zodiac kit I had. I should have let the blank sit on the lathe for a while...no patience :)
Yeah, its hard. But its worth it, if you do! Pens Plus is amazing stuff when handled properly. It took me a while to figure it out...I kept taking the blanks off the lathe within a few minutes when I first started using it, and they always dulled. Letting the finish cure properly before handling is a key step.
 
Yeah, its hard. But its worth it, if you do! Pens Plus is amazing stuff when handled properly. It took me a while to figure it out...I kept taking the blanks off the lathe within a few minutes when I first started using it, and they always dulled. Letting the finish cure properly before handling is a key step.
So what's the best way to get a super gloss shine with Pens Plus? Starting from the time you finish turning it. And how long do I have to let it sit?
 
I asked that question of the people at Hut, who make Hut Crystal Coat. Hut Crystal Coat is a very similar friction polish - alcohol, shellac, carnauba wax.
-> Sorry, but I do not recommend Hut Crystal Coat.

What they told me was to work quickly after application, so that the alcohol does not have time to evaporate before the friction heat appears. You want the friction heat to come up quickly to flash evaporate the alcohol. When that happens, you get the best gloss. That's what they told me.
 
So what's the best way to get a super gloss shine with Pens Plus? Starting from the time you finish turning it. And how long do I have to let it sit?
I take an approach that has a few phases. I've tried with extreme heat and high pressure/friction, which usually results in streaks in the finish. You need heat to evaporate the alcohol, but it doesn't necessarily require huge pressure to get it...with enough speed, and moderate pressure, you can still achieve the necessary heat without the streaking problem. I follow a specific procedure for finishing with pens plus:

1. Sand to a high grit, you want the smoothest surface you can get. I've sanded up to 2000 grit before. I haven't noted any oil penetration problems, and having the smoothest surface possible is ideal for getting a glassy finish with Pens Plus. Some people will wet-sand with Dr's Walnut Oil (the same oil that is in Pens Plus), which ensures that you'll get the oil into the wood since you will have the oil there from low through high grits. I don't wet sand with the oil, I have found that ends up getting too much oil into the wood, which saturates the wood and it expands a bit, which affects my very nice fit between the pen parts and the diameter of the blank. Technically you could slightly under-turn the blank relative to the bushings, so that expansion would bring you back to the right size when wet oil sanding. Another potential issue with wet sanding with oil, is that if the wood has any kind of open grain, larger grain pores, the sanding slurry will fill that, and the slurry will often be a different color, which is another thing I don't care too much for myself. Some people insist on filling in the grain, for a perfectly smooth surface. Its a matter of preference here, for sure!

2. Once you have sanded, if you've wet sanded with the Drs walnut oil, you need to make sure you give that oil time to fully penetrate and start to polymerize. Some of the heat generated during wet sanding will start the polymerization process, but you want to give it time to really set in.

3. Apply a first coat of Pens Plus with the lathe off. Manually apply, and rub it into the wood. When its settled into the wood, turn the lathe on to a high RPM (somewhere between 2000-3500 is usually where I set it). Using a length paper towel, folded over a couple times, add a small dab of pens plus to one end. Using that end, apply to the turning blank with moderate pressure, moving slowly back and forth over the blank, until you start to feel the heat from friction. Don't press too hard, that will cause streaking in my experience. When you feel that heat from friction, start moving the paper towel back and forth over the blank faster, with the same moderate pressure. Lighten up your pressure as you move the towel faster and faster, and swipe it off the end of the blank when you are done to remove the paper towel from the blank.

4. Give the blank about 30-40 seconds to dry, then add another small dab of pens plus to that same spot on the paper towel, and apply another coat using the same general technique described in step 3. Repeat this process for however many primary coats you want. I usually apply around 5, give or take a coat. After each coat dries for 30-40 seconds, you might want to turn the lathe off, and look for dull spots. You will usually find these until you have a number of coats on...this is the wood soaking up the finish. This is less of a problem on harder woods, more of a problem on softer woods (i.e. maple), and more of a problem if you turn any kind of "sidegrain" blank (i.e. blanks that have endgrain and sidegrain along the length of the blank, like a bowl blank...most pen blanks are "spindles", where the end grain is only at the ends, and the length of the blank only has sidegrain... I've turned a few olivewood blanks that were "sidegrain", and the endgrain parts, or knots etc. definitely soak up more finish, so the finish will take on an uneven look until the wood decides to stop soaking up the finish.) If you find a blank soaks up considerable amounts of finish, I've found that letting each coat dry longer, allowing the oils to polymerize more in the wood, helps restrict how much this occurs. It lengthens the finishing process, but the results tend to be better in the end. High friction with higher heat and more evaporation should help here as well, but there can be potential consequences there that, for a truly glassy finish, I try to avoid. YMMV, this is an area you will want to experiment with.

4 (notes): I use the same spot on the paper towel, unless the towel is just starting to shred, to try and benefit from some of the smoothing out of the paper that occurs with subsequent coats (a tip from a guy named, I think, Mike, who's process for applying pens plus I was using for a while). If you find that things get too sticky, use a different part of the paper towel with a new dab of pens plus. If you start to notice streaks around the blank, you may be applying too much pressure, or may be lingering too long with each coat, allowing the finish to start grabbing fibers, or perhaps just as the finish dries continuing to drag paper towel through it may cause streaks to occur. Adjust your process as necessary to avoid streaks here. If you find that the streaks kind of get "baked in" to the finish, you can turn the lathe off, use a new piece of paper towel, apply a moderate dab of pens plus to it, and manually rub it into the blank. You want to rub it around enough to blend with the existing coat (which will make the finish dull again, don't worry about that as it will shine up once you friction polish it again.) Work out the streaks, smooth out the finish with the lathe off, then turn the lathe on again and repeat step 3. You will eventually get the hang of applying this finish, and you'll hone your technique to give you a clean, smooth finish with each coat.

5. I then apply one final coat. For whatever reason, and I'm honestly not sure why (and to some degree or another it seems to be temperature related...with warmer temps, this may not be a necessary step, with colder temps as I now have with winter upon us, it definitely seems to be a necessary step), applying a final coat with lighter pressure is necessary for me to get that final truly glossy finish. I apply another dab of finish to a clean, unused part of the paper towel. With lighter pressure, apply the final coat of finish the same way you applied the previous. Slow at first, then faster, remove the paper towel from the blank with the final swipe.

You will want to leave the blank on the lathe and not touch it for a while. At this point, that final coat is not fully evaporated and there wasn't as much heat. Letting this final coat evaporate more slowly seems to give a smoother, clearer finish than if you use high pressure and friction, at least this is how it has been in my experience (and I know everyone's experiences are generally different.) If you touch the blank before this final coat has sufficiently dried, then you are very likely to smudge it or dull it overall. You need to let it sit, untouched by hands or towels or cloths of any kind for long enough for all the alcohol to evaporate and the coating to generally dry. When I do take the blank off the lathe after this, I don't touch it with my hands. I take a piece of soft paper towel, creased down the middle so the blank can settle there without rolling...holding this close to the blank so it just falls lightly into the paper towel once I pull back the tailstock. I'll then bring that indoors where its a nice warm temp (in my case, around 70 degrees, vs. my garage right now which is usually around 50 or so), and let it sit for a day. This day gives the finish time to fully dry and become resilient to handling, without losing that really nice smooth glassy surface. More recently I've taken to standing my blanks on end (again, without touching them with my hands, a couple of toothpicks only on the ends of the blank can assist here), as I've found that the parts that touch the paper towel may dull as the towel soaks up finish.

Finally, once things are dry...I will use a fine grit sandpaper to sand down the ends to remove any unwanted finish there. When the finish is properly dried, the microcrystalline wax and shellac should give you a very shiny, fingerprint-resistant, resilient finish. It may not be as iron-clad, could-survice-a-nuclear-apocalypse kind of durability that CA is supposed to give, but it will preserve more of that natural "its real wood" appearance and feel. And its still quite durable in my experience, too. (Further, its totally non-toxic once the DNA has evaporated, and so far I've had no problems like I do with CA, which for me causes severe respiratory distress issues, long-term nasal congestion problems, etc. etc.)

This is what has worked for me. I tried other techniques, including a well-practiced and proven one by a guy named Mike (I believe...I think the thread with his procedure is even on these very forums), who uses a wet sanding process with the Drs Walnut Oil, followed by a very specific high friction process that interleaves wet polishing with pens plus (using that same spot where you dab the oil on the paper towel over and over), with burnishing using a dry spot of the paper towel (using the same dry spot each time). I have struggled to get a perfectly smooth, glossy finish with that process. I always end up with streaks, or even numerous little dull/rough patches all over. I've tried different amounts of pressure, different lathe speeds, and in my case, I can't quite get Mike's process to work for me. It may be my humidity, or my temperatures (pens plus seems to be easier to work with when the ambient temps are warmer, but that is highly anecdotal). Anyway, I experimented, and ended up settling on the above process to ensure I get a very glossy finish when I'm done. Its slower, for sure...a higher friction approach that generates even more heat, combined with the burnishing, should technically give you a faster finish, you wouldn't need to wait a day...but, I've never achieved the same level of gloss with any such approach as with the one outlined above. Glassy gloss seems to require slower evaporation of the alcohol and slower drying.
 
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Ok Jon, I tried to follow your method. Not the best blank for a test, but it's what I had just turned. It looks pretty good. I'll leave it on the lathe overnight and take it off in the morning. I'll find someplace to stand it up...for how long? It's mid 70s and A/C during the days upper 60s in the shop at night (?).
 

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Ive often just filled a wormhole with medium CA and let it cure fully. When finished to a shine the surface acts as a lens and brings the inside colors to the surface yet you can still peek into the hole from the side. Makes an interesting feature. Only reason to use filler material is if the brass is showing.
 
Ive often just filled a wormhole with medium CA and let it cure fully. When finished to a shine the surface acts as a lens and brings the inside colors to the surface yet you can still peek into the hole from the side. Makes an interesting feature. Only reason to use filler material is if the brass is showing.
The tube was showing big time!
 
Ok Jon, I tried to follow your method. Not the best blank for a test, but it's what I had just turned. It looks pretty good. I'll leave it on the lathe overnight and take it off in the morning. I'll find someplace to stand it up...for how long? It's mid 70s and A/C during the days upper 60s in the shop at night (?).

I usually just let them sit in the house for a day. That is probably longer than really necessary, but its pretty mistake-free as well, since after a day (which is on top of whatever time you leave it on the lathe, so it comes out to a day and a half to two days total usually), your finish should be good to go. Temps should be fine. I think its mostly a time thing, to let any DNA in the finish evaporate, so the rest can polymerize and harden. Since that final coat is with lighter pressure and less heat, a softer touch to leave the finish smooth and crystal clear, you aren't really "burning" off the DNA with high friction heat. It will still evaporate, it just takes longer.
 
I usually just let them sit in the house for a day. That is probably longer than really necessary, but its pretty mistake-free as well, since after a day (which is on top of whatever time you leave it on the lathe, so it comes out to a day and a half to two days total usually), your finish should be good to go. Temps should be fine. I think its mostly a time thing, to let any DNA in the finish evaporate, so the rest can polymerize and harden. Since that final coat is with lighter pressure and less heat, a softer touch to leave the finish smooth and crystal clear, you aren't really "burning" off the DNA with high friction heat. It will still evaporate, it just takes longer.
I made a quick "Porcupine" to set the blanks on. This will hold them vertical so the sides don't touch anything, as well as keeping them from falling over! I found the smallest two of my punch set work great for transferring them off the lathe. And I can move it around easy without disturbing whatever's drying.

The pair of Yellow Mora blanks I turned and finished with 6 coats of Pens Plus today. The other pair I did last night and let set overnight...I didn't think of and make the porcupine till this morning.
 

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The Yellow Mora are looking pretty shiny! What do you think so far?

I like the porcupine rig. I have a spare walnut dowel, I should make a little drying rack myself, as I'm always concerned my blanks will fall over when I'm drying them. I also have some spare purple heart boards. Guess I have a little project on my hands!
 
The Yellow Mora are looking pretty shiny! What do you think so far?

I like the porcupine rig. I have a spare walnut dowel, I should make a little drying rack myself, as I'm always concerned my blanks will fall over when I'm drying them. I also have some spare purple heart boards. Guess I have a little project on my hands!
That was the only piece of Yellow Mora, so I'm looking forward to the finished pen.
I'll build another porcupine rig later with some nicer looking stuff. I just needed something quick and had that idea.
 
@RGVPens How is the finish now? If its sat in a decently warm house for a day, should be nice and dry, fingerprint resistant, and ready to be handled.
 
@RGVPens How is the finish now? If its sat in a decently warm house for a day, should be nice and dry, fingerprint resistant, and ready to be handled.
I assembled 4 pens this morning. What do you think?
 

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Hmm, a little tough to tell with that lighting there...its faint and seems fairly direct. Can you enlarge the light source and brighten it more?
 
Hmm, a little tough to tell with that lighting there...its faint and seems fairly direct. Can you enlarge the light source and brighten it more?
It's one of those cheep photo box things with two led strips. I'll see if I can find something to brighten it up.
 
I just took a couple photos of a pen I just finished finishing (hah!) yesterday, with Pens Plus. This was after first using Drs Walnut Oil finish (the pure walnut oil) to saturate the wood a bit with oil, so it wouldn't soak up as much of the Pens Plus. After that dried for a while, I started coating the Pens Plus on. I think I got about 8 coats on this, and after that final lighter coat with less pressure and heat, I brought it in for a day.

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You can see how shiny the finish is. The only way I know how to get it like this is with that lighter weight final coat, and a day or so of slower drying. If I try to friction polish it to this shiny of a finish using other Pens Plus application techniques (which usually involve burnishing the finish in with a dry part of the paper towel), in the end, it always seems to end up duller. If you want that satin finish, then you can always burnish the coats in and that seems to dull them a bit, give that satin look. If I'm doing a pen with a satin finish on the kit parts, I'll probably do that. But for reflective parts, my approach with the light weight final coat and slow drying seems to deliver the shiniest finish possible with Pens Plus.
 
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