Not entirely happy with Novus

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Timbo

Timbo

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Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,188
Location
Kill Devil Hills, NC USA.
The 2-step Novus product is the only polish I've tried so far for CA and acrylics. I'm not entirely happy with the results. Anyone out there thrilled with their plastic polishing process? What do you use and why is it better than other products you've tried. I'm looking foir something new to try, and its gonna be something you suggest. Thanks.

Tim
 
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The novus that I have is a 3 step... Maybe that is the problem?

For polishing pens, I run through the micromesh series then buff with 3M automotive rubbing compound. I fiddled with the novus for the final polish, but found the rubbing compound worked just as well (or maybe a bit better) with much less effort.

I get it at Wal-mart in the automotive section.
 
I run through the micromesh system and have used Novus #2, however I have found "Brasso" to work well. It's a brass polish.
 
I use MM to 12,000, then Novus 2, then Meguire's PlastX, followed by a coat of Kiwi Natural Shoe Polish. Makes pens shiney as a 1964 Corvette Stingray!
 
For years I used MM to 12000 then polished with Hut Crystal Coat. I don't really think the crystal coat added much to the shine. Recently I dropped the crystal coat and started buffing my pens for the final finish. Much faster and better results to boot.

I also Polish the wood to 12000 mm before adding my coats of CA for the finish. Sot of having a shine over a shine when I am done.
 
I sand to 2000 grit, go thru the MM and then use Simichrome. Simichrome is a German product sold thru out the United States as a metal polish. I've used it for about 45 years on various projects and swear by it. If you can not find it, E-bay is loaded with it.

Ben
 
BKelley said:
I sand to 2000 grit, go thru the MM and then use Simichrome. Simichrome is a German product sold thru out the United States as a metal polish. I've used it for about 45 years on various projects and swear by it. If you can not find it, E-bay is loaded with it.

Ben
Click to expand...

Your local motorcycle shop may well have it in stock, also. Semichome is great stuff, but has become a little difficult to find. It is WELL WORTH THE EFFORT.
 
We all have our favorite product for CA finishes and acrylics. I like Novus along with other similar products. The swirl and scratch removers for acrylic finishes on autos works well for me..such as Meguire's Scratch X and similar products. I really like Flitz. The local shop where I once purcahsed it stopped selling Flitz and I did not order any online. I used Flitz once again last weekend in another's shop and ordered some in on Monday. HUT Ultragloss Plastic Polish is another favorite. Find one you like and figure out the best way to use it. Some work better when still wet..others work better if allowed to dry like auto polish. Good luck. I hope you find something that you can like.'
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
I used Novus 2 & 3 for years. Important to first sand to at least 1000 grit (not mm, real sandpaper).

The scratches that remain are fine and Novus 3 will remove them (DON"T get the blank hot). Once you can't see any more scratches, Novus 2 completes the polishing.

I now use buffing, instead. Tripoli and white diamond wheels, using a retired Jet mini lathe as a dedicated buffing station (pretty pricey, if you don't make hundreds of pens)
 
I sand my wood pens through 600 then apply a CA/BLO finish and do not sand the finish but use Autosol metal polish. It works for me.
 
We couldn't find a polish we truely liked so we came up with our own. We will be selling it through retailers that sell our blanks.

Blank = "RhinoPlastic My Two Cents" Turned:2,500rpm using a Easy Wood Tools CIO carbide tipped tool. Left: Wet Sanded to 800g using Mirka Goldflex then one coat of RhinoPlastic polish, Middle: Mirka to 800g, MicroMesh to 12,000g, RhinoPlastic Polish. Right: Results before sanding (tool only). Conclusion: The "Left Method" acchieves a fast shiny result. Adding Micromesh results in a superior shine but add additional time.
 

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Brasso did not perform for me. I was in HD on another mission and happend to see it on the shelf, so I picked up a can. I was surprised after applying it to an acrylic blank that had been micromeshed to 12000, that the finish actually looked duller. I re-micromeshed and brought the original shine back. I finshed another blank with micromesh to 6000, then Novus #2. I then applied Brasso, and again it took some of the shine away. When I reapplied novus #2, then shine came back. either I'm doing something wrong, or Brasso is not as good as some may think.

Thinking about my original problem some more, I believe I'm expecting too much of Novus. I think my sanding process sometimes leave scratches too deep for the fine abrasives to remove. I need to rethink how I do the earlier sanding steps. Cross sanding helps, but it does not always eliminate the scratches.
 
Tim
I think you are getting there.

Sanding should never go higher than double the previous--I am told. So, I sand at 400 until the dust is consistent across the blank--no shiny spots--all white (dust). This CAN take some time if you have not had a great final pass or two. But after 400 is correct, then 600-1000-1500--each of these is easy and quick.

For me, the next step is buffing--but it used to be Novus 3 and 2. And, yes on some I also used hut Plastic Polish as a final---never used a mag glass in those days, but I thought my shine got better and people frequently commented on how shiny my pens were.

Just an FYI, feel free to ignore!!
 
Timbo said:
Brasso did not perform for me. I was in HD on another mission and happend to see it on the shelf, so I picked up a can. I was surprised after applying it to an acrylic blank that had been micromeshed to 12000, that the finish actually looked duller. I re-micromeshed and brought the original shine back. I finshed another blank with micromesh to 6000, then Novus #2. I then applied Brasso, and again it took some of the shine away. When I reapplied novus #2, then shine came back. either I'm doing something wrong, or Brasso is not as good as some may think.

Thinking about my original problem some more, I believe I'm expecting too much of Novus. I think my sanding process sometimes leave scratches too deep for the fine abrasives to remove. I need to rethink how I do the earlier sanding steps. Cross sanding helps, but it does not always eliminate the scratches.
Click to expand...

Tim, what kind of Acrylic are you trying to polish? Some of the Alumilite mixes won't give as high of gloss as Polyester resins will, at least that's been my experience, I've heard that the brand new stuff is better.


ed4copies said:
Tim
I think you are getting there.

Sanding should never go higher than double the previous--I am told. So, I sand at 400 until the dust is consistent across the blank--no shiny spots--all white (dust). This CAN take some time if you have not had a great final pass or two. But after 400 is correct, then 600-1000-1500--each of these is easy and quick.

For me, the next step is buffing--but it used to be Novus 3 and 2. And, yes on some I also used hut Plastic Polish as a final---never used a mag glass in those days, but I thought my shine got better and people frequently commented on how shiny my pens were.

Just an FYI, feel free to ignore!!
Click to expand...

I agree Ed, buffing for a final polishing is the best, we have a regular jewelery buffing cabinet. I did see some of the rhino polish while we down at our local meeting last month, it worked quite nicely.
 
ed4copies said:
Tim
I think you are getting there.

Sanding should never go higher than double the previous--I am told. So, I sand at 400 until the dust is consistent across the blank--no shiny spots--all white (dust). This CAN take some time if you have not had a great final pass or two. But after 400 is correct, then 600-1000-1500--each of these is easy and quick.

For me, the next step is buffing--but it used to be Novus 3 and 2. And, yes on some I also used hut Plastic Polish as a final---never used a mag glass in those days, but I thought my shine got better and people frequently commented on how shiny my pens were.

Just an FYI, feel free to ignore!!
Click to expand...

I do sand until I get rid of all the shiny spots. Have a mag light right over the blank. However, I'm using either 1800 micromesh or 240 Abranet for the initial smoothing step depending on blank material and how smooth the blank was to start with. Sounds like you're using wet/dry sandpaper???
 
Timbo said:
The 2-step Novus product is the only polish I've tried so far for CA and acrylics. I'm not entirely happy with the results. Anyone out there thrilled with their plastic polishing process? What do you use and why is it better than other products you've tried. I'm looking foir something new to try, and its gonna be something you suggest. Thanks.

Tim
Click to expand...

I'm far from an expert, but my micromesh and plastic polish are history.
I got a buffer and flannel wheels and compounds. I have never had such glossy plastic and am thrilled with the results.
I dry sand to maybe 400-600 and go to the wheels.
I'm using 3 compounds, but think maybe just two would be enough.
I got the buffing motor from Enco, and the wheels and supplies from Caswell.

There is a huge difference in time and appearance for me. I likey!
Even black Trustone with gold matrix came up to a high gloss. Never had much luck with polishing it otherwise, to a full gloss.

YMMV!:smile:

John
 
Timbo said:
Brasso did not perform for me. I was in HD on another mission and happend to see it on the shelf, so I picked up a can. I was surprised after applying it to an acrylic blank that had been micromeshed to 12000, that the finish actually looked duller. I re-micromeshed and brought the original shine back. I finshed another blank with micromesh to 6000, then Novus #2. I then applied Brasso, and again it took some of the shine away. When I reapplied novus #2, then shine came back. either I'm doing something wrong, or Brasso is not as good as some may think.
Click to expand...

You might also keep a couple of things in mind:
The finish is often about perception. Many of these products are polishing
(producing fine scratches) much smaller than the human eye can see
without magnification. Read through some of the threads about finishes
and you'll see that many people were going up through grades and then
applying a product that went back DOWN a grade or two.. and they didn't
know it. That didn't change their perception, though. Polishing is simply
using finer and finer grits until your eyes can't perceive them anymore and
the finish starts to look like one smooth, un-interrupted surface. (even
though it is not) Sanding and polishing are effectively the same thing, but
there is some disagreement as to where it becomes polishing. Some grits
are on paper, some are in liquid, some are in paste and some are in
bars. But they're all doing the same thing.

I have seen people mention using Brasso and having good results with it,
but I wonder how many are REALLY having good results with it, and how
many just assume they are getting good results because:
a) other people got good results, so they must be getting them also
b) they can't see the fine scratches well enough to tell the difference.

Most of the people I know who are getting truly fine results with Brasso
were using an old paste version of Brasso .. something that has not been
available for years. The liquid version does not have the same grit size
and could be a step backwards (as you have found out)

I wish all of the manufacturers would agree on ONE standard so that we
could put together a chart showing where each product fits in comparison
with others.
 
Actually Tim, I use Klingspor. I've always liked this paper and it's cheap.

This last issue of Wood magazine ran a test of sandpapers---Klingspor did exceptionally well. Kind of confirmed what I had casually observed over the years.
 
NewLondon88 said:
Most of the people I know who are getting truly fine results with Brasso
were using an old paste version of Brasso .. something that has not been
available for years. The liquid version does not have the same grit size
and could be a step backwards (as you have found out)
Click to expand...

I use the brasso lint and I must say it really does enhance the shine. I apply it, let it dry to a haze then polish with a soft paper towel. Works a treat.
 
et me take the time to thank all those who posted their thoughts, suggestions, and advice. Whether I agree, disagree, or already knew, all of your comments are appreciated. My goal with this threat is to get to the point where I have a sanding/polishing process I'm really happy with. I'll keep posting questions and feedback until I get to that point, or until folks get tired of this thread.

Here are my thoughts at this point:

- I no longer believe Novus is the real issue, I've been expecting it to remove scratches it was not designed to handle.
- I do have a 2-wheel buffing system. I've found that when Novus 2 can't remove a scratch, neither will buffing with rouge and white diamond.

So the real problem is reaching a point with my sanding where I leave a consistent enough, and fine enough scratch pattern, that buffing or other polishing techniques become effective.

Another requirement is that the process does not take too long. I know that is subjective, but I have to keep in mind that I'm turning out pens for whatever show is next on my list, and I don't have all day to do it.

Also, whatever process I use must work with minimum modification on acrylics and CA.

I can only explore a few options at as time, so here's the two I'll explore next:

1) "Real" sandpaper - I'll try using Ed's sanding technique using real sandpaper moving through grits 400, 600, 1000, and 1500, followed by buffing.

2) 3 Compound Buffing - I'd like to explore Johnnycnc's 2-step sanding, and buffing technique. I already have a 3-wheel buffer station set up, but most certainly not using the same compounds John is using. John - can you share what wheels and buffing compounds you're using?
 
Last edited:
cajun skeeter said:
Novus 2, sand with 800, apply small dab of Novus 2, with lathe running, best shine I have found, so far.
Click to expand...

You would need to read all the comments before this to see that I have come to the conclusion that the real issue is not the final shine. I can get a great shine with Novus, however, when I look closely, I can see tiny scratch marks that Novus does not remove.
The question for you, assuming you achieve a glass smooth finish with no tiny scratches, what do you do of part of your finishing process prior to get to the 800 grit point? It's in that part of the process that you would have conquered the "tiny scratch" problem.
 
Timbo said:
The question for you, assuming you achieve a glass smooth finish with no tiny scratches, what do you do of part of your finishing process prior to get to the 800 grit point? It's in that part of the process that you would have conquered the "tiny scratch" problem.
Click to expand...

i think the key here would be quality sanding products. (not necessarily
more expensive) The better quality products have better quality control,
and they pay attention to things like grit size consistency. The small grains
attached to the sandpaper or cloth (or suspended in a wax or liquid) may
look the same to us, but under magnification you can see that they're not
all that consistent with some brands. (especially off brands) This may not
matter when you're making lawn furniture or a garage door.. but when
we're working on fine detail and glossy finishes that are on items small
enough to be inspected very close up, it makes a world of difference.

That's one of the reasons micromesh works well. It is not only fine grit,
but it is very consistent grit. Plus it lasts longer than sandpaper, which
allows US to be more consistent .. since we're not switching out to a new
sheet in the middle of sanding.

Also, cleaning the work piece between grits is very important. You don't
want to be sanding 800 grit and your sandpaper suddenly dislodges a
few particles of 100 grit sand that were stuck in a crevice somewhere..
and then you grind those large grit particles into your almost-glossy
finish :eek:
 
Turning the topic around just a bit, Tim (yes, pun intended):

Develop a habit of taking 2 to five final passes with the sharp skew (not usually the one you have been using, one you keep for the final couple passes). Suddenly sanding is MUCH easier, since there are very few scratches to remove.

You say you want to increase your speed----I made pens REAL fast when I was doing it every day. BUT, the last two passes with a tool were ALWAYS a sharp skew. When I started sanding (at 400), the white powder was uniform within ten seconds.--600 about 10 secs, etc.

In less than a minute, I was ready to buff. (Remember I did nearly ALL resins--wood is more difficult, I believe).

Buffing may take two minutes (remember to do the ends of the blank, that's the most likely place for scratches, since you did not want to hit your bushings!!)

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
NewLondon88 said:
Timbo said:
The question for you, assuming you achieve a glass smooth finish with no tiny scratches, what do you do of part of your finishing process prior to get to the 800 grit point? It's in that part of the process that you would have conquered the "tiny scratch" problem.
Click to expand...

i think the key here would be quality sanding products. (not necessarily
more expensive) The better quality products have better quality control,
and they pay attention to things like grit size consistency. The small grains
attached to the sandpaper or cloth (or suspended in a wax or liquid) may
look the same to us, but under magnification you can see that they're not
all that consistent with some brands. (especially off brands) This may not
matter when you're making lawn furniture or a garage door.. but when
we're working on fine detail and glossy finishes that are on items small
enough to be inspected very close up, it makes a world of difference.

That's one of the reasons micromesh works well. It is not only fine grit,
but it is very consistent grit. Plus it lasts longer than sandpaper, which
allows US to be more consistent .. since we're not switching out to a new
sheet in the middle of sanding.

Also, cleaning the work piece between grits is very important. You don't
want to be sanding 800 grit and your sandpaper suddenly dislodges a
few particles of 100 grit sand that were stuck in a crevice somewhere..
and then you grind those large grit particles into your almost-glossy
finish :eek:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I'm in agreement. Except for Novus, Micromesh and Abranet are the only abrasives I use for pen turning. I keep a water squirt bottle right at the lathe for cleaning the blank between grits.
 
ed4copies said:
Turning the topic around just a bit, Tim (yes, pun intended):

Develop a habit of taking 2 to five final passes with the sharp skew (not usually the one you have been using, one you keep for the final couple passes). Suddenly sanding is MUCH easier, since there are very few scratches to remove.

You say you want to increase your speed----I made pens REAL fast when I was doing it every day. BUT, the last two passes with a tool were ALWAYS a sharp skew. When I started sanding (at 400), the white powder was uniform within ten seconds.--600 about 10 secs, etc.

In less than a minute, I was ready to buff. (Remember I did nearly ALL resins--wood is more difficult, I believe).

Buffing may take two minutes (remember to do the ends of the blank, that's the most likely place for scratches, since you did not want to hit your bushings!!)

Hope this helps,
Ed
Click to expand...

Everything helps because everything teaches you something if you listen. Thanks.

I don't use a skew. I use two different carbide tools similar to those sold by folks here. They are very effective for shaping the blank. The first has a round insert, I use that for roughing. Once I get close to the profile I want, I switch the my tool with the straight edge. The technique I use with this tool is kind of hard to explain, but I don't present the edge to the blank straight on, and I try not to let the 90 deg corner of the tool touch the blank either since that would disrupt the smooth contour I'm trying to achieve. Instead I sort of rock/climb it along the length of the blank. It first takes off all of the high spots. I keep going until I get down to the bushings, and achieve the profile I want. The tool does not act as a scraper, it cuts off thin ribbons of material with each pass, leaving a very smooth surface behind. I think my process up to this point is working OK.

Hmmmm...except sometimes I don't get all the way to the bushings, or, I want to get a little below the bushings to accommodate the CA thickness. In those cases I use 180 Abranet to remove material quickly. Of course I use progressively finer grits to get the blank smooth again but That might be where my problem.

All you guys are really forcing me to think through what I do in detail. It's helping a lot...keep it coming.
 
One thing I learned to do when problems occurred. DON'T CHANGE the WAY you do it, just stop and LOOK more often. This will identify WHEN the scratches are happening. Even in the early stages, if you see you have left a deep scratch--watch it progress by stopping the lathe and LOOKING at your blank.

Then, once you have identified the cause and you are fairly certain you are correct, THEN change and repeat the stopping ritual. Yes, it is slow. But, a few SLOW pens make for lots of CORRECT pens, later--and FAST!!

Patience is rewarded.
 
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