Newbie needs some help with a celtic knot

[LarryJB]

I made my 1st Celtic knot today and all was going well till I had a blow out!
I am just learning how to do all the pen turning thing and I am not going to be entering any contests or selling these. I have 2 big questions.
1) Is there anyway to fix this one? some of my ideas are:
a: color the brass tube with a sharpie and then fill in with CA glue? or Epoxy?
b: mix up saw dust and CA glue? or epoxy and fill in with that.
I figure I can mount the clip so that it covers the patch. This does not have to be perfect. I just want to somehow salvage it.
2) What can I do to prevent this from happening on the next one? Here are some of my thoughts.
a: make sure my chisels are sharp. I think the alum. dulled them. Maybe sharpen during the turning of each blank.
b: use skew instead of gouge. I usually start with the gouge and then finish with the skew. the blowout happened while using the gouge.
c: Increase rpms. It was at it slowest speed when this happened. I read somewhere that you should run slow until the blank is round, then increase speed. This was my plan, but forgot to increase the speed after I got it round.
d: I used epoxy to glue in the segments and alum. I then let it cure overnight before drilling. I used 5min epoxy to glue in the tube and waited about 45min before turning. Should I have waited longer before turning?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

 

[skiprat]

That's a pity... it looked good too. Personally, I wouldn't try and fix it....unless you found the missing link...

Aluminium doesn't like to be glued and you will get loads of differing methods to make it stick to stuff. I'm one of the rare people that ONLY use CA for EVERYTHING. The only thing I make sure of is to wipe it over with any solvent that will remove the oils from my fingerprints before gluing. I don't care if it's got printing on it, or if it's anodized, as long as it doesn't have my grubby paw prints on it.

Then I take very very light cuts at Warp Factor 6 ( ie: very fast)

I often hear people mention using 'sharp' tools......I don't get it...why would anyone start a job with a dull tool??

As for the tool.....I can't really comment. I use a metal lathe for most stuff..
But some people here brag about going out hunting down a tree, chopping it into blanks and then turning it from square to finished with their trusty skew.

I always thought that a skew was a 'finishing' tool to be used once it's 'roughed' down to near size......but hey, what do I know...:wink::biggrin:

Good luck, it was looking good and accurate too.:wink:

 

[Brian G]

That's too bad; it looked great.

I have done enough Celtic knot pens to know and accept that there will be failures no matter how careful you are. I wouldn't fix it unless, like Skip says, you can find the missing piece. It won't look right, and you don't need the reminder. Turn it off and use the tube again.

I use a small block plane to trim the corners before turning. It doesn't take much time and reduces the risk of a catch blowing off a chunk. I use a skew from the start. I'm not too proud to admit that I'll do a lot of the final shaping with a 120-grit gouge (adhesive-backed sandpaper on a paint stirring stick) once I get down to where the entire knot is visible.

I use 5 min epoxy to glue in the tubes, and let it cure overnight. That's mostly because I do most of my pen making at night after work, and gluing in tubes is an end of shop time activity.

Keep trying!

 

[Skie_M]

As Brian says, letting it cure overnight is a good idea with epoxy.

Even if CA sets in 20 seconds, I give it 20 minutes before I start turning with it...

I also agree with Brian and Skip again ... if you can't find the missing pieces that flew out, just turn that wood off the tube and start over. I'ld seriously hate myself for putting out shoddy work, and as I'm just getting started, putting substandard work out on the shelf would seriously hurt potential sales far more than pushing this project back and trying again.

 

[jttheclockman]

Hello Larry

I have been known to make a Celtic knot or two. I agree with the others that if you can not find the piece I would toss it in the learning bin. Now you can try to salvage the tube by cutting away the rest of it but tubes are so cheap and time is valuable. So I would choose start completely over.

Now if I were making a knot from all wood I use Titebond II wood glue. I would use med CA (Satellite City Hot Stuff)if i were to add accents such as aluminum as you did. The most important part of segmenting is not the gluing of pieces to each other (yes that is important too) but the gluing all to the tube. The tube is what gives each tiny piece its strength. It ties all those small pieces together to withstand the rigors of the dreaded turning tool. For this I use epoxy. I never ever ever ever use 5 minute epoxy. First off there is no such thing. Just because the surface of the glue dries in 5 min. does not mean it is cured. Plus the additives added to such 5min epoxy has a negative effect on the holding power of it. I prefer 24 hour epoxy and always let a blank like that sit for at least 3 days. I prefer SystemIII T88 epoxy. Have had great success with it.

Now as far as the tooling goes. many people have their prefered choice so no arguments there. Use the tools that have gotten you to the big dance before. just remember to keep them sharp and yes metals will dull all tools faster than wood. If the blank is all wood i will strickly stay with a a skew. If the blank has metal in it i will start with a carbide cutter and always and mean always finish with a skew. A skew is a finishing tool and the best one on the market if properly sharpened and maintained. What this does is allows me to go from turning to finishing without sanding and with some of the complex segmented blanks and their different materials used this can be a huge factor to avoid the dreaded cross contamination of materials.

I go on record to say this is what has worked for me in the past and future. Your results may vary. Good luck as you venture down the segmented pen making path.

 

[twinsen]

I've never celtic knotted but, I have used aluminum a lot. And I have had several blow outs. Mostly due to impatiences. I use CA glue exclusively right now. It's number one enemy is HEAT. So, when you are drilling, or turning, you need to take your sweet time. High speed, low pressure cuts.

 

[Joey-Nieves]

I learned with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9uQv5sKibk, it's a very old video the used to be kid is know a OLD valued member of IAP, what I've never been able to get from him is the plans for the pen assembly jig in the video.

As for your problem; I have been able to repair it by cutting a small pieces of wood with an exacto knife and fitting it in place and then turning it, as our beloved LCDR. Skiprat (Starfleet) said, warp speed and a sharp tool, I make my own carbide insert tools and I keep the cutters sharp with a diamond stone, but for this type of turning I have an old, cheap, trustworthy, sharp as a razor 1/4 " skew that can shave the beard off a flee, that is perfect for this sort of job. You may think it's a lot of work, but it's actually very easy, just keep in mind the direction of the grain and you won't even notice the boo-boo.

Joey

PS Skiprat ever since I saw the Enterprise pen and the Starfleet stand "I am and always shall be you fan"!

 

[Dr Robert]

I made my 1st Celtic knot today and all was going well till I had a blow out!
I am just learning how to do all the pen turning thing and I am not going to be entering any contests or selling these. I have 2 big questions.
1) Is there anyway to fix this one? some of my ideas are:
a: color the brass tube with a sharpie and then fill in with CA glue? or Epoxy?
b: mix up saw dust and CA glue? or epoxy and fill in with that.
I figure I can mount the clip so that it covers the patch. This does not have to be perfect. I just want to somehow salvage it.
2) What can I do to prevent this from happening on the next one? Here are some of my thoughts.
a: make sure my chisels are sharp. I think the alum. dulled them. Maybe sharpen during the turning of each blank.
b: use skew instead of gouge. I usually start with the gouge and then finish with the skew. the blowout happened while using the gouge.
c: Increase rpms. It was at it slowest speed when this happened. I read somewhere that you should run slow until the blank is round, then increase speed. This was my plan, but forgot to increase the speed after I got it round.
d: I used epoxy to glue in the segments and alum. I then let it cure overnight before drilling. I used 5min epoxy to glue in the tube and waited about 45min before turning. Should I have waited longer before turning?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app

 

[jttheclockman]

Is there a question in there DR.

 

[Dale Allen]

Larry, I've never seen one made quite like that.
It looks great and it would be a shame to discard it.
Seeing as you are obviously extremely creative and talented, I say repair it.
You likely have more of the same wood and aluminum pieces so make new ones and glue them in. Shape the pieces to fit the void and let them stick out some. You can then trim them off with files or whatever. What's the worst that could happen? Another blowout? If so then the learning continues.

 

[jttheclockman]

Larry, I've never seen one made quite like that.
It looks great and it would be a shame to discard it.
Seeing as you are obviously extremely creative and talented, I say repair it.
You likely have more of the same wood and aluminum pieces so make new ones and glue them in. Shape the pieces to fit the void and let them stick out some. You can then trim them off with files or whatever. What's the worst that could happen? Another blowout? If so then the learning continues.

2 year old post.

 

[Gwatson50]

Shoot, that's pretty, keep it around to remind you that's it's never over 'til the fat lady sings. Before I turn any segments I drench it with thin CA. It's interesting to note that it blew at the structurally weakest point... if it happens continually the material combinations might be re-thought.


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