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They look like a bullet replica. Im sure there is a market for them, but it seems much cooler to have the real thing.
 
A quote from the PSI propaganda: Turners have struggled to turn actual shell casings into finished pens with mixed results - our complete kit solves this problem.

Personally I don't think we have struggled at all, but they want us to think so($$$$). My results have been anything but mixed, as well as several others. Two or three members here sell prepared cartridges...why not buy from them? Several of us have written articles on how to make them...why buy? Add this to your list for the 22nd and read about making them here: http://www.RedRiverPens.com/articles

Do a good turn daily!
Don

1JaredSchmidt said:
So what do you guys think of these?

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKCP2410.html
Click to expand...
 
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to me it looks like they are just jumping on the band wagon with these. They have read and heard that the cartridge pen its indeed a pen people want to buy. Some people may not like them but they are surely good sellers and the public speaks. So jumping on the bandwagon is wghat I see and with all that crome and gold plating how will these stand up to the test of time. We know how brass and nickel stand up.
 
My wife pointed those out to me in the catelog last week. I gave it a thumbs down.

Once you get going, making pens out of real brass and bullets is really kind of easy and inexpensive. Sure, there are several steps involved, but I prepare maybe 20 pen halves at a time so the time per pen is quite low.

It should also be noted that using their 'replica' kit would take away from your presentation of the item to potential customers. The pen would go from a cool conversation item to an interesting looking kit. This would impact your ability to market the pen at an increased price at the very moment that you have increased the amount of money that you have invested into it.

The customer's perception of the seller would also change from a skilled craftsman/artist to a seller of 'kit pens', resulting in a decrease in sales volume.
 
its_virgil said:
A quote from the PSI propaganda: Turners have struggled to turn actual shell casings into finished pens with mixed results - our complete kit solves this problem.

Personally I don't think we have struggled at all, but they want us to think so($$$$). My results have been anything but mixed, as well as several others. Two or three members here sell prepared cartridges...why not buy from them? Several of us have written articles on how to make them...why buy? Add this to your list for the 22nd and read about making them here: http://www.RedRiverPens.com/articles

Do a good turn daily!
Don
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know what the "struggle" has been either.. I don't use the lead bullets for nibs, but otherwise, it's pretty simple and straight forward to make a cartridge pen.
 
I'd go with a real casing over something like that every time but I can see how there may be some people out there who don't care if something is legit or a knockoff. Tim apparently knows people who don't care, so I can't say that it's 100% wrong, obviously.

I'll also give it a thumbs down. Maybe with a little more understanding though. They're a business, they're in the game of pushing out the lowest quality that's still passable with as much profit as the market will bear. I'm not saying I prefer it, but it's expected from me.

The Scorpion And The Frog

One day a scorpion was walking along the riverbank trying to find a
way to get across the river that separated him from his desired
location when he came across a frog sitting alongside the riverbank.
The scorpion walked up to the frog and asked the frog if he would take
him across the river. The frog quickly replied, "No, I would not give
you a ride." The scorpion then asked him why. The frog replied,
"Because Mr. Scorpion if I gave you a ride on my back you would sting
me and I would drown." Quickly the scorpion replied, "But Mr. Frog, if
I stung you then you would drown and if you drown then I would drown
also." The frog thought for a moment and then said, "I guess you're
right, then I will give you a ride." The scorpion jumps on the frog's
back and they start crossing the river. Half way across the river the
frog suddenly feels a sharp pain in his back, as the scorpion stings
him. The frog immediately starts to panic as he feels the venom race
through his veins and he quickly begins to become paralyzed. Just as
he is taking his last breath and about to go down, the frog looks at
the scorpion and asks "Why did you do it? You promised not to sting
me! Now we are both going to drown!" The scorpion replies, "I'm sorry,
Sir, but I could not help it - it's my nature".
Click to expand...
 
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PSI has a much larger audience than the IAP.

Not everyone enjoys the resources of several thousand minds evaluating a way to solve the problem. I have progressed much farther from being here than I did when I was a penmaking "loner". So, PSI WILL sell these, just not to many of US.
 
To tell you the truth the whole thing just sort of rubs me wrong.
the whole "Mixed results" comment is flat out deceptive. at least around here I have not noticed Mixed results unless you count variation as mixed.
At first glance I thought maybe one of our members had managed to cash in on the advancements in the group. but quickly realized that was not so. or at least not likely since it is a replica of a bullet casing.
Finally this just might be the largest case for not making this forum so accessible. It is clear as crystal to me that this group not only designed these pens, it also proved there popularity.
I have not been a big buyer from P.S.I. for a few years now. this will not encourage me to change that any time soon.
sorry if this is an over the top rant or anything but I just see it as my friends just got robbed.
 
Maybe we should put together a review from this group. anyone care to help put it together? here is what I started with but then did not click submit. I know better than to do that when my pulse rate is still at 180. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Find the real deal at penturners.org. In many variations, the only mixed results are that there are so many choices in how to make the real thing.
P.S.I. should give credit where credit is due. This design was developed by the fine folks at the International Association of Penturners. Using real bullets and casings.

they would not allow me to rate it at no stars.
 
Daniel, I believe that there are likely a lot of turners who have not been able to make a bullet-casing pen without buying the pre-drilled components from someone else....whether through a lack of tools, ignroance of the process, or a lack of desire to try...

I would hazard to guess that PSI got a lot of requests for bullet-pens, and decided to fill that niche; this is just speculation, of course...

One has to remember that there are a LOT of advanced pen turners on the IAP...we are in no way the entire penturning body of the entire world; just a very active community of beginning, developing, and advanced penturners...

Andrew
 
Actually, speaking only for myself, I could not make the pen without the Beall collet. I tried and kept spinning the casing in my scroll chuck. So, (for me) making casing pens required more expense than some may be willing to make.
 
Charles, You are probably right. In that is the wisdom to not click submit. I have been around since before the I.A.P. though and I have seen what advancements where being made then (with the same talented people) and what is being made now. This is probably the only time that i think the group really got shafted though. I believe every pen from the the Gent pen to the latest new frilly one from CSUSA, no sarcasm intended there. is a direct result of conversations on this group. Richard from the Yahoo group and the penturners guild had approached the suppliers at one time about higher end pens. the last I heard about that the suppliers where not convinced there was a demand for them. COnversations on this group I believe convinced them otherwise.
Casting was nearly unheard of in any form before this group. the corn cob blank and the snake skin blank came from this group as far as I know. Stabalization was a topic that came up once a week and was lost and forgotten, actual methods where not developed until this group formed.
It is not so much the knowlege and the ability that is different, it is the ability to share and preserve that information that works so much better.

at best it is a cheap copy of the real thing. not suprising really.
 
Ed, I've made casing pens from scratch so I know just what you are talking about. But what went through my mind was that the "Kit" is already available from members of this group. When I first looked at the P.S.I. kit I was thinking that one of the members had landed a deal supplying P.S.I. with kits. I was sort of saying "Right on!" which turned immediately into what the heck. I think then what struck me was P.S.I had taken a wonderful pen design and managed to make one of the half baked border line garbage pen kits out of it. to tell the truth I think I am angrier about that than anything. in all it was a pretty fast decent which sort of left me angrier than probably really should be. I'll live and besides I know where to get the good stuff.
 
Daniel said:
... When I first looked at the P.S.I. kit I was thinking that one of the members had landed a deal supplying P.S.I. with kits. I was sort of saying "Right on!" which turned immediately into what the heck. I think then what struck me was P.S.I had taken a wonderful pen design and managed to make one of the half baked border line garbage pen kits out of it. to tell the truth I think I am angrier about that than anything. in all it was a pretty fast decent which sort of left me angrier than probably really should be. I'll live and besides I know where to get the good stuff.
Click to expand...
That was exactly how my thought process went. I started out somewhat amused that they were charging eight bucks for a set-up cartridge. I only took a closer look to see what size cartridge was used and because the bullet nib didn't look right to me. Then I found that it wasn't a real casing and bullet at all and basically wrote it off as cheap junk. Now my concern is that these kits could devalue 'real' cartridge pens because a buyer could see the fakes being sold by some vendors and then not take a close look at the real ones, assuming that they are also fakes.
 
I've hesitated to reply, because I am obviously biased. Please consider the source when reading my post.

There is a market for rifle cartridge pen kits - that much I can assure you. Many people want to make cartridge pens but don't want to fabricate their own cartridges. There are moderately low, but real barriers to entry, including tooling, components, and technique. Many people want pre-prepped cartridges, just as they want stabilized corn cobs, and cast pinecone blanks.

Other companies have offered kits before (such as Wood-n-Whimsies' kit). So have some individuals (myself for example). I don't really see PSI's offering as being much different. Their kit has some plusses (like a bullet-shaped nib and tarnish-resistant plating) and some minuses (like a non-bullet color nib). I myself prefer the look of a real cartridge over a simula. Of course I'd rather people bought from me, but I can't blame PSI for marketing a pen kit.

Actually, it bothers me more that they call it a "casing" pen. I wish they could get the terminology right.

Regards,
Eric
 
Yeah, because a bullet pen would be very... very.. very.. small.

I can see where Daniel is coming from but I think that 9/10th of the people who order those kits, if not more, have never even heard of IAP or know that someone here sells cartridge pen kits. So, it's probably unlikely that they're actually taking bread out of anyone here's mouth.

Let them put out a fake cartridge, just makes the real ones all the more valuable.
 
Skye said:
Yeah, because a bullet pen would be very... very.. very.. small.
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[nitpick on]
Well, it annoyed me more when Woodturning Design published an article on how to make a "Brass Bullet Pen" when in fact the pen did not use a bullet at all. WD also mistakenly called cases "casings". At least PSI correctly calls the kit a "cartridge" pen kit, and only uses the misnomer "casing" in the description.

Now, I'm not complaining about the widespread use of the term "casing" here. I don't expect people to be aware of the difference. When, however, someone sets themselves forward as an authority by publishing, or when a company offers an item for sale, I do expect them to know and use the proper terminology.
[nitpick off]

Regards,
Eric
 
Sylvanite said:
[nitpick on]
Well, it annoyed me more when Woodturning Design published an article on how to make a "Brass Bullet Pen" when in fact the pen did not use a bullet at all. WD also mistakenly called cases "casings". At least PSI correctly calls the kit a "cartridge" pen kit, and only uses the misnomer "casing" in the description.

Now, I'm not complaining about the widespread use of the term "casing" here. I don't expect people to be aware of the difference. When, however, someone sets themselves forward as an authority by publishing, or when a company offers an item for sale, I do expect them to know and use the proper terminology.
[nitpick off]

Regards,
Eric
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Hey Eric,

Can you turn the nitpick back on and explain the difference to those of us who openly admit we know NOTHING about bullets, but would LIKE to be ACCURATE when we describe our products!!!

Thanks!!!
 
A bullet is a bullet.

A casing is what is commonly known as 'brass'.

A cartridge is the complete assembly; brass, bullet, powder, and primer.

Therefore, none of our pens are technically 'cartridge pens', but close enough.
 
Thanks folks for letting me "wind down" Eric it is really good to have you chime in since it is you and others I thought of. Frank you are absolutely correct. P.S.I. is in Business and does what Business does. So not permanent hatred on my part toward them.
note to self..I.A.P. is not center of whole universe.
 
sbell111 said:
A bullet is a bullet.

A casing is what is commonly known as 'brass'.

A cartridge is the complete assembly; brass, bullet, powder, and primer.

Therefore, none of our pens are technically 'cartridge pens', but close enough.
Click to expand...

If that's true, my pens would be casing pens because I don't use the bullet.
 
ed4copies said:
Can you turn the nitpick back on and explain the difference to those of us who openly admit we know NOTHING about bullets, but would LIKE to be ACCURATE when we describe our products!!!
Click to expand...
Gladly!!!

I'll limit my description to "centerfire metallic rifle cartridges". That is, I'm not talking about every kind of ammunition, just the ones typically made into replica pens. I don't want to get sidetracked into rimfire, shotshell, antique, exotic, or otherwise atypical ammo discussions.

The technical name for a complete round of ammunition (what you buy in a box and load into a rifle), sometimes called a "shell", is "cartridge". A live cartridge is composed of 4 parts:

1) The "bullet", which is the actual projectile. This is the part that shoots out the barrel of the rifle. These are typically made of lead, copper-jacketed lead, or solid copper. Some also have steel or tungsten cores and some have tracer material in the base.

2) The "case", sometimes also called "shellcase", and commonly referred to as "brass" (although nickel-plated brass and steel cases are common too). This is the other primarily visible portion of the cartridge. For many calibers, it is shaped like a soda bottle (although others are straight-walled), giving rise to the term "bottle-neck case". Many people call this part the "casing", which is a misnomer. "Casing" is what you stuff to make sausage. Language, however, is what we speak - not what people tell us we should speak - and it is constantly evolving. Maybe this term will change.

3) The primer, which is the piece that ignites when struck by a firing pin.

4) The powder, (technically the "propellant"), which burns rapidly under pressure, creating the expanding gas that propells the bullet.

We don't generally use the primer or powder in pens (although we sometimes leave a spent primer or empty primer cup in for decoration). Generally our pens use either the case and a kit nib, or the case and drilled-out bullet nib. I call the first a "rifle case pen", and the second a "rifle cartridge pen". Strictly speaking, this isn't a complete cartridge, but I don't know of any better term to use.

There is additional terminology describing shapes and parts of bullets, cases, powder, and primers. Do you want that info too, or has this been enough?

Regards,
Eric

P.S.
Hmmm, perhaps I could use the powder in a pen after all. Now I'm thinking about casting powder and putting that in a cut case or window case pen.
 
Thank-you!!

I will adopt the term "rifle case pen" and hope to be closer to accurate.

I am selling to hunters' wives, usually - so it would be nice to be close to correct.
 
I had to chime in here...

I'm handy enough arround my shop, I have no doubt I could figure out how to make these out of raw casings. But I want them to sell them, not for the "art" in doing it, so I bought 6 of the nickel Win. Mag. kits from Erik (Sylvanite).

I've done several dozen different kinds of kits, some are better than others, but Erik's were unusual, not only in the quality he is producing, but in his directions and clarity about how to put these together. He's made them like a zero challenge, which is just what I wanted for now.

I'm really impressed with what Erik does with his products, and will buy as many as I can sell. I should have posted a pic, but have not even taken them yet to get them up on my website, but I'll try to post some soon.

If you don't care to re-invent what others have basically perfected, try one of Erik's kits!

Dale
 
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