Need help on stabilizing!

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shadetree_1

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
934
Location
Wittmann AZ
Hi folks,

They say the only dumb queation is the one you don't ask so here goes, in my search for woods to make blanks out of I find some really cool barks and the like and I would like to learn how to stabilized this stuff to make some killer blanks, but I have no idea where to start with getting or making a system, If I recall, one of our members makes a stabilizing system, but I need a system that is billfold friendly and "user friendly" and by user friendly I mean I don't know diddley about doing this, so I have come to you folks because you are the experts and I need to learn, I pass up way to much cool stuff because I can't do anything with it.

All advice will be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Joe:biggrin:
 
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Joe, read the casting and stabilization forum...and maybe dig around the library...

I'm not a caster, but I think people use both PR and Alumilite for the worthless wood blanks...I'm pretty sure Curtis made a how-to in the library for that (but havent' looked in a while).

The only stabilizing solution I've heard mentioned on the forum is cactus juice...but I'm sure there are others. As I said, I'm not a caster, so I'm just giving you some starting points! :)

Andrew
 
Joe,
I do both, casting worthless wood and stabilizing. I got great info from Curtis, Mesquiteman. His set up for stabilizing is very straight forward.
 
Joe:

I'll mention that I have stabilized cedar with dissolved plexiglass (in acetone).

I thinned the plexi to the consistancy near water put in a quart jar. drilled the blank undersize to fit the mandrel and turned the blank down (oversize, without brass tube). Dropped the blanks into the jar and used our food vacuum sealer and pulled a vac. watched the bubbles come out then released vac. repeated the process three or four times until the blanks sunk.

I let the blanks set over night and then removed them and let them dry. Drilled to size, tubed them and finished turning.

I'll bet it's not the best, but if you have a "food sucker" handy, it's cheap and I think it worked it great.

Steve
 
I posted this a while back but it applies to your question so here it is again.
Eugene.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, these are techniques that I use and work for what I do, there are likely better (read more expensive) ways to stabilize wood out there so this list is not all inclusive. First I will give you my definition of "stabilizing wood" for pen turning. "To take a piece of wood that is too soft in its current state to be able to turn and harden it (stabilize it) in order to make it turnable.

METHOD 1: (the simplest). Use Minwax wood hardener. Pour a can of Minwax Wood Hardener in a glass jar big enough so that a normal pen blank (aprox 3/4" x 3/4" x 5 1/2") can lay flat. Drop the blanks in the jar and close lid tightly. Wait until blanks sink plus one day then take out and let dry. The Minwax will saturate the blank and harden the fibers. It will not fill wormholes or repair cracks. Depending on the type of wood this can take from 2-5 days. This method hardens the wood fibers but does not produce a super hard blank.

METHOD 1A:If you want to speed it up you can place a weight (do not use a wood block bec it will absorb the hardener) on top of the blanks so that they do not float. Make sure the liquid completely covers the blank.

METHOD 1B: If you want to speed it up more and plan on doing this for many blanks you can set up a paint pressure pot and apply pressure to the blanks while submerged in the hardener. This is what I do and apply 80 psi for about 24 hours and by then the blanks have sunk.

Method 2: Requires Acetone, acrylic (Plexiglas) air compressor and a paint pressure pot. Make sure it is acrylic because if not it will not work. Pour the acetone in a tall mason jar about half full. Cut the Plexiglas in 1" squares. I use a bolt cutter for this just make sure you have eye protection bec the plexiglas has a tendency shoot out when it cracks. Put the pieces of Plexiglas in the acetone jar and close tightly (acetone evaporates very quickly). Sit jar on a shelf out of the way and shake it every 4-5 hours make sure the jar is properly sealed, you do not want any of the solution falling on you) . Depending on the quantity of Plexiglas and acetone it may take a few days to dissolve into a syrup like slurry. Take another jar like the one from the minwax method and pour the slurry in the jar. If you have a clump at the bottom of the mason jar leave it there and pour more acetone in it. Set it on a shelf and shake it at least twice a day. Keep repeating this until the Plexiglas is completely dissolved and transferred to the larger jar. Make enough so that the large jar is no more than half way full but full enough to cover the blanks if submerged. The final solution should have the consistency of water. Once the solution is ready put the blanks you want to stabilize in the mixture, weigh then down with something so they stay submerged put the whole thing in the pressure pot put the lid on as per instructions and apply pressure. Again I apply 80 PSI. Apply pressure for about 12 hours then release it, let stand for several hours then apply pressure again. I do this about 4 or five times over a 3-4 day period. After doing this several times release the air, open the pot and take out the blanks and set them out side to dry. Do not stack them on each other bec they will stick. The acetone evaporates and the dissolved acrylic hardens inside the wood fibers. One additional benefit is that wood treated like this is easier to turn and finishes easier. You can use vacuum BUT remember that acetone disolves rubber so unless you have a filter on the vac pump the acetone fumes may damage the rubber in the pump)

Method 3: Requires Mineral Spirits, oil base poly, air compressor and a paint pressure pot. Make a 50/50 mix of poly and mineral spirits. Again, not more than 1/2 full for the large glass jar. Follow the directions above for the plexi-tone, the method is the same but the mixture is what is different.

Method 4: Requires Allumilite, air compressor and a paint pressure pot. This falls more under "casting" VS stabilizing. Mesquiteman (Curtis) covers it very well, see link.
http://builtbydoc.com/WorthlessWoodBlanks.pdf

Other methods I am still testing are styrofoam dissolved in MEKP (nasty stuff). But have not tested enough to recommend it yet.

Then you can always send your stuff out to be professionally stabilized, big machines do the same thing as above but the liquids are different and under a lot more pressure with the final stage being that they "cook" the blanks which some times distorts them. The price is about $10-15 per pound with a minimum of 10 pounds. You send them 5 pound of wood they treat it and weight it then they charge you by the pound. So 5 pound of punky dry wood can weigh 15 pounds by the time they get done with it. But you get a professionally stabilized blank back.

And Finally ""Caution""; Do this only in a WELL VENTILATED area (out doors) and use eye and breathing protection, in addition to gloves AND don't smoke. All of these chemicals release vapors that are bad for your lungs and eyes and are flammable. Put all your clean-up rags in a can with water and get them out of the shop once you are done. Safety first!

Again; This is the way I have done it, it works for me but may not work for you.

El Mostro
 
I've been using the pickle jar method, and attached a Harbor Freight hand pump brake bleeder pump to it.

I leave the wood in for about two weeks, take it out and it's impregnated.

So far I've used Cabott's polyurethane, but just yesterday pulled out a blank used with Helmsman.

As Woodlab is close to me and I've used his services before, I can make a comparison. His stuff is better, but my stuff turns nice and isn't at all bad.
 
I actually just completed my first trial of Cactus Juice last friday whatI feel is a great success. I used an olive jar and about $30 worth of hardware from Lowes and a Harbor Freight Vacuum (on sale and 20% coupon)and an $6 Toaster Oven from the thrift store. I placed 3 blanks in the jar I had, one Cross Cut Spalted Hickory, 2 Lace Redwood Burl. The redwood did not work but was expected I just had to try it in my shop but the Hickory exactly doubled in weight (34 to 68 grams). This is wood you could scrape with your thumbe nail and watch crumble before. Now I used a chisle to expose the garin and I cant even dent it with my nail. I worked with Curtis a few times and made some changes on my setup to turn a fitting around and now have a 1 gallon pikle jar set up. I have to cut some more of the hickory but will be doing more soon. The best part of the Cactus Juice, IMHO, is that it cleans with soap and water.

You can send me a few blanks and I will stabilize them for you so you can see the difference yourself, just let me keep a couple of blanks to offset the cost of the Juice.
PM me if you are interested.

Chris
 
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