Micro Mesh Pads or Zona Paper?

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I'm a recent convert to Zona myself and it's Michelle Bagley at Drop Anchor's fault. The lagniappe for her orders are a sample zona pack. After stacking up 3 or 4 of 'em I gave it a shot and I believe I'm getting better results out of them.
 
To Quote Michael above: "Micro mesh pads but only because that's what I got started with."

I have used Zona but go back to MM. I think it is the feel that I developed with MM on the blanks over the first 5 or 6 years of pen making. But on occasion I stray just to try something different.
 
I too started with MM, and have recently begun trying Zona, but I feel that Zona requires some finessing, as it is very easy to apply too much pressure on the zona paper, especially the most coarse 600 grit - There have been several pens recently that I worked my way through the Zona grits only to find out at the end that I had spots where the finish was matte instead of glossy, and I had to reapply CA and basically start over. But once I get a better feel for the different grits, I think Zona will be my choice. Mostly because Micromesh pads have gotten pretty expensive, and don't last that long, even with regular cleaning.
 
I use Micro-Mesh type foam backed abrasives. Like many, it is what I started with and have had no reasons to change. Also I think there are some advantages due to the foam backing. Personally, I find them easier to hold on to. They are flexible and are well suited for complex profiles and curves. They don't seem to load up and can be cleaned/washed off using water and a soft toothbrush. The foam helps absorb excess pressure and unintended material removal - sand-through.

The original drawback for me was the cost, especially of those genuine Micro-Mesh 2-inch square pads. But since, I have been buying the 3" x 4" Micro Polish pads for about $12 a set and cutting them into fourths. This brings the cost down to a mere $3/set - and they are almost the same size as the 2" x 2" ones - just 1/2 inch narrower on one side and with no rounded corners.

I've also recently started using the six grit Magic Juice polishing system from Stadium Blanks. It really does a nice job of bringing up the shine; however, any pinhole type imperfections in the finish will fill with the polish and will result in the dreaded white spot issue.

Regards,
Dave
 
egnald said:
The original drawback for me was the cost, especially of those genuine Micro-Mesh 2-inch square pads. But since, I have been buying the 3" x 4" Micro Polish pads for about $12 a set and cutting them into fourths. This brings the cost down to a mere $3/set - and they are almost the same size as the 2" x 2" ones - just 1/2 inch narrower on one side and with no rounded corners.
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Dave, I too cut the micro mesh larger pads into 4 smaller ones, for the exact reason you mention. But in the last year, the cost of MicroMesh has increased significantly. Amazon now wants $26.98 for a pack of 3" x 4" pads. Exotic Blanks has them for $29.95. This price increase is what drove me to explore Zona.
 
KMCloonan said:
Dave, I too cut the micro mesh larger pads into 4 smaller ones, for the exact reason you mention. But in the last year, the cost of MicroMesh has increased significantly. Amazon now wants $26.98 for a pack of 3" x 4" pads. Exotic Blanks has them for $29.95. This price increase is what drove me to explore Zona.
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Check Turner's Warehouse Micro Polishing Pads.
 
I've used the Micro Mesh foam backed pads for a good number of years, but recently tried Zona paper. I think both have some pluses and minuses. I like the MM foam for turnings that are generally straight with few curves, like a pen. I use them wet and wipe off the pen surface between each grit change. With Zona, I think it provides a better final finish, but I don't think the lower grits are aggressive enough to make some of the sanding lines go away. I sand with normal options until 600 grit and then switch to MM or Zona. With the Zona, you REALLY have to insure you have no remaining scratches, as the paper doesn't seem to abrade the remaining scratches out, where MM on the foam always seems to sand as well as polish as you work.

I do think each of them are pretty long lasting, and I will continue to use both as I figure out which I prefer. So far, I don't have a preference.
 
hertzogcraig said:
Now I know I'll probably get a pretty good split, just curious which you all prefer and why, micro mesh pads or zona paper for the fine sanding/polishing.
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I've used Micro Mesh for what seems forever. I use the 4x3 size. In 15 years I've only needed two sets. They last a good long time if all you use them for is pens. However, I think I'm due for a new set.
 
rixstix said:
I cut a sheets (8.5"x11") of Tri-M-Ite/Zona into 24 pieces, wet sand and toss. Tri-M-Ite and Zona are both 3M products, are colored identically, graded identically but (for me) Tri-M-Ite is a bit more attractively priced.
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Will one package of 24 last 7 years doing several hundred pens?
 
I converted to Zona paper a couple of years ago. I was using the micro mesh sheets (I sometimes used the pads when I absolutely needed to keep a flat sending surface, such as sanding multiple materials), and usually wet (first grit I might do dry, then all wet.)

Based on a thread back in 2021 that someone shared about Zona paper, I picked up a package and tried it, and I have had much better luck with Zona than with the micro mesh. The thing with the micro mesh, is the grit is deeply embedded in the coating that bonds the grit to the fabric. Further, the sheets are so expensive, we usually try to use them as long as possible before we discard them (I tended to cut small strips from the sheets and discarded those a bit more frequently). My experience was that the MM definitely degraded in effectiveness, well before I felt I'd gotten my value out of each sheet or pad.

With Zona paper, the grit is bonded to the substrate, but it is not coated or embedded in any kind of rubbery substance or anything like that. So, you get the full sharp cutting effectiveness of the grit each time you use a strip of Zona. The grit degrades like any other sandpaper, but, for pens, you don't need much. I usually cut about 3/4" or so strips, about 2" long, and used those to wet sand any resin based blank. Toss each strip when done, there isn't going to be any grit left when you are so there is no point in trying to reuse a strip of Zona. The grit breaks down and becomes a part of the slurry, which is exactly what you want. The full 8x11" (actually a bit larger) sheets of Zona paper for each grit, last quite a while when you use small strips like that on each pen. Sometimes I will use an additional green (coarsest grit) and white (finest grit), and I will buy a package of each to supplement the multi grit packs. Generally speaking, though, I like the results with Zona better than I've been able to achieve with MM, and its more cost effective as well.

Some people think that MM will last effectively forever... That has definitely not been my experience. You can certainly tell that grit remains embedded within whatever that rubbery coating is on each MM sheet (or pad). But, the coating itself seems to interfere with the cutting edges of the grit, and as those edges wear down, just because there is still grit embedded in that coating doesn't mean its actually doing nearly the same level of cutting as when it was new. You can cut strips from the small 2x4" little sheets you can buy, which can help a single one of those sheets last longer, but MM's amazing cutting power when brand new, does seem to fade pretty quickly. Even though it can still do some sanding after the good grit edges are gone, it takes a lot longer to do a good sanding job with MM. With Zona, you cut a new set of strips for every pen, and a full sheet lasts for quite a lot of pens (roughly 60 pens, I'd say, per variety package of Zona). You always have that optimal cutting power.

I've never tried the Tri-M-Ite, but its supposedly the same stuff, and sometimes it can be found cheaper than Zona. Its around $12-18 for either most of the time, I think. On a per-pen basis, on average, I think its around $0.25 per pen worth of sandpaper. Maybe a little more if you use an extra green and/or white strip. Twenty five cents for optimal cutting power on every pen. I don't think that's too bad.
 
jrista said:
Some people think that MM will last effectively forever... That has definitely not been my experience. You can certainly tell that grit remains embedded within whatever that rubbery coating is on each MM sheet (or pad). But, the coating itself seems to interfere with the cutting edges of the grit, and as those edges wear down, just because there is still grit embedded in that coating doesn't mean its actually doing nearly the same level of cutting as when it was new. You can cut strips from the small 2x4" little sheets you can buy, which can help a single one of those sheets last longer, but MM's amazing cutting power when brand new, does seem to fade pretty quickly. Even though it can still do some sanding after the good grit edges are gone, it takes a lot longer to do a good sanding job with MM. With Zona, you cut a new set of strips for every pen, and a full sheet lasts for quite a lot of pens (roughly 60 pens, I'd say, per variety package of Zona). You always have that optimal cutting power.
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It depends upon each person's techniques. I take my time and enjoy the journey of each pen. I do have a few pen blanks that I take hours making and I am not in a hurry to finish it. I will take 5 to 10 minutes turning it from +.007" or +.008 to -.002" to fill with CA back to .000 transition. That is on segments and I will not use sandpaper, MM or Zona on segments - period.

When it comes to solid or a few hybrids, I still turn to .005 or .003 and sand down to -.001 or 2 and build CA back.

I have been doing this for better than 15-16 years. It is like bushings - and good tools, take care of them or use them up.

AS to wearing MM out, yes it does wear down and the wear down rate is determined more by the pressure one applies and speed at which one wants the grit to do the cutting. Not much different than my car going 300,000+ miles on one set of brake pads vs my daughter that needs brake pads every 100,000 miles.
A sheet of 4000 MM grit used many many times may wear down to an effective 8000 grit after 4 or 5 years (or quicker). As an aside, somewhere on this forum from long ago is a thread that contains the fact that even brown paper sacks have a sanding/cutting effect similar to something like 12000 grit MM. ( https://www.penturners.org/threads/...g-fountain-pens-at-shows.130793/#post-1752410 ) There are a few threads years before that - in which it is mentioned of brown paper sacks as very fine sanding material.

There are other mediums/materials that also can be used as very/extremely fine sanding situations and some to near buffing quality. So in that manner, MM can be used effectively much longer. Many here do that, or at least many of the old timers used to do this regularly. Longevity is dependent upon 1. pressure applied, 2. speed at which one wants to sand down, 3. speed of lathe, and 4 hardness of material.

Not everyone is the same, somewhat like asking what is the best way to finish a pen with CA? šŸ¤£
 
PreacherJon said:
Will one package of 24 last 7 years doing several hundred pens?
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NOPE
jrista said:
I've never tried the Tri-M-Ite, but its supposedly the same stuff, and sometimes it can be found cheaper than Zona. Its around $12-18 for either most of the time, I think. On a per-pen basis, on average, I think its around $0.25 per pen worth of sandpaper. Maybe a little more if you use an extra green and/or white strip. Twenty five cents for optimal cutting power on every pen. I don't think that's too bad.
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In spite of both products being 3M, both products come in the same 'grits', both products having the same color coding, ZONA claims that their product is not repackaged Tri-M-Ite. Personally, I don't believe the Zona marketing department's comment.

Tri-M-Ite (for me) is under $11 per 10 sheet package. I buy individual grits since I don't use nearly as much of the finer grades as I do the course.
 
leehljp said:
It depends upon each person's techniques. I take my time and enjoy the journey of each pen. I do have a few pen blanks that I take hours making and I am not in a hurry to finish it. I will take 5 to 10 minutes turning it from +.007" or +.008 to -.002" to fill with CA back to .000 transition. That is on segments and I will not use sandpaper, MM or Zona on segments - period.

When it comes to solid or a few hybrids, I still turn to .005 or .003 and sand down to -.001 or 2 and build CA back.

I have been doing this for better than 15-16 years. It is like bushings - and good tools, take care of them or use them up.

AS to wearing MM out, yes it does wear down and the wear down rate is determined more by the pressure one applies and speed at which one wants the grit to do the cutting. Not much different than my car going 300,000+ miles on one set of brake pads vs my daughter that needs brake pads every 100,000 miles.
A sheet of 4000 MM grit used many many times may wear down to an effective 8000 grit after 4 or 5 years (or quicker). As an aside, somewhere on this forum from long ago is a thread that contains the fact that even brown paper sacks have a sanding/cutting effect similar to something like 12000 grit MM. ( https://www.penturners.org/threads/...g-fountain-pens-at-shows.130793/#post-1752410 ) There are a few threads years before that - in which it is mentioned of brown paper sacks as very fine sanding material.

There are other mediums/materials that also can be used as very/extremely fine sanding situations and some to near buffing quality. So in that manner, MM can be used effectively much longer. Many here do that, or at least many of the old timers used to do this regularly. Longevity is dependent upon 1. pressure applied, 2. speed at which one wants to sand down, 3. speed of lathe, and 4 hardness of material.

Not everyone is the same, somewhat like asking what is the best way to finish a pen with CA? šŸ¤£
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Its the "years' timescale that makes me wonder. I have never seen any study that advances any evidence that this is the case...that the original cutting power of MM lasts anywhere remotely that long. Its an anecdote, but I honestly wonder how true it is.

As with any cutting edge...the sharpest edge will wear down quickly with the first series of cuts. A ludicrously sharp chef's knife that can cut paper and slice through veggies with one-handed use, will only do so for a short while before that edge needs to be re-honed. The knife will continue to cut, for sure, for a LONG time after that original ultra-sharp edge has degraded or rolled over. But that original cutting power doesn't last that long...

I think that's the key difference I've found with Zona (or Tri-M-Ite)...you don't need to use much, and you get that ultra sharp edged cutting power every time. I don't think you get the same kind of cutting power with MM after even a few uses, let alone months or years. I still have my MM sheets from early 2021, and I've cut some strips off of them that I've used for a while, but I only felt these sheets (or their strips) REALLY worked super well in the first few pens or so that I used them on. Even though I could probably use them for years, are they doing as good a job as a 2" little strip of Zona does every single time?

I am not a high pressure sander. I like to let the paper do most of the work when I can. That said, this is where I feel the MM does change over time, and in a lot less time than years...it does end up taking more pressure to actually sand out the coarser grit scratches as you progress through the grits. When they are fresh, every sheet just rips through and you get a really nice surface by the 12000 grit. A dozen pens in, its not quite as easy. By the end of a year, and I realized I was spending a lot of time on each grit to really progress the scratch scale fully. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

Regarding speed, years ago I came across a tip that sandpaper isn't effective until you reduce speed to the point where you really feel it grabbing. At a high speed, you can wear down the grit without it actually doing much work. When the grit really grabs the surface, then its doing its full load of work. The more grabby it is, though, the more likely that razor-sharp initial edge is going to degrade. Like the chefs knife, it'll still cut...its just not going to be as effective... I try to sand at a speed where the paper is able to put in maximum effort, but if its doing maximum effort, then, I have a tough time believing that original edge is going to last for years, or even months.
 
rixstix said:
In spite of both products being 3M, both products come in the same 'grits', both products having the same color coding, ZONA claims that their product is not repackaged Tri-M-Ite. Personally, I don't believe the Zona marketing department's comment.

Tri-M-Ite (for me) is under $11 per 10 sheet package. I buy individual grits since I don't use nearly as much of the finer grades as I do the course.
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I have several sources where a pack of Zona is $11.74.

I honestly don't know if they are the same or not. I've wondered if Zona once had a patent, that expired, allowing 3M to produce their own version as Tri-M-Ite? I actually don't even know which came first, though, so who knows. Searching for any information about it is tough, as people often use both company names when talking about it. :p So, you find "3M Zona Tri-M-Ite Wet/Dry Polishing Sheets" šŸ¤£
 
jrista said:
Its the "years' timescale that makes me wonder. I have never seen any study that advances any evidence that this is the case...that the original cutting power of MM lasts anywhere remotely that long. Its an anecdote, but I honestly wonder how true it is.
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I agree with most of what you wrote and know that you are one that wants concrete (my term) or solid evidence. in "wondering" about "years" timescale - it is all relative. Let's see, I just found a pack of 6" by 12" MM two weeks ago. It has been packed away since the summer of 2010 and was never used. So will 14 years and still new count for your timescale? šŸ˜ Seriously though, I am a low pressure sander as you said you are. And I have never had a scientific study done of my habits, but I have learned from experience exactly what you wrote, if it doesn't "grab" it is too fast. OH, BTW - I learned it before I ever saw it written down as fact or from your experience, so it doesn't have to be written or tested for it to be true.

I used to do about 20 - 30 pens a year and I took my time with each one. Now I do 10 -12. Only about half do I sand before finishing (since I do segments mostly). And even for the finish, I didn't have to sand long as my razor sharp (shave my forearm with light touches) - the tool reduced the heavier sanding most people do. Therefore my MM lasts because I don't use it that much, but it is what I use when I need SP.
 
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I'm a Zona paper convert. I use a rotary cutter and cut small strips, and then cut those into small pieces from there. You do need to find your way with them, it's best to go easy on the green and gray as you can sand through your finish. I like them because I find I can easily feel any irregularities with them. They are 6 steps as opposed to 9, and I feel they do a great job. Also, as pointed out they are less expensive than MM.
 
leehljp said:
And I have never had a scientific study done of my habits, but I have learned from experience exactly what you wrote, if it doesn't "grab" it is too fast. OH, BTW - I learned it before I ever saw it written down as fact or from your experience, so it doesn't have to be written or tested for it to be true.
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FWIW, this is exactly what anecdotal evidence is. I don't dismiss anecdotal evidence, just acknowledge that such is all it is. My experiences have been different. Undoubtedly there are individual technique differences, but there is also going to be some degree of physical change to the grit each time you use a sheet. That is the thing where some statistics from a robust study could give us a better, broader understanding of exactly what's happening each time we use a sheet of...well, whatever sandpaper, on a variety of materials. I like knowing more than just "I feel it works this way..." as it gives me a deeper understanding.

I had a tough time with sanding when I first started woodturning. Granted, a lot of it was just a DISTASTE of spending so much time sanding. It took me researching exactly how sandpaper works, what's going on when you use it, cross grain, with the grain, alternating across the previous grits scratches vs. not, etc. etc. before I finally came to really appreciate sanding and its benefits. (Same goes for buffing...didn't buff at first, then decided to research what it was really doing and how to really use a buffing wheel, compound, etc. and now I'm hooked.) Having a deeper understanding of exactly what sandpaper is doing to the fibers of the wood has helped me become a better sander, and now its a fundamental part of my process that I no longer loath. o_O

We all have our individual experiences. They frequently differ. Such is the nature, and issue, with purely anecdotal evidence.

I agree with you that good tooling is key to reducing sanding efforts, and more so key to getting a good finish regardless. I do what I can, on every turning, to tool well enough that I never have to use lower grits, like 120, 180, 220. I don't even buy 60, 80, or 120 grit anymore, and the last large back of 180 grit I bought will probably last me years. I sometimes use 220 to sand out tearout, but I generally try to use the tool(s) well enough that I can start at much higher grits, on anything I turn. I think its a good practice! ;)
 
I get my Micromesh from Woodturningz as they are the cheapest. I too use MM as I don't know of any better way to sand. I do however use regular sand paper at the beginning of my wood blanks to get rid of the rough spots as the tool I was using was meant for metal (never would have know if it wasn't for these amazing group of people). I usually turn my speed down low enough to still get the job done and wet the MM pad and sand about 20-30 seconds each pad wiping off the slur from the previous sanding. Then for polishing wood I use Shellwax as my previous wax is no longer available, for acrylic and other plastics I use either Nova polish or plastic polish (crystal coat) and turn the lathe speed up to get a bit of heat and friction.
 

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