Metal lathe doubts

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RicardoPG

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2024
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7
Location
Oporto, Portugal
Hi everyone!

First, I wish you a happy new year with many health pens turned!

As a long-time fountain pen enthusiast and collector, I am planning to start turning pens. To do so, I plan on acquiring and learning how to use a metal lathe.

With a metal lathe capable of threading, I would use the lathe itself to thread pens and only use taps and dies for the nib threads or threads that the lathe cannot do itself (in principle, threads under 0.5mm for the lathes I am looking at).

Having already read a lot about lathes here, I plan to start with at least a 7x14 lathe, instead of going for something smaller and having to upgrade later on.

Living in Portugal, I have been looking at lathes sold locally to have more straightforward support if needed and can only find Chinese-made lathes like this one (in this case, it is a Holzmann with digital readout): https://www.holzmann-maschinen.at/EN/metal-lathe-12341. Other brands I see here are Vevor and Optimum, which I understand are also Chinese-made.

I could have access to EU-made lathes like the Wabeco D4000, but the price difference is huge, and I don't think it justifies it unless I get serious about turning pens, which I don't know if I will as I have never tried it and devoted time to it...

In your experience, do you find that lathes like these (Chinese made) are precise and stiff enough for turning good pens and, also, for precise threading? I would hate to invest a significant amount in a lathe only for having to sell it and upgrade to an expensiver model or make...

Thank you in advance for your advice!
 
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Afternoon Ricardo,

I can vouch for the accuracy and stiffness of a Chinese lathe - I have Seig SC3 (Arceurotrade.co.uk) on which I make all of my kitless pens, amongst other things. Routine maintenance of the lathe is critical to retaining accuracy, but that would be the same for any 'hobby' lathe. To give you an idea of accuracy and repeatability achieveable with the lathe I run a test every month using a rod of aluminium 300 mm long.

Turning between centres I take a .25mm cut and measure the difference at either end, last months numbers were 18.96mm (tailstock) and 18.82mm (head), a difference of 0.14mm, error of 0.74%. Over the last year (2024) the error percentage has varied from 0.65% to 0.9%. In the real world, when you're cutting threads or turning 150mm blanks to round, it perfectly accurate and repeatable.

Finally be prepared to budget at least half as much as the lathe costs for the purchase of peripherals - tooling, drills et al.

Ohh, and buy lots of less expensive acrylic blanks to practice on.

Here's an informative guide to kitless pens - https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/an-introduction-to-custom-pen-making. It's a good foundation.

Enjoy :)
Chriscb
 
Thats an interesting point of view but IMO you are missing out on the fun of woodturning (or penturning in general) with hand tools. I mean you can make a great pen with a metal lathe ( maybe even better than a wood lathe in terms of precision) but i find that holding a lathe chisel is a bit relaxing/magical. Anyway just saying..good luck with your endeavour i hope to see your work soon, cheers
 
Chriscb said:
Afternoon Ricardo,

I can vouch for the accuracy and stiffness of a Chinese lathe - I have Seig SC3 (Arceurotrade.co.uk) on which I make all of my kitless pens, amongst other things. Routine maintenance of the lathe is critical to retaining accuracy, but that would be the same for any 'hobby' lathe. To give you an idea of accuracy and repeatability achieveable with the lathe I run a test every month using a rod of aluminium 300 mm long.

Turning between centres I take a .25mm cut and measure the difference at either end, last months numbers were 18.96mm (tailstock) and 18.82mm (head), a difference of 0.14mm, error of 0.74%. Over the last year (2024) the error percentage has varied from 0.65% to 0.9%. In the real world, when you're cutting threads or turning 150mm blanks to round, it perfectly accurate and repeatable.

Finally be prepared to budget at least half as much as the lathe costs for the purchase of peripherals - tooling, drills et al.

Ohh, and buy lots of less expensive acrylic blanks to practice on.

Here's an informative guide to kitless pens - https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/an-introduction-to-custom-pen-making. It's a good foundation.

Enjoy :)
Chriscb
Click to expand...
Just for the sake of metal lathe talking how these values compare with the old school mini lathes like unimat or sherline etc.? Are these lathes accurate?
 
Chriscb said:
Afternoon Ricardo,

I can vouch for the accuracy and stiffness of a Chinese lathe - I have Seig SC3 (Arceurotrade.co.uk) on which I make all of my kitless pens, amongst other things. Routine maintenance of the lathe is critical to retaining accuracy, but that would be the same for any 'hobby' lathe. To give you an idea of accuracy and repeatability achieveable with the lathe I run a test every month using a rod of aluminium 300 mm long.

Turning between centres I take a .25mm cut and measure the difference at either end, last months numbers were 18.96mm (tailstock) and 18.82mm (head), a difference of 0.14mm, error of 0.74%. Over the last year (2024) the error percentage has varied from 0.65% to 0.9%. In the real world, when you're cutting threads or turning 150mm blanks to round, it perfectly accurate and repeatable.

Finally be prepared to budget at least half as much as the lathe costs for the purchase of peripherals - tooling, drills et al.

Ohh, and buy lots of less expensive acrylic blanks to practice on.

Here's an informative guide to kitless pens - https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/an-introduction-to-custom-pen-making. It's a good foundation.

Enjoy :)
Chriscb
Click to expand...
Hi Chris,

Thank you so much for your feedback! The Sieg C3 is one of the lathes that I read about and would be my first option, but, unfortunately, it is not sold locally… From your results it is, indeed, as accurate it needs to be for pen turning.

The way you test the accuracy of your lathe is great, and, if I am thinking well, using aluminiumin - harder to turn than 'plastics' - ensures that it effectively accurate. I will surely use it to test mine once I get one.

I am already preparing for additional investments in tools and for a lot of trial and error on those. I believe it will be a pleasurable part of the journey to find which ones work best :)

I will follow your advice on the blanks and buy a lot of them to practice.

Also thank you for sharing Beaufort's guide, it has a lot of insights for a beginner and it is very helpful for setting a foundation. I am also looking at the Forum's resources and piling up as much information as I can before starting!

Thank you once again for your feedback :)
Cheers!
Ricardo
 
Check into the Proxxon PD400. EU made.
I've been down the Chinese lathe path. I found it barely acceptable. The Proxxon is a vastly better machine. If you don't end up using it, the resale value should be good.
 
PatrickR said:
Check into the Proxxon PD400. EU made.
I've been down the Chinese lathe path. I found it barely acceptable. The Proxxon is a vastly better machine. If you don't end up using it, the resale value should be good.
Click to expand...
Ummm.... that's like comparing a fast jet to a Cessna. Both are aircraft but with vastly different characteristics.

As I said to Ricardo, routine maintenance of the SC3 is critical to retaining accuracy. For the work I need the lathe to do, the SC3 is perfectly adequate, and as a bonus is almost a third of the price of the basic Proxxon PD400.

Chriscb
 
MedWoodWorx said:
Thats an interesting point of view but IMO you are missing out on the fun of woodturning (or penturning in general) with hand tools. I mean you can make a great pen with a metal lathe ( maybe even better than a wood lathe in terms of precision) but i find that holding a lathe chisel is a bit relaxing/magical. Anyway just saying..good luck with your endeavour i hope to see your work soon, cheers
Click to expand...
I too find working at a wood lathe relaxing, there is something quite exhilarating producing ribbons of wet wood from which a bowl appears!
Chriscb.
 
MedWoodWorx said:
Just for the sake of metal lathe talking how these values compare with the old school mini lathes like unimat or sherline etc.? Are these lathes accurate?
Click to expand...
Yes as I say routine maintenance of the lathe is critical to retaining accuracy, but that would be the same for any 'hobby' lathe. The design of the SC3 is so simple that maintenance is really easy. For the beginner (as I was!) the machine is ideal. There are various tweaks and adaptions one can make to improve the rigidity of the bed and such like, but really we're talking tiny improvements.
I've use the lathe to turn mandrels from brass and aluminium and made pens using acrylic and wood. I wouldn't suggest you turn mild steel at 2400 rpm whilst taking a 1mm cut, but which machines could accomplish that!
Chriscb
 
I modified my PSI wood lathe to turn metal, no lead screw, so no threading. But when I get that long scharf of aluminum, it is just as satisfying as wood/chisel. I have even saved some of them to show off. The last one was over 6 feet long.
 
PatrickR said:
Check into the Proxxon PD400. EU made.
I've been down the Chinese lathe path. I found it barely acceptable. The Proxxon is a vastly better machine. If you don't end up using it, the resale value should be good.
Click to expand...
Hi Patrick, thank you for your reply!

When you mean that it was barely acceptable, do you mean that it wasn't precise enough?

Thank you for mentioning the Proxxon. I hadn't heard about it before, and from what I have seen online, it seems to be a very good, sturdy and precise lathe.

Regarding the Proxxon, if it is much better than a Chinese machine, I could accommodate the cost, assuming it would be more easily resalable and retains more value. Do you think that, for a complete beginner, it would make sense to take this step and invest in a lathe like this? I.e., would I learn better/more, having to face the difficulties that could arise from using a Chinese lathe?

Cheers
Ricardo
 
MedWoodWorx said:
Thats an interesting point of view but IMO you are missing out on the fun of woodturning (or penturning in general) with hand tools. I mean you can make a great pen with a metal lathe ( maybe even better than a wood lathe in terms of precision) but i find that holding a lathe chisel is a bit relaxing/magical. Anyway just saying..good luck with your endeavour i hope to see your work soon, cheers
Click to expand...
Hi!

Although I have never turned a pen (or anything, to be honest!) I think I understand what you are saying about the relaxing effect of handturning.

I didn't intend to use the lathe for turning wood but, for turning by hand - which I intend to try! -, I was planning to make a tool stand accessory that would allow me to hold a chisel using a metal lathe, something along the lines of what is discussed in this post. I think it would allow me to benefit from the upside in precision of a metal lathe, and the possibility of being creative with free-hand turning.

Things at work haven't been easy lately, but I am already reorganizing my garage to accommodate the lathe and tools. I hope I'll be able to show some work soon!

Cheers
Ricardo
 
RicardoPG said:
Hi Patrick, thank you for your reply!

When you mean that it was barely acceptable, do you mean that it wasn't precise enough?

Thank you for mentioning the Proxxon. I hadn't heard about it before, and from what I have seen online, it seems to be a very good, sturdy and precise lathe.

Regarding the Proxxon, if it is much better than a Chinese machine, I could accommodate the cost, assuming it would be more easily resalable and retains more value. Do you think that, for a complete beginner, it would make sense to take this step and invest in a lathe like this? I.e., would I learn better/more, having to face the difficulties that could arise from using a Chinese lathe?

Cheers
Ricardo
Click to expand...
Hi Ricardo
The Chinese lathes aren't made to consistent standards. I only have experience with one, it is a Saig (?) style, like most of the small metal lathes. There are some of these available in the USA that are made to higher standards for particular brands, like Little Machine Shop, Precision Mathews. These get good reviews and would be a viable option if you can get them. I would stay away from the generic ones (like mine) though. Yes, I could make pens with it but I don't consider kitless pens to be tight tolerances items.
If I could go back, I definitely would have gone with a better (more expensive machine first) We have a saying here (maybe you have a similar one there) "Buy once, Cry once".
You'll have to check your location for comparable lathes on the used market as far as resale value.
The Proxxon lathe is night and day different than the Chinese lathe that I have. Much higher quality all the way through. Customer support has been excellent.
Please let us know what you choose.
 
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