Melamine lacquer question

[sorins]

Hi everybody,
I started trying a new finishing method, with melamine lacquer, instead of CA finishing. I followed several tutorials, equally from this forum and from other internet sources. I sanded the pen up to 800 grit, for each stage I also sanded with the grain. At the end I faced this problem: the finished surface has marks across the grain, just as they are after CA finishing. If in CA case these marks will disappear after micromesh sanding, for melamine lacquer I have no clue how to get rid of them, as there are less layers (I applied max. 8 layers) and they are very thin. I tried polishing the melamine lacquer with a Meguiars polish, equivalent to a 12k micromesh, but the result was that I almost removed the lacquer in my attempt of removing the marks.
I need your advice: should I apply more lacquer and, then, trying to polish, or there is another method to apply it without such marks? Thank you!

 

[hokie]

When I apply melamine lacquer, my coats are so thin, there is no opportunity for brush or wiping marks to appear. Each coat dries in seconds (literally). That way and I almost never have to do any touch-ups or corrections. I also only wipe the lacquer onto my pieces in the direction of the grain, not with the lathe running.
Have you seen this guide to applying melamine lacquer?...

It is very new to YouTube and very thorough.
Good luck!

 

[bsshog40]

I've not used melamine before but I do use deft spray lacquer on my duck calls. I go very thin on my coats, so I make sure my wood has no discrepancies in it before applying the lacquer.

 

[sorins]

When I apply melamine lacquer, my coats are so thin, there is no opportunity for brush or wiping marks to appear. Each coat dries in seconds (literally). That way and I almost never have to do any touch-ups or corrections. I also only wipe the lacquer onto my pieces in the direction of the grain, not with the lathe running.
Have you seen this guide to applying melamine lacquer?...

It is very new to YouTube and very thorough.
Good luck!

All tutorials seen so far show the lathe running while applying the lacquer, but I'll try your method, thanks!

 

[gcap74]

Hi all, so I did some experimenting with Melamine lacquer this weekend and I was a bit frustrated with my efforts. I followed the guide on the video in this post and at first everything seemed great. When I was buffing after each coat I got a real shine on the piece, but it didn't feel plastic-like which is what I was hoping for. But within a few minutes of finishing the shine was gone and the finish looked dull and very matte.

This is something I have noticed with friction polish in the past, but it usually lasts a bit longer.

I have seen examples of melamine lacquer that have a mirror shine... What am I doing wrong?

 

[sorins]

Hi all, so I did some experimenting with Melamine lacquer this weekend and I was a bit frustrated with my efforts. I followed the guide on the video in this post and at first everything seemed great. When I was buffing after each coat I got a real shine on the piece, but it didn't feel plastic-like which is what I was hoping for. But within a few minutes of finishing the shine was gone and the finish looked dull and very matte.

This is something I have noticed with friction polish in the past, but it usually lasts a bit longer.

I have seen examples of melamine lacquer that have a mirror shine... What am I doing wrong?

At first sight finishing with melamine (as per video & written tutorials) is pretty straightforward, but not everything is as simple as it looks Unfortunately, in none of such tutorials I've seen any mention about issues that could arise in this process, as I and you both encountered (and yes, I also noticed that dull and matteish surface). So, somehow, we are still far from that ecstatic moment when those guys admire their result with melamine!

 

[shastastan]

I had never heard of this finish until I watched Mike's video. I followed his directions to the letter. He says to apply the sanding sealer (multiple coats) and then buff dry at 2500 rpms. The application of the sanding sealer is with the lathe off as it is also for the lacquer. He recommends turning on the lathe to a slow speed for at least 30 seconds after the last coat of lacquer. Then, it's up to 3000 rpms for final buffing. I've not used CA finish nor do I plan to. The melamine finish (as shown in the video) has produced the results I was hoping for--a finish that is not plasticky , shows the wood grain, and durable. I sand to 1200 grit and use Dr Kirk's scratch free wax, applied with the lathe off, after sanding. I also do an light, quick wipe down with acetone (per Mikes instructions) to remove the wax BEFORE applying the sanding sealer. The only complaint I have is that I have to move my lathe belts during the process for each pen. However, this is due to type of lathe that I have. It has taken me many years to find a finish that works for me. This melamine finish is as close as I have come

 

[jrista]

I used Melamine Lacquer when I first got into pen making. I had trouble with streaking back then as well...its a very fast drying finish. I didn't have the video linked back then, and its actually a very good video. I don't think I used the steel wool to cut back on the streaks, and I think that's a very important step. I have always been a fan of finishes that allow the wood grain texture through. I may give melamine lacquer another try.

If melamine lacquer proves too much of a challenge, you might look into wipe on poly. I've been using that on a lot of my turned items lately, and I absolutely love it. I use oil-based wipe on, not water based, as I want that deep chatoyance-enhancing penetration. Its a single formula solution, no need to first apply any sanding sealer or anything like that. You can get gloss, satin/luster or matte finishes with poly easily enough. Might be a viable alternative.

Something to note with both melamine and poly finishes, you can always use a proper buffing wheel and some buffing compound to clean up any remnant streaking as well, if you need to. Buffing allows you to turn the piece any angle, and clean up streaks in ways you can't really do on the lathe.

 

[shastastan]

I used Melamine Lacquer when I first got into pen making. I had trouble with streaking back then as well...its a very fast drying finish. I didn't have the video linked back then, and its actually a very good video. I don't think I used the steel wool to cut back on the streaks, and I think that's a very important step. I have always been a fan of finishes that allow the wood grain texture through. I may give melamine lacquer another try.

If melamine lacquer proves too much of a challenge, you might look into wipe on poly. I've been using that on a lot of my turned items lately, and I absolutely love it. I use oil-based wipe on, not water based, as I want that deep chatoyance-enhancing penetration. Its a single formula solution, no need to first apply any sanding sealer or anything like that. You can get gloss, satin/luster or matte finishes with poly easily enough. Might be a viable alternative.

Something to note with both melamine and poly finishes, you can always use a proper buffing wheel and some buffing compound to clean up any remnant streaking as well, if you need to. Buffing allows you to turn the piece any angle, and clean up streaks in ways you can't really do on the lathe.

Thanks for the tip. I do use wipe-on poly (oil base). I haven't tried the buffing wheel with compound though. I should add that you can over-do both the Melamine sanding sealer and/or lacquer. Both do dry very quickly

 

[jrista]

Thanks for the tip. I do use wipe-on poly (oil base). I haven't tried the buffing wheel with compound though. I should add that you can over-do both the Melamine sanding sealer and/or lacquer. Both do dry very quickly

I would say that, the primary driver for me these days, is simplicity and ease of application. When I first started woodturning, OMG, I wasted so much money on so many different kinds of finishes. I have a $50 can of PolyX hardwax oil or something somewhere, that I only used a little bit on a few turned items. It ended up being a much bigger challenge to apply that properly and have a good result, and sadly I think it expired. I've tried so many other finishes, including various lacquers and even water based finishes.

In the end, I stuck with the finishes that produced good results, without a lot of effort. I'd say primarily, I've just written off anything water-based. It may just be me, but I cannot get a good chatoyant result with water-based. I think its the high solids, low VOC quantity, that greatly limits penetration, and the results LOOK like a solid coating on top of the wood. I have written off pretty much all friction polishes except one, most CA glues except one, and most lacquers (except maybe Mylands, will have to see if I can make it "easy" and "simple" or not ).

The finishes I use most these days, because they are easy, are Pens Plus (until it starts to go bad, which sadly is a slow process that progressively gets worse, which has currently left me shelving Pens Plus until I can use it on bigger items that will allow me to finish out a bottle BEFORE it goes bad!), Gluboost, and Poly. Its nice having the limited options, because I know exactly how to use each, I know that every one is readily available, and I know how to get a high quality result every time with each. It simplified a lot.

Sadly, I now have a mountain of other finishes, most of which have either gone bad (for sure all the shellac based ones), or are likely to go bad soon (oil based), that will never get used.

 

[shastastan]

<<Sadly, I now have a mountain of other finishes, most of which have either gone bad (for sure all the shellac based ones), or are likely to go bad soon (oil based), that will never get used. >>

My experience with finishes is the same as yours. I've always wanted a durable finish for my pens. I've been satisfied with the Melamine as demo'd by Mike @ CUSA. I was using a 50-50 mix of Deft gloss and lacquer thinner applied with the lathe running. I think applied 7 coats and had to apply the finish, wait a minute, buff a minute and then repeat the process 6 more times. This was because applying the finish was just a quick wipe. I did see a youtube recently where the guy was using CA glue (thin) and boiled linseed oil. The application looked pretty easy, but I'm not sure about the durability. YMMV. I've only tried the Melamine process on bocote and I'm not very knowledgeable about which finishes work best on the various kinds of wood

 

[Todd in PA]

I wanted very badly for the melamine lacquer to work as well as in the videos. I just haven't figured it out. It gums up on me or pulls fibers off the applicator and has to be redone. I haven't given up entirely. But it's a lot less foolproof than pens plus.

 

[jrista]

I wanted very badly for the melamine lacquer to work as well as in the videos. I just haven't figured it out. It gums up on me or pulls fibers off the applicator and has to be redone. I haven't given up entirely. But it's a lot less foolproof than pens plus.

I am curious, as I did not do this before when I was using Melamine lacquer....have you tried thinning it? I am not sure if it can be thinned with normal lacquer thinner or not...but, maybe its worth a try?

 

[jrista]

<<Sadly, I now have a mountain of other finishes, most of which have either gone bad (for sure all the shellac based ones), or are likely to go bad soon (oil based), that will never get used. >>

My experience with finishes is the same as yours. I've always wanted a durable finish for my pens. I've been satisfied with the Melamine as demo'd by Mike @ CUSA. I was using a 50-50 mix of Deft gloss and lacquer thinner applied with the lathe running. I think applied 7 coats and had to apply the finish, wait a minute, buff a minute and then repeat the process 6 more times. This was because applying the finish was just a quick wipe. I did see a youtube recently where the guy was using CA glue (thin) and boiled linseed oil. The application looked pretty easy, but I'm not sure about the durability. YMMV. I've only tried the Melamine process on bocote and I'm not very knowledgeable about which finishes work best on the various kinds of wood

I've actually experimented with the BLO+CA thing. I've also done pure walnut oil (PWO for short), so PWO+CA. From my research in the past (I guess it was 2021 now or so) the two cross-link with each other to form a new kind of polymer. In my experience, it feels very nice, almost rubbery and feels quite rich...but, it does not seem to be quite as durable as pure CA. Further, if you use BLO it does yellow wood, and PWO does very slightly as well, although not as much.

What I will often do these days is put on a coat or two of PWO, let that soak in to bring out the chatoyance, then put my CA (GluBoost) over that. That bottom layer will cross-link with each other. Then the rest is all CA.