Medical Tourism

[Scott]

Here is an interesting article on CNN about traveling to other countries to receive medical care:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/11/news/companies/health_care_medical_travel/index.htm

I find it interesting that now employers and their health insurance plans are not only paying for treatment in other countries, but evidently are now encouraging it!

My "day job" is to pay medical bills for people who can't afford it on their own. Anymore, who CAN afford it? I could say a lot about the cost of medical care in the USA, but I'll give one example: We pay our local hospital, at the Medicaid rate, at 57%. That means they have to write-off the other 43%. And I know that they MAKE MONEY at the rate we pay them!

Scott.

 

[phillywood]

Here is an interesting article on CNN about traveling to other countries to receive medical care:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/11/news/companies/health_care_medical_travel/index.htm

I find it interesting that now employers and their health insurance plans are not only paying for treatment in other countries, but evidently are now encouraging it!

My "day job" is to pay medical bills for people who can't afford it on their own. Anymore, who CAN afford it? I could say a lot about the cost of medical care in the USA, but I'll give one example: We pay our local hospital, at the Medicaid rate, at 57%. That means they have to write-off the other 43%. And I know that they MAKE MONEY at the rate we pay them!

Scott.

Scott, it's unfortunate that our system is like that. BTW, when you get that bill form the hospitals it's already inflated 150%, because they know that most people or insurance companies won't pay anywhere close to it. So, when you pay them at 57% they still make profit.
On, one of my surgeries Humana paid a 45000 to the hospital now you go figure how much the actual bill was presented to them.

 

[David Keller]

... We pay our local hospital, at the Medicaid rate, at 57%. That means they have to write-off the other 43%. And I know that they MAKE MONEY at the rate we pay them!

Scott.

I doubt very seriously that your local hospital turns a profit on a Medicaid reimbursement rate. I know physicians routinely lose money on Medicaid patients... How do I know? I are one!

One thing that most people fail to consider when they see a payment of $100 to a physician is overhead. Many physician offices have greater than 50% overhead, and medical malpractice insurance often exceeds $50,000 per year. Throw in local, state, and federal taxes, and that $100 doesn't look so impressive.

You mentioned your day job is paying medical bills for those who can't afford them, but really isn't that the day job of everyone who pays taxes to some extent?

I don't disagree that medical care is very expensive in the US, but I wouldn't want to be sick anywhere else.

 

[bitshird]

I don't disagree that medical care is very expensive in the US, but I wouldn't want to be sick anywhere else.

I wholeheartedly concur, there must be a reason that many dignitaries from other well developed country's come to the United States to have many procedures done!!
I wish my children could afford Medical Insurance.

 

[Gary Max]

Heck Ken---I wish your friends could afford it-----

 

[maxwell_smart007]

It still knocks me around a bit when I think of having to PAY to go to the doc....everytime someone complains about that, I think about how hard that must be....I just don't THINK about that - never occurs to me!

Never had to experience that myself, and I hope those of you who need doctors can afford it!

 

[Gary Max]

There are a lot of folks that go without Medical care here in the states.

 

[bitshird]

And that's part of the reason medical costs are so high. They may not have insurance, but when the time comes they will get medical attention usually at the expense of everyone else, I've heard some people say they won't go to a hospital if they wew having a heart attack, I tend to strongly disbelieve them, for several rwasons
1 their spouse mate ot significant other WILL call an ambulance
2 The pain is just past unbearable,
3 if there is a law officer around they will be taken to the hospital
4 they may think they can stand a lot of pain BUT mild ones sure they aren't too bad, I had a series of them over a 3 year period, when the big one hit, I knew nothing about it, I just passed out at work and woke up with a bunch of stuff sticking out of me gagging for air.
5 I used to tell people that crap my self.
It sounds noble to tell every one you won't go because you can't afford to go but I'll bet a half chewed cookie you will go when the pain gets severe enough,
6 it would take some kind of monster to sit by and watch your Wife, Husband, Lover, Son, or Daughter suffer and die if there was something you could do to prevent it.
It seems to me that no Hospital that accepts public funding can refuse to accept a patient for emergency medical treatment just because they can't pay. I believe that is the Law in most places,

 

[EBorraga]

Insurance seems high to most people. Especially the ones who seldom use it. I pay $480.00 a month for my medical insurance. When I was on dialysis it was $1000.00 a treatment. I went 3 times a week for 4 years. I recently had a kidney transplant, that was $485,000. 2 months later I got sick and was in the hospital for 17 days, $108,000. My medicine runs $4700.00 a month. One pill that I take once a day is $3000.00. That $480.00 a month is a very small price to pay, in my case.

 

[Gary Max]

Ken How many people in this country have lost their homes to hospital bills?????

 

[bitshird]

Which is harder to replace your home or your life??

 

[bitshird]

Insurance seems high to most people. Especially the ones who seldom use it. I pay $480.00 a month for my medical insurance. When I was on dialysis it was $1000.00 a treatment. I went 3 times a week for 4 years. I recently had a kidney transplant, that was $485,000. 2 months later I got sick and was in the hospital for 17 days, $108,000. My medicine runs $4700.00 a month. One pill that I take once a day is $3000.00. That $480.00 a month is a very small price to pay, in my case.

Ernie I know exactly what your talking about, I hated paying out, I think my part was 180.00 a month, but after the By pass we kept paying it even when it went to COBRA , my meds are about 2100.00 a month, now with Medicare and my supplement I'm paying 220.00 a month plus about 35.00 copay on Meds. NO WAY I would be with out it, I'd find something else to get by without, I got covered by my wife's policy where she worked until I turned into an Old Fart I'll be glad when she gets old too.

 

[EBorraga]

I had insurance through work. Then I went on Dialysis and couldn't work, so I picked up Cobra. I was able to carry Cobra for 18 extra months due to instage renal disease. It ended the month I got my transplant. I now have Medicare and a supplemental insurance. I also have medicare part D for my drugs. I pay a $4.00 copay for each of my 9 medicines I take. Not a day goes by that I don't count my blessings.

 

[Smitty37]

Medical care cost

I recently had 2 stents installed in an artery feeding my heart....Catherization procedure....3 hours in OR, 1 hour in recovery and about 18 hours in room...22 hours give or take total stay. Paid by health plan $11523.38 ($1200 was room and board) --- Billed by hospital $35239.50 -- Disallowed by Medicare $22616.12. Just three years ago I had a similar experience in another hospital 4 hours OR 8 hours recovery...
total time in hospital includint waiting time for the OR 16 hours. The Bill $7000 paid so the cost went up over 50% in just 3 years. 40 years ago my wife had twins delivered by C-section. Cost of my wife spending a week in the hospital with both babies in the Nursery...$1500(about $215 per day for all 3 and we thought that was outrageous.

 

[Gary Max]

"My medicine runs $4700.00 a month."

Ken what happens if they decide you ain't worth it ?????????????

 

[bitshird]

Gary, I am worth it you might not be but I am, I've paid for health insurance since I believe 1967 0r 68, it's one of the advantages of living in the system. It enables you to work for companies that provide health insurance. I suppose you could sell off some wood and get help if necessary. Besides it's Ernie's meds that run 4700.00 a month. And I think he and I are both worth it. Nanny Nanny Phoo Phoo!!!

 

[livertrans]

I had insurance through work. Then I went on Dialysis and couldn't work, so I picked up Cobra. I was able to carry Cobra for 18 extra months due to instage renal disease. It ended the month I got my transplant. I now have Medicare and a supplemental insurance. I also have medicare part D for my drugs. I pay a $4.00 copay for each of my 9 medicines I take. Not a day goes by that I don't count my blessings.

__________________
I see some hope for myself now. I had a liver transplant 7 years ago and I was planning on working until the Day I die to be able to pay for my meds. Meds are less expensive now than what they were in the past because I am taking less of them. Presently It costs me 480.00 a year after my co pay on my insurance. With out insurance it would cost 16000. out of my pocket. I had fantastic insurance at the time of my transplant, they paid 100 % plus hotel and meals for my wife. I never seen a bill. Now i am employed else where and my insurance dosent pay worth a crap. And meds have all been changed to generaic meds. I had problems with one of my anti rejection meds and after a battle with the ins company my doc changed my one med to something that had no generic counterpart. Medicare part D will be something i will have to look into.

 

[bitshird]

Tony it's a life saver, it cost's me 90 something a month and my Blue Cross supplemental is 120 and change, but it's the best 220 a month I have ever spent, I just hope this crap about Medicare is just a bunch of scare tactics, if it isn't there's going to be a bunch of us older guys in trouble, My bill for my Triple By Pass was 14.00 , I don't even remember what it was for. but the bill was somewhere around 130,000.00 so I can't whine too much.
I will say if I lived closer to Nogalas or Juarez, or Laredo, or maybe any of the Arizona border towns, I would probably go there for dental work Dental insurance I don't have kind of running short of teeth as well.

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

As an insider, I see the P&L's on many major hospitals in the area. I can tell you that we lose money on Medicare and Medicaid patients at an incredible rate. Additionally, if it wasn't for donations from corporations, foundations and individuals, most hospitals would shut down within WEEKS. I work for a non-profit hospital group, you can't get rich providing healthcare as a facility.

There are exceptions like HCA - they do okay as a For-Profit Corp.

If you want to follow the trail a bit farther, look at the Profit-Loss statements of your major drug companies and health insurance groups.

Pfizer does pretty well.
United HealthCare also is extremely profitable.

It may sound easy to point fingers down the line and blame hospitals, physicians, etc, but follow the $$$, the $ trail don't lie.

.

 

[livertrans]

Ken, One fella I work with had a tripple by pass 3 months ago and his portion of his bill is close to just under 40,000. He had to have a second surgery because he was leaking internally after the first surgery. So I count my blessings and hope I never have any problems in the future.

 

[Smitty37]

Who pays

If you are collecting $2000/$3000 a month from insurance and paying $500 premium that's a bargain .... for you. But, keep in mind for that to happen there have to be 3 to 5 people paying $500 a month and collecting nothing....that's not a bargain. That is the reason employers are opting out of paying for health insurance, they have foot the bill for everybody, both the employee who is collecting and the employee who is not collecting and the costs have become too much to bear.

I don't know what can be done....single payer socializeed programs are in trouble all over the world so I doubt that's the answer. The answer has to come from getting the actual medical costs in line but I sure don't know how to do that.

The major part of our problem is that we demand too much medical care. We are often demanding medical treatment for malady's that are not much more than a minor inconvenience to us. We have gotten good at keeping people who not too long ago would have been dead alive but, now what do we do:?

 

[bad]

I don't know what can be done....single payer socializeed programs are in trouble all over the world so I doubt that's the answer. The answer has to come from getting the actual medical costs in line but I sure don't know how to do that.

At this point I'd like to throw my 2 cents in to this conversation. First I need to point out that I'm a Canadian. While we have a radically different system it's got just as many problems as your system does. In fact it appears our problems such as long wait times for medical treatment are the exact polar opposite problems as your system has. I would like to submit that the solution (or at least a possible solution) for both of our systems would be to look at other systems in the world. Other countries (such as Japan or Sweden just to name two) use a mixture of public and private Medicare. I'd also like to point out that these hybrid systems have far fewer problems than exist in either of our two countries.

When the medical systems are being debated on either side of the boarder I've noticed much hand wringing and finger pointing across the boarder (by individuals on both sides of the 49th) and saying nonsense such as "we can't make any changes or we'll end up with their system". We on both sides of the boarder need to realize that comments such as that are dammaging and unproductive. Neither of our systems can continue unchanged. Both systems have major warts. We both need to look at other parts of the world and use our collective brains to figure out a better system. No system will be perfect but it shouldn't be too hard to find ways to improve our respective systems.

Ok, that's my 2 cents worth. I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[bitshird]

Ken, One fella I work with had a tripple by pass 3 months ago and his portion of his bill is close to just under 40,000. He had to have a second surgery because he was leaking internally after the first surgery. So I count my blessings and hope I never have any problems in the future.

Tony, Same thing with me, I was trying too much too fast and started building fluid around my lung. No surgery per say but they did have to drain it which was a big bummer, and another 3 days in the hospital, with the CABG I was out in 4 days, but they weren't taking any chances again. I haven't got the bill for last weeks cathiterization but I'm betting close to 5,000. when I had the stints the each stint was 1800.00 and an over night stay, I don't remember what the total was,
In all honesty I try and stay away from the Dr's as much as I can, but my primary insists on once a month. and if you follow the money it goes right to the drug companies and their Lawyers, part of the problem is look at how many law suits there are against drug companies and how many Lawyers are getting fat off of them. I've been on three recalled drugs, but I'm not going to sue. I'm on Avandia now and hope to heck they leave it alone. for good.
But I understand the fear the pharmaceutical companies have, it's one of the reasons drug costs are so high here, any one can sue them, not so easy in other country's

 

[nava1uni]

Bruce,
What you are saying makes sense. There are other systems that do work well and everyone gets insurance, not just those who can afford to pay. I work for a non-profit hospital and it is suffering from the continued reduce Medicare and Medicaid payments. Care is provided to all individuals, regardless of ability to pay. I know that many people believe that health care is not a right, but that is difficult for the individuals who need it, have to decide what medication they are going to skip this month, and those with children who need care for life threatening disease. It is important that everyone have health care to keep our citizens healthy, prevent communicable diseases and our country healthy in general.

 

[Scott]

I seem to have struck a nerve!

Well, good!

First, I am proud of us all that this has not devolved into a political discussion, and we have all been very civil about things. Thank you!

Insurance is a mixed bag. Yes they are the big evil. Or at least one of the big evils. But I will also tell you that even pretty poor medical insurance will literally save you when it comes to paying for major medical expenses. Get insurance if you can!

If you are buying medications out of your own pocket, find the closest Costco and buy from there if you can. They really do price their meds differently. Except for the $4 meds, I have seen Costco undercut even Wally World by as much as 40%.

If you are paying for medical treatment out of your own pocket, shop around. There is nothing that says you can't ask for prices first, and you probably should. If you're reading this, it means you have Internet access, use it to learn about alternatives. One of my clients (meaning he is poor) didn't like the cost of a proposed surgery even at our reduced rate, and went to Mexico to have his surgery for next to nothing. Did he take a risk in doing this? Yes. But remember, to be able to demand the best treatment you should also be able to pay for it. Maybe acceptable treatment would be OK.

Next, participate in your own health care. Ask questions, engage your doctor in a discussion about what is going on and what can be done. Use the internet to learn about what is going on. Become an informed consumer. If a doctor gets upset because you ask questions, then that may not be the doctor you should be seeing.

And I stand by my statement that our hospital makes money at the 57% rate they get paid by us. Doctors may be another matter. Medicaid rate for doctors can be as little as 30% of their original charge. Which really ticks me off, because out of all the medical treatment you receive, doctors are usually the "bargain" when you look at what they did and then look at what they charge.

Health care reform? Oh, don't you know, we just did that!

Sorry to have stirred things up.

Scott.