actually the drawing helped a lot i searched over the site to try and find some references to the mandrel turning, but even after several searches got vauge references to other stuff but not the turning, i have had a few of my turnings come up off center and thought this was due to my drilling, but as i have centered and recentered it and never came to a conclusion, im thinking that it was this off centering that was my problem, it just had never occured to me. anyway thank you for the diagram it was very clarifying,(regardless of what they say about your drawing) i recently ordered the drill set from the penn state site that cuts a rounded blank of the size you want, im looking forward to seeing how this works, but im now thinking i should have ordered a set of these dead centers first. thank you all for helping the new guy