Looking into taking the next step - kitless pens

[NGLJ]

I am sure that I am nowhere near the last who feels that just making "more" pens, however many variants that there are, is not that exciting. It isn't as if I don't have plenty of ideas or plans but I always relish a challenge. I have watched enough Utube videos to get an idea about what making kitless pens entails. I have a good selection of drill bits, and taps and dies. It would be helpful to know which sizes that I am most likely to need. Also, I am looking for a recommendation for a tailstock 2MT sliding die holder that works with the die sizes that I would need. I am not trying to make high end pens to sell. I am simply trying to satisfy my endless curiosity (a blessing and a curse ), and push myself to the limits of my ability in my remaining years. There are those who might say, "do you really know what you are getting into?", and they might be correct. I have never been one to shy away from a challenge until I master it, or until it masters me! All help is most gratefully received.

 

[KMCloonan]

I too am constantly looking for new challenges.

Check out some of the tutorials for kitless pens. All kinds of help to answer some of your questions.

Here's a link to get you started:

https://www.penturners.org/search/119150/?q=kitless&t=resource&o=relevance

 

[d_bondi]

Look up Rick Herrell's (@rherrell) Tool Catalog.

He has a very reasonable MT2 sliding ER32 Collet holder that you can use to hold die holders and taps.

He can also make you mandrels (cap, barrel and section) as well as step drills for the Nib Assemblies.

ALL of his stuff is top notch and he makes and ships very quickly!!

 

[Alan Morrison]

Beaufort Ink - An introduction to custom pen making

An introduction to custom pen making

www.beaufortink.co.uk

 

[egnald]

I was also going to suggest Rick Herrell. I recently bought one of his ER32 Collet based sliding tap and die holders. It is far superior to the one I had that used "drill chuck" style tap holders. - Dave

 

[NGLJ]

I too am constantly looking for new challenges.

Check out some of the tutorials for kitless pens. All kinds of help to answer some of your questions.

Here's a link to get you started:

https://www.penturners.org/search/119150/?q=kitless&t=resource&o=relevance

Thanks

 

[NGLJ]

Thanks to all for the great help! You have given me a lot to think about.

 

[NJturner]

Thanks to all for the great help! You have given me a lot to think about.

Same stage of life here. Just made my second crafted pen with moderate success.

I suggest watching two YouTube creators to give you a good head start. RJB Woodturners (Bob Blanford) has a video dedicated to what you will need to get started as well as a number of great videos on how to do it. Chad Schimmel of Turners Warehouse also has a series of videos on taking a crafted pen from the tooling to videos focusing on just the parts as you make it.

As for a sliding holder, I recommend Rick as well, or purchase a Niell's Niche holder from other sources. You will potentially need all three die holders as well as the tap holders for the slider. Lastly, purely luxury tool, but I love mine, is the Tenon Cutter from Heinze Pens. Is a great time saver and is super accurate for getting good threads.

Kevin

 

[hooked]

Do you have a particular size in mind? I can list the drills I use if you have a particular size in mind.

 

[Amihai]

I am sure that I am nowhere near the last who feels that just making "more" pens, however many variants that there are, is not that exciting. It isn't as if I don't have plenty of ideas or plans but I always relish a challenge. I have watched enough Utube videos to get an idea about what making kitless pens entails. I have a good selection of drill bits, and taps and dies. It would be helpful to know which sizes that I am most likely to need. Also, I am looking for a recommendation for a tailstock 2MT sliding die holder that works with the die sizes that I would need. I am not trying to make high end pens to sell. I am simply trying to satisfy my endless curiosity (a blessing and a curse ), and push myself to the limits of my ability in my remaining years. There are those who might say, "do you really know what you are getting into?", and they might be correct. I have never been one to shy away from a challenge until I master it, or until it masters me! All help is most gratefully received.

Tap and die selection will depend on the size of pens you wish to make. M15 will be for very large #8 size nibs. The more common options are M13 with M10 for #6 size nibs or M12 and M9 for #5 nibs. The tap size of the nib thread will depend on the nib itself.

 

[NGLJ]

Tap and die selection will depend on the size of pens you wish to make. M15 will be for very large #8 size nibs. The more common options are M13 with M10 for #6 size nibs or M12 and M9 for #5 nibs. The tap size of the nib thread will depend on the nib itself.

Still very much learning about what is needed. I don't have many specifics in mind right now. I think I will start with a rollerball for simplicity, and use it as basic practice with the taps and dies. Fountain pens are clearly more complex given the different nib options.

 

[d_bondi]

If you are just getting started and not sure if it is something you will really enjoy, I second Kevin's (@NJturner) recommendation to look up RJBWoodturner (Bob Blanford) on YouTube. He has a few great videos on "Bespoke on a Budget" where it uses minimal specialty tools and single start taps and die to keep cost down.

 

[Sugar Creek Pen Co.]

Look up Rick Herrell's (@rherrell) Tool Catalog.

He has a very reasonable MT2 sliding ER32 Collet holder that you can use to hold die holders and taps.

He can also make you mandrels (cap, barrel and section) as well as step drills for the Nib Assemblies.

ALL of his stuff is top notch and he makes and ships very quickly!!

I recently switched to Rick's sliding collet holder and couldnt be happier. I used a different brand before and just like the feel of this much better. No relation to Rick, just a very happy user of his tools.

 

[d_bondi]

I recently switched to Rick's sliding collet holder and couldnt be happier. I used a different brand before and just like the feel of this much better. No relation to Rick, just a very happy user of his tools.

100% agree Frank.

I also had another brand before and like Rick's better. I think that the ER32 collet setup is superior and even use it, with the appropriate size collets to hold the taps.

 

[NGLJ]

I took the advice to watch some of Bob Blanford excellent videos, and decided to try his "Bespoke on a Budget" to get started. After the expected initial frustrations, I have managed to make my first very modest desk pen (see attached). Like many of our activities it didn't quite turn out as I had originally intended! For example, I got too thin on the end of the body and it snapped off. So I had to improvise and make a cap. Also, the nib sticks out perhaps a couple of mm to far. I tried to "make do" without making the mandrel that Bob recommends, and that was the source of some of my problems. Lesson learned. I will get it right next time.

 

[NJturner]

I look at it this way - you successfully brought the pen to completion - yes, maybe a few design challenges along the way but you did it! There is a lot of broken pen parts in a bucket near my lathe from things that went boom, despite my best efforts - I count them as learning experiences!

Nice job! Keep it as a progress measure.

Kevin

 

[NGLJ]

I look at it this way - you successfully brought the pen to completion - yes, maybe a few design challenges along the way but you did it! There is a lot of broken pen parts in a bucket near my lathe from things that went boom, despite my best efforts - I count them as learning experiences!

Nice job! Keep it as a progress measure.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Your encouragement is much appreciated. Onward and Upward! The IAP is a great place to get supportive advice and learn without feeling judged.

 

[NJturner]

Thanks Kevin. Your encouragement is much appreciated. Onward and Upward! The IAP is a great place to get supportive advice and learn without feeling judged.

Agreed - and I hope it stays that way!

I am very excited to be meeting Bob Blanford and a number of other makers this weekend at the MATES event in Manassas, VA. Bob is one of the featured speakers and I plan on making sure I get to say hello. If I learn anything interesting regarding his plans or upcoming videos, I will be sure to post it on IAP.

Keep turning!!

Kevin

 

[egnald]

Agreed - and I hope it stays that way!

I am very excited to be meeting Bob Blanford and a number of other makers this weekend at the MATES event in Manassas, VA. Bob is one of the featured speakers and I plan on making sure I get to say hello. If I learn anything interesting regarding his plans or upcoming videos, I will be sure to post it on IAP.

Keep turning!!

Kevin

I am so Jealous!!! - Dave

 

[NGLJ]

That makes at least two of us! There is nothing in my location anything like that - GrahamJ

 

[NGLJ]

Are there preferred plastics for turning bespoke pens? Do people mostly purchase or make their own plastic blanks?

 

[duncsuss]

Are there preferred plastics for turning bespoke pens? Do people mostly purchase or make their own plastic blanks?

I think every pen maker has their preferences, mine are based on the threading characteristics of the material.

For example, Inlace Acrylester is a b*tch to thread, as are many polyester resins. On the other end of the scale, meaning very friendly to drill and cut threads, you have Alumilite and ebonite (hard rubber). Tim McKenzie sells a casting resin that feels a lot like Alumilite, he uses it in the DiamondCast blanks that he makes. Acrylic acetate (PMMA, Lucite, often abbreviated to "acrylic") is the standard material for off-the-shelf blanks from PennState and many other vendors - it's usually easy to work with. Epoxy resins can be okay, sometimes they are kind of soft and a bit bendy (that might just be my poor attempts at casting them, others might do much better.)

Then there are materials which are a joy to use because of their history - cellulose nitrate (celluloid) and cellulose acetate (ceblox, which Mazzucchelli sold under the brand name Cebloplast), galalith (sometimes called casein), and others. They can be difficult to work with because they are sensitive to heat and/or water, and can be expensive. But the satisfaction and pleasure when you get to the finish line is wonderful.

 

[NGLJ]

I think every pen maker has their preferences, mine are based on the threading characteristics of the material.

For example, Inlace Acrylester is a b*tch to thread, as are many polyester resins. On the other end of the scale, meaning very friendly to drill and cut threads, you have Alumilite and ebonite (hard rubber). Tim McKenzie sells a casting resin that feels a lot like Alumilite, he uses it in the DiamondCast blanks that he makes. Acrylic acetate (PMMA, Lucite, often abbreviated to "acrylic") is the standard material for off-the-shelf blanks from PennState and many other vendors - it's usually easy to work with. Epoxy resins can be okay, sometimes they are kind of soft and a bit bendy (that might just be my poor attempts at casting them, others might do much better.)

Then there are materials which are a joy to use because of their history - cellulose nitrate (celluloid) and cellulose acetate (ceblox, which Mazzucchelli sold under the brand name Cebloplast), galalith (sometimes called casein), and others. They can be difficult to work with because they are sensitive to heat and/or water, and can be expensive. But the satisfaction and pleasure when you get to the finish line is wonderful.

Thanks for the excellent info. I had no idea that there were so many possibilities. I can understand the importance of threading especially where there will be a thin wall. I am pleased that I asked.

 

[NGLJ]

My Quilt Pen - I have been "trying" to make a "bespoke" pen with a cap for the past few days. There were many occasions when it nearly made it into the "garbage bin". However, recognizing that you often learn the most by fixing your mistakes, I persevered, and did get to the end. In the process I ended up with my Quilt Pen, being made up of various pieces to fix my mistakes. It isn't pretty but it is a bespoke pen with a cap. I doubt that anyone would set out to make such a pen!

 

[d_bondi]

Congratulations on powering through that first pen! My first kitless was also a mutt.

You wan watch a zillion YouTube videos, read everything available here, and talk to may makers, BUT you will learn the most by making and more from the challenges than the ones that go smoothly.

Keep up the good work!

 

[NGLJ]

My next effort was to try and go "slimmer" to improve my plastic turning skills via a desk pen with Cross style refill. Slimmer also means thinner in places, which brings its challenges. Still learning what you can get way with and what you cannot. I used M8.1 to join the section to the body. M7.1 would have left more material for the body but less room to drill an accurate 1/8" hole into the section. I might try M7.1 on my next one.

 

[NJturner]

Nice work on both pens! I'm also trying to figure out 'just how slim' I should go on the body and cap. I was exceptionally lucky to have spent a few hours with Jim Heinze at the recent MATE event and that is pretty much what both of us worked on together - really overcoming my fear of the whole thing just being to flimsy, while still keeping the pen light and with good hand feel. My second task given to me by Jim was to make it solid, thin and postable - which added a whole new aspect to the design. I succeed with one, but it too was a bit of a 'quilt' as it took a few additional inches of blank stock to redo both the cap and the body due to some failures. Going to keep at it so I can do the third set of tasks - adding a clip! Who said this wasn't challenging?????

Kevin

 

[NGLJ]

Tried to make "slim" pen with cap today. Let's just say that it is a "work in progress". Trying to use M7.1 for the section and M10.1.25 for the body and cap. Managed to make the parts but the section threads detached when trying to finish the section. Called it quits for the day in the end to let my back get some much needed rest. Getting older isn't much fun at times!

 

[Sugar Creek Pen Co.]

Smallest I've been able to do on a fountain is 11.7mm diameter. Will need to try one with a Schmidt or Parker style refill.

 

[NJturner]

Tried to make "slim" pen with cap today. Let's just say that it is a "work in progress". Trying to use M7.1 for the section and M10.1.25 for the body and cap. Managed to make the parts but the section threads detached when trying to finish the section. Called it quits for the day in the end to let my back get some much needed rest. Getting older isn't much fun at times!

I picked up a suggestion somewhere along the way to help with the breaking section threads - put a drill or a piece of drill rod into the section hole when using a mandrel that holds the section by the threads. It will help give the connection a bit more strength to help keep it from breaking. Rick Herrel also makes a special mandrel for sections that doesn't hold it by the threads, but not sure if he makes one as small as you are making the section. Good luck!!

 

[NGLJ]

Very nice fountain pen, Frank. It's way, way beyond where I am right now, and perhaps beyond my capabilities. Plastic is enough of a challenge at the moment!

 

[NGLJ]

Some success in making a "slim" pen with a cap for a Cross style refill. You will readily notice that the section is a different color. That is because I messed that up, and didn't have any more blue. The body is 10mm, the cap is 12mm, and the section is 8.5mm. I don't think that I can go much thinner. In future I aim to make everything from the same material, and make the cap and body a little shorter. There is some room to do that.

 

[Sugar Creek Pen Co.]

Very nice fountain pen, Frank. It's way, way beyond where I am right now, and perhaps beyond my capabilities. Plastic is enough of a challenge at the moment!

Thank you! Just keep working at it, I've only been making pens for a few years. You figure it out as you go.