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johnnyw

Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
41
Location
Piedmont, Alabama
Hi,

I started turning pens last May, and I'm about ready to start selling them, I've had several people ask about buying a pen. I'm still working on my finishing that passes my inspection. My question is what do most of you do about selling? Do you get business cards made up, do you set up a LLC, get a web site or just start selling your product. Any advice is welcomed.

Johnny
 
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Johnny, I have cards, a website and a sales tax permit, but no business license, some areas don't require one, some areas are much more strict, best to check at your local level.
 
It does depend on the state. I started with business cards and then a website. I had to get a vendors license to collect sales tax. I am now saving up to get an LLC since I am branching out into other things.
 
I know if you don't sell over a certain amount a year it is considered a hobby and a license is not need for sales tax. I Virginia you can used your ssn but to get a LLC will limit your liablity if you get a vendictive customer. Just like the lady who sued for the hot coffee that did not have the word hot on the cup.
 
Different people do different things including everything you mentioned. It really all depends on what YOU want to do. Business cards are easy. You can make them yourself if you want. Setting up a website can be a lot of work to both set up initially and to maintain as well as small ongoings costs. How you set up your business (LLC or not to LLC) is a lot more complicated and depends on a lot of things.

The most important thing is to stay on the right side of the tax man, both sales tax and income tax. If you are selling you should be collecting, reporting and filing sales tax. You also now need to report income for federal and State Income Tax. If you go the LLC route it will be a bit more complicated.
 
BE CAREFUL with sales tax.

SOME shows (even local church-type) are giving a list of exhibitors to the State Dept of Revenue. Not because they WANT to, but the state is demanding it.

Once a state has your business name, you MAY have to file a "no sales this quarter" to stay out of trouble. (If you didn't do a show, YOU know that, THEY want to know it too!!)

Not true of ALL states.
 
It really gets complicated when you do shows in multiple states, Some I have to file monthly.some the promoter collects some I file quarterly and then I even have some cities that I need to get a license, so you can see every local is different.
 
Pen Company

I started giving away pens to friends and relatives. This lead to selling a few to friends, then a few business associates. My company started buying pens to give to our clients.

I have since done business cards, working on a web site, and will be doing a craft show. I have a business license, an occupancy permit for my little shop in the back yard and am registered wiht the sec of state.

I do collect tax for both state and parish (county) and pay of a quarterly basis as an occasional filer. Each state has different rules.

A friend got caught selling some of his products without collecting or paying taxes. He got a large fine and had a bunch of attorney costs.
No worth the risk, just set up a little company and follow the tax rules.
 
All I have is business cards but I do this as a hobby and have just sold a few pens to individuals. If I ever start to try too really start selling my work the first thing I would do is get everything right with the tax man as Jim suggested. Every state is different but if you don't keep the tax man happy you won't be in business very long.
 
I would like to recommend a book for you if you are considering an LLC. This book will help you answer whether you need an LLC or not, the types of LLC's, and even has help on doing the paperwork for each state. It is called "Form Your Own Limited Liability Company" by Attorney Anthony Mancuso. It comes with a CD-ROM.
 
I know if you don't sell over a certain amount a year it is considered a hobby and a license is not need for sales tax. I Virginia you can used your ssn but to get a LLC will limit your liablity if you get a vendictive customer. Just like the lady who sued for the hot coffee that did not have the word hot on the cup.

In the first place, having an LLC does not magically bestow limited liability on you for your business activities. If you want legal advice, take it from an attorney instead of from a web forum. In the second place, the McDonalds thing is often used as an example, and almost always used incorrectly. Here, for your reading pleasure, are some of the actual facts. This cut-and-paste is taken from an on-line legal news archive, but you can goggle it and find your own verification.


There is a lot of hype about the McDonalds' scalding coffee case. No
one is in favor of frivolous cases of outlandish results; however, it is
important to understand some points that were not reported in most of
the stories about the case. McDonalds coffee was not only hot, it was
scalding -- capable of almost instantaneous destruction of skin, flesh
and muscle. Here's the whole story.

Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico, was in the passenger seat of
her grandson's car when she was severely burned by McDonalds' coffee in
February 1992. Liebeck, 79 at the time, ordered coffee that was served
in a styrofoam cup at the drivethrough window of a local McDonalds.

After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and
stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her
coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often
charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in
motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed
the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from
the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled
into her lap.


The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next
to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full
thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body,
including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin
areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she
underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement
treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds
refused.

During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
this hazard.

McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants
advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to
maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the
safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell
coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is
generally 135 to 140 degrees.

Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company
actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185
degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn
hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above,
and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured
into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn
the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns
would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing
the "holding temperature" of its coffee.

Plaintiffs' expert, a scholar in thermodynamics applied to human skin
burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full
thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony
showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent
of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus,
if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would
have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.

McDonalds asserted that customers buy coffee on their way to work or
home, intending to consume it there. However, the companys own research
showed that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately while
driving.

McDonalds also argued that consumers know coffee is hot and that its
customers want it that way. The company admitted its customers were
unaware that they could suffer thirddegree burns from the coffee and
that a statement on the side of the cup was not a "warning" but a
"reminder" since the location of the writing would not warn customers of
the hazard.

The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount
was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at
fault in the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in
punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee
sales.

Post-verdict investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the
local Albuquerque McDonalds had dropped to 158 degrees fahrenheit.

The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 --
or three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called
McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.

No one will ever know the final ending to this case.

The parties eventually entered into a secret settlement which has never
been revealed to the public, despite the fact that this was a public
case, litigated in public and subjected to extensive media reporting.
Such secret settlements, after public trials, should not be condoned.
 
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From the tax standpoint, sales tax is very important. Get your license and stay current with your payments no matter what. Keep good records. In California, most businesses are audited about every 5-7 years. That is at least the goal. An LLC or other taxing entity are expensive to maintain. California has a minimum annual fee of $800 and depending on revenue there is also another fee starting at $800. You will also have a tax preparation fee and so on and so forth. I would just report it on Schedule C on your personal tax return. Chances are you will have some losses in the beginning so be careful of the hobby loss rules. If the IRS rules your efforts as a hobby instead of a business you can only deduct expenses upto revenue. I am a CPA and prepare taxes for a living. With such a boring profession, I had to have a fun hobby.
 
It is worth the time to talk to a local business CPA to give you a bit of guidance about how to set these things up. Not only to local and state ordinances apply, but you also have income tax issues and some simple business rules to follow.

You needn't spend an arm or a leg to do this, and lots of these guys will give you an hour or so free, specially this time of year. Seperate checking accounts from your personal stuff and any other business you do are a good start. Also, buying a business software, like quicken as an example, will go a long way towards giving you the back office tools you might want to stay on top of the detail that will help you understand what it truly costs to run a busines.

There are many tips to get about what you can do and just as important, not do, in your business. Just a couple of the tips can save you lots of dough around tax time.

I like the LLC as a business model, mostly because of the liability protection, but it can be overkill if you are going to stay small.
 
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