Legal ????

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tseger

tseger

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
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613
Location
New Albany, MS, USA.
I was wandering... what are the rules about making pens with logos or names of a certain company or organizations? What got me thinking about this is a post on IAP right now with Frito Lay logo. What about college mascots? Name brands?.....
Tim
 
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This will undoubtedly open up a can of worms, but in its simplest form, if you use a trademark without the permission of the trademark holder you are in violation of their rights and MAY find yourself facing civil liability. The same holds true for copyrights and patents.
 
I think the legality is not just with pens, but with any merchandise displaying a copyrighted logo or trademark. I'm no lawyer, but I think a license has to be purchased to sell merchandise with a logo owned by someone else or at least written permission must be obtained. The laser engraver I use will not engrave any copyrighted logo for me unless it is for the company who owns it or I can show that I have legal permission to use it. You may want to read this re:NCAA college logos: http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/Public/mlp/licensing/faqs.html#1

We have some attorneys here who know about this subject. Maybe they can give us some (free) advice:D
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by tseger

I was wandering... what are the rules about making pens with logos or names of a certain company or organizations? What got me thinking about this is a post on IAP right now with Frito Lay logo. What about college mascots? Name brands?.....
Tim
Click to expand...
 
I remember reading recently ( I cant remember which forium it was on, it may even have been here) where a penmaker was making denim blanks. He had previously made them showing a well known company logo but the company got on his case and he now does them with no logo
 
The operative word is "may". Make one pen for yourself, there would be no problem. Sell it, maybe a problem. Sell several, be prepared to pay lots of money to lawyers. The companies who protect college mascot logos are, excuse the pun, bulldogs about infringement.
 
well, I wonder about the limits. Is it only the trademarked logo that is protected or anything of a similar nature?

The official logo of FSU seminoles for example is a spear point. But if I do a slightly different spearpoint in Garnet and Gold, is it still protected? So how far does the protection go?
 
Originally posted by Russianwolf

well, I wonder about the limits. Is it only the trademarked logo that is protected or anything of a similar nature?

The official logo of FSU seminoles for example is a spear point. But if I do a slightly different spearpoint in Garnet and Gold, is it still protected? So how far does the protection go?
Click to expand...

I don't know much about Florida State. How many attorneys will do "pro-bono" work for them?

Then consider how many attorneys will do the same for YOU?

Now make a decision how close to their property you want to infringe?

Dawn would love to do StarTrek stuff. I frequently remind her they are "bigger, stronger" and more "attorney endowed". Heck, even JimGo has gone on perpetual sabbatical, so we (IAP) are left "out in the cold"![:0][:0][:0][:0]
 
So.... My Son has just graduated from U. of MS and my Daughter is there now. If I make a pen for them with the Rebel mascot, more than likely,nothing will be said. On the other hand, if I make a bunch of them to sell, I'm probably asking for trouble. Is this correct?
Tim
 
Originally posted by tseger

What got me thinking about this is a post on IAP right now with Frito Lay logo.
Click to expand...

That's me...

I work for Frito Lay.... and I am not selling pens. I wonder how that fits into the scheme of things if you work for the company??.. or go to the school?

Hmmm... Interesting thread... gonna be watching this :D
 
It does not matter whether or not you sell an item with the infringement. It does not matter if you work for the company that owns the trademark. It does not matter if you go to the school with the trademark or copyright. It does not matter if you work for the company who holds the patent. If you use something that belongs to someone else without their permission (and/or payment) you have violated their rights. Period. Will they take you to court? I can't predict that. Can you afford to defend your actions if they do? I can't answer that either. Regardless, your are violating the rights of the owner. Period.
 
well, there is one other factor. the owner has to have historically protected the trademark.

From my understanding, if the owner has neglected to protect the trademark for the past say 10 years, then they will have a hard time starting now.
 
OK, one more question. The Ole Miss Rebels had their mas mascot (Col. Reb) banned several years back. Nothing the college has printed or commercials or anything can display Col. Reb. Of coarse to an Ole Miss fan, He is still the mascot. How would I find out if the image of the mascot itself is copywrited?
I looked at the link that Don provided above, but couldn't find specific things that were copywrited other than sayings, or slogans like "The Final Four"
"The Road to St. Louis"...
Tim
 
Just wanted to add that I don't want to "infringe" on anyones rights that's the whole reason for this post.
But if I can do this without any infringement, I think these will be some sharp pens.
Tim
 
THAT opens another interesting avenue.

A LOT of Indian mascots have been "chopped out" in the last few years. Are they still "protected"???

Where IS JimGo when we need him???:D:D:D:D

If we had smilies with a headdress I would have used it!
 
would a slight variation of the origanal logo Etc Etc. change anything,say a longhorn with his tongue sticking out or Col. Reb with one eye closed,I had a pen made for my son with texas A&M put on it and the graver said it was okay as long as they did'nt use the exact logo.??
 
I mentioned that most schools license through the NCAA office. I should have said the CLC.

As to modifying the logo and trying to use it...
You still have to be careful in that the modification is such that the intent is still there. A trash service in Austin, TX, was taken to court over use of a logo that was similar to the Univ of Texas logo. THey lost and had to reomove the "longhorn" logo they had been using.

Texas A&M took Seattle football to court over the use of the "12th Man". Texas A&M won, forcing Seattle to pay a royalty if they wanted to use the "12th Man".

Just be real careful.

Rick
 
I did a job for a customer whose wife graduated from Penn Law School. I had to get permission to use their logo. As long as it was one pen not a problem use it with-out payment other then that they would be asking for royalties. Here's another example. I did a prototype of a pen for the Baseball hall of fame. For the Base ball hall of fame and myself to use the pictures of the players, coaches, etc. The Baseball hall of fame and myself would have had to pay 1M per inductee. So the project did not go through.
 
Ed,
I'm weighing in, but don't see the need to - most have given good advice. Some trademark owners (that's really what you're dealing with here, not copyright) are highly protective about their marks. They have to be - even a little bit of unauthorized usage can create confusion and dilution, and SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the value of the mark. My firm represents some very large trademark owners, and I can tell you that they regularly enforce against even small guys. Granted, most of the time it is settled amicably when the violator receives a cease and decist letter and complies, but some are obstinate and, at that point, the firm will undertake more drastic measures.

As Alan implied, much of the time, if you pitch the work you're doing appropriately (e.g., VERY limited production, or at the request of an alumni, etc.), the owner of the mark is likely to be flattered and willing to work with you. But, the terms are going to be pretty strict (must be certain colors, must identially match the logo/mark, etc.), even where the cost is minimal. Still, it will be FAR less expensive in the long run to simply ask permission up front. A typical trademark defense (i.e. litigation) can easily reach into the several tens of thousands of dollars, and frequently gets much more expensive. That's not a risk I'm willing to take to sell a $100-$200 pen.

Besides, our pens look too nice to be engraved! How many people do you know who have an engraved MontBlanc, Waterman, or Boone?

As a side note - thanks to everyone for checking in with me periodically! I hope to be able to get back to pen making in the new year!!! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone!!!!!!
 
Thanks!!! Jim.

For you newer members - that was the esteemed JimGo. He was a great guy, wrote often on the forum.

Now, however, he believed he could embark on home renewal (in his own home). You know, FLATWORK, CABINETRY, FLOORBOARDS -- all those things that a little lathe knowledge make you believe you can accomplish. Unfortunately this has been the demise of our friend, Jim. Last report I had, he was buried under several feet of half-cut crown molding, reduced to a "muttering fool".:(:(:(:(:(

Thanks for visiting us, Jim!!


We who know him certainly hope for a speedy recovery.[8D][8D][8D][8D]

Oh, he also coined the phrase, "Ducks and runs for cover!!" (I believe)

<center>Miss you, Jim. Come back soon!!!!!!!!!!!</center>
 
I come from a little bit different side of this discussion, but the same is true if you are Disney trying to protect the mouse ears or some podunk editorial/arts business like me. What we own of value is intellectual property rights, there are loophold filled laws protecting intellectual property rights, but the loopholes are enormous.

My epxerience is that pen makers are for the most part hard working, hands on, straight shooting, honest craftspeople. We learn from each other but we don't cheat or steal. I see deals going on every day when one person sells another some blanks or tools and tells them to pay later if they feel it was worth the cost.

Please, please, please, don't turn yourselves into intellectual property thieves. Graphic images and written words are real property. You can probably get away with copying them without great fear of retribution, but you are still stealing; just as sure as shoplifting is stealing. Artists, writers and companies who build empires based on their work are legitimately protecting their legal intellectual property, please respect those property rights.

Gerry
 
I'm still interested in the "retired" mascot side of this. All those poor "Indians" that were cast aside in a rash of political correctness and the alumni who remember them as the heritage of their school.

I think there is an opportunity here.

Once the school says "NO more Indians", Can I use their "cast asides" to my own benefit???
 
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