Label Casting

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jasonbowman

jasonbowman

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Joined
Jun 20, 2007
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87
Location
MARIETTA, GA, USA.
I can't seem to keep the ink on the labels from running. I have tried photo inkjet printers, color laser printers, etc. I have used Avery labels, photo paper stickers, inkjet labels, etc. I am casting with PR from Michael's. Anybody have a super secret fix?
 
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I've tried it but before I cast it I covered it in a layer of Modge Podge (sp?). You need to go all the way around it to keep the paper from getting soaked and looking splotchy though. I think someone here did a tutorial about photo casting, I'll try and look around for it.
 
Although I've never done this, wouldn't a thin coat of CA before casting work just as well? Again, since I have never done this, attempt at your own peril!
 
I have used Avery 5263, 8253, 8463 as well as Epson's photostickers and various experimentations with clear labels... I've burned them on a cannon PIXMA 5000, an HP color laser, cannon 9000 and on an Epson R2400. The darker colors seem to be ok but yellows and light blues "bleed" and streak slightly...

I am beginning to think it is something with the PR mix...
 
When do they bleed? When I was trying to do it, I had a set that looked good, but I took it out of the mold too early and started to turn it. Everything was fine until I started to sand, then it became one gigantic blob. So my questions are
1. How long are you waiting until you turn them?
2. How fast are you sanding?
3. How do the colors look before you start turning?

Oh and I tried wiping with CA and not, I did not see any difference.
 
Jason,

At first I made it complicated doing most of the things suggested above. Don Ward (it's virgil) made it easy for me. He says to generously coat the label with your uncatalyzed PR just prior to your pour with catalyzed PR. There will be enough heat to kick off the layer of PR that surrounds the blank. I've done... it works. No fixatiff... no glue.... no waiting.... Just print it off - stick it on the tube - gloop it up and pour. It works for me. Good Luck
 
I use Avery 8254 for Ink jet printers. Cast in PR (not from Michael's) and I've not had a problem of any kind. I do paint the tubes white. I think the 82xx series labels have been reported to work better than other numbers. Try holding your mouth differently. ;-) Good luck in getting the kinks worked out.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

jasonbowman said:
I can't seem to keep the ink on the labels from running. I have tried photo inkjet printers, color laser printers, etc. I have used Avery labels, photo paper stickers, inkjet labels, etc. I am casting with PR from Michael's. Anybody have a super secret fix?
Click to expand...
 
hewunch said:
When do they bleed? When I was trying to do it, I had a set that looked good, but I took it out of the mold too early and started to turn it. Everything was fine until I started to sand, then it became one gigantic blob. So my questions are
1. How long are you waiting until you turn them?
2. How fast are you sanding?
3. How do the colors look before you start turning?

Oh and I tried wiping with CA and not, I did not see any difference.
Click to expand...

Hans, are you asking for answers or are you asking the original poster? I can't tell. If you're asking us then:

1. I wait at least 24 hours to turn what I cast.
2. I sand at 1800
3. Mine looked fine and I've put CA on it to seal the ink and used the craft glue. Both kept it from bleeding, but I wasnt real happy with the way it looked.
 
As to hewunch's questions: I have yet to even get to the turning stage (you can see the bleed prior to touching the blanks). I have tried CA but the cast looks funny. I will try the Mod Podge and try the PR coating before pouring in the cat PR...
Thanks to everyone for their help - I have gone through 10 blanks trying to get this to work...
 
I've gone through a dozen or so myself, so I feel for you.
I got around the bleeding just fine.. I dug out an old Alps printer that
was in storage and I finally found a use for it! (dry ink ribbons)
No more bleeding, and using the white cartridge means the color of the
tube doesn't show through, either. Plus, it takes silver and gold metallic
ribbons, so I can get some pretty striking labels.

Now, if I could just get the casting down ..
 
Casting labels is a lot like casting snake skins. I have not experienced ink on the labels bleeding. I wish I knew the exact cause but it could be: (1) label quality. I use only Avery brand labels. Maybe other brands (such as Office Depot or Office Max) do not use the same paper that Avery uses. I have not tried some of the house brands. (2) Ink quality. I use a LexMark printer. I would guess that inks are much the same but I don't know for sure. (3) Resin. I use Silmar 41 and the resin currently sold by Composites One. Both have performed great.

Maybe reading the process for casting snake skins might be of some benefit. Mine is here: http://www.RedRiverPens.com/articles

I do hope the kinks are worked out soon.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
jasonbowman said:
As to hewunch's questions: I have yet to even get to the turning stage (you can see the bleed prior to touching the blanks). I have tried CA but the cast looks funny. I will try the Mod Podge and try the PR coating before pouring in the cat PR...
Thanks to everyone for their help - I have gone through 10 blanks trying to get this to work...
Click to expand...

Post some pictures of your failures. It will be easier for us to help if we can see what is going on.
 
Here's the one I did with paper, covered in CA to seal it, then resin. I didn't turn it clean because I could tell it wasn't working out. Pretty gross:

DSC02608.jpg


DSC02607.jpg
 
The only time I have had the ink run is when I accidentally used the clear labels -- and it ran prior to casting. But I use similar41 not the resin from Micheal's but it should be the same. I've ruined a lot of castings, but ink running was not the problem. I did once try CA over the label prior to casting to get a stronger hold that did not work.
 
Still working on this .. got a few micro bubbles in the cast. Also didn't like
the ends .. seems like something got under the edge where the tubes end.
But this is closer than I've gotten before..
 

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Charlie,

Are you casting under pressure? I had the same problems until I finally got my pot set up. It makes all the difference. You did a really nice job on this one though. I love the fact that you dug out the old printer. I use an "out of date" dot matrix printer to run 1-3/4" ribbon through for motivational awards for our church because new printers won't run things that skinny. There are still some things that "new and improved" can't best! Keep up the great work.
 
I did cast under pressure, and I just stopped into the shop to see how
yesterday's efforts went.

.. let's just say that I am now an expert in stabilizing cork and BB's :tongue:

I applied the labels, put CA on the cork, filled with BB's, glued the corks
to a small square piece of luan I had hanging around. Brushed on resin that
had no catalyst in it and put them in the mold.

Mixed the resin and put it in a container under vacuum for about 15 minutes.
Micro bubbles on the surface .. looked OK
It was one of those kitchen gadgets for sucking air out of the container.
Don't know how much vacuum it has, but it was enough to crack the
plexiglass container if you turn it on too high.

THen poured the resin into the mold with the blanks and put it at 30lbs
pressure overnight. De-molded fine, some haze in one of the molds and
a few small bubbles. I need a vacuum pump, just no money to do that
right now. Maybe I can skip filling the gas tank and buy one.. :tongue:

Even with CA, some of the resin found it's way into a couple of the tubes
right through the cork. Enough to scrap the blanks.

Found that the resin binds the bandsaw ..and even the table saw. That
surprised me. (even with a metal/stone cutting blade!) Perhaps it should
cure more so there's less binding, I don't know. Feels dry, but who knows
about when it gets hot?

Anyway .. it's still work in progress. The metallic labels that looked so good
in the light don't seem to have the metallic sparkle once they're cast.
Not sure if that has to do with light properties in liquid or not.
More to come.. Thanks for comments.
 
NewLondon88 said:
I did cast under pressure, and I just stopped into the shop to see how
yesterday's efforts went.

.. let's just say that I am now an expert in stabilizing cork and BB's :tongue:

I applied the labels, put CA on the cork, filled with BB's, glued the corks
to a small square piece of luan I had hanging around. Brushed on resin that
had no catalyst in it and put them in the mold.

Mixed the resin and put it in a container under vacuum for about 15 minutes.
Micro bubbles on the surface .. looked OK
It was one of those kitchen gadgets for sucking air out of the container.
Don't know how much vacuum it has, but it was enough to crack the
plexiglass container if you turn it on too high.

THen poured the resin into the mold with the blanks and put it at 30lbs
pressure overnight. De-molded fine, some haze in one of the molds and
a few small bubbles. I need a vacuum pump, just no money to do that
right now. Maybe I can skip filling the gas tank and buy one.. :tongue:

Even with CA, some of the resin found it's way into a couple of the tubes
right through the cork. Enough to scrap the blanks.

Found that the resin binds the bandsaw ..and even the table saw. That
surprised me. (even with a metal/stone cutting blade!) Perhaps it should
cure more so there's less binding, I don't know. Feels dry, but who knows
about when it gets hot?

Anyway .. it's still work in progress. The metallic labels that looked so good
in the light don't seem to have the metallic sparkle once they're cast.
Not sure if that has to do with light properties in liquid or not.
More to come.. Thanks for comments.
Click to expand...

I suggest using rubber plugs instead of cork. I use knitting needle point protectors that I got at Walmart:

PointProtectors.JPG



Also, I only cast @ 20 PSI.

Instead of vacuum try either a sonic cleaner or use your compressor as a vibrating table to help get the bubbles out.
 
I'm no expert. Only been casting about 8 months, but I don't use a vacuum. Didn't have the money either. I do use twice the pressure you're using and leave it overnight or 12 hours depending on when I did the pour. Those are the only 2 differences between your process and mine. Will your pot sustain 60 PSI? If so, you might give it a try.

The more mistakes you make and correct... the more you learn. Once you get this figured out.... you might be the expert!
 
td said:
Interesting isn't it? 20 PSI - 30 PSI - 60 PSI...
Click to expand...
For those who think higher pressure is better for bubbles thinking that the pressure compresses them, that's not the case. The reason we vacuum or use ultrasonics/vibration tables is to get dissolved air in the resin out of solution. The reason we use pressure is to keep what air is left in the resin still in solution. Think of a soda bottle - when under pressure the dissoved gas stays in solution - you don't see bubbles when the liquid just sits there on the shelf. Remove the cap and release the pressure and the gas comes out of solution. If compressing the bubbles was what was really happening, they wouldn't shrink that much. The gas law some of us learned in school says that pressure is inversely related to volume so if the pressure is doubled the volume only decreases in by 1/2 - still a large bubble. Best practice for clear casts in PR is to degas with ultrasonics followed by about 20 pounds (more than enough) pressure. Many a clear cast has been made with this method. For insurance, coat the inside of the tubes with mold release. If resin gets in, it can usually be removed with a little effort and the blank is saves.
 
Blind_Squirrel said:
I suggest using rubber plugs instead of cork. I use knitting needle point protectors that I got at Walmart:
Also, I only cast @ 20 PSI.
Instead of vacuum try either a sonic cleaner or use your compressor as a vibrating table to help get the bubbles out.
Click to expand...

I've got the needle point protectors. In fact, there's some in an envelope
with your name and address on it, since I didn't know if you used them.
Someone said to glue cork into the tubes, so I tried that.

I tried the vacuum based on another tutorial I saw the other day. I didn't
mention vibrating because I didn't see it making a difference. But I put it
on the scroll saw and turned it on. It vibrated a lot, but the air bubbles
didn't seem to move a lot. 10 minutes was all I could take. And I don't
have an ultrasonic cleaner.. I looked. I even searched through old stuff
to see if I had an old jewelry cleaner around somewhere

I was even thinking of adding a touch of styrene as a thinner .. to make it
easier for the bubbles to clear. It would extend the open time, but after
I pour, I pressurize and then put the pot aside till the next day. So I'm not
looking for a few hours turnaround .. a couple of days won't bother me.
 
Although I appreciate the info I guess I should have said that much of my casting has other media besides PR (pincones, silk flowers, tiny leaves). The only failure I've had casting under pressure happened when I didn't check to make sure the pressure was holding and left it overnight. Next morning the pot was at 20 PSI. I made racks that give me 3 levels in my pot. The casts that were just straight PR were indeed fine. When I cut the 2 casts that were pinecones into blanks I found multiple holes where the lack of pressure did not force PR into some small crevices.:frown: Since I usually have multiple types of casts altogether in the same pot I use a higher pressure.:) But, then again, this is just what works for me.
 
I just finished this bottle stopper. The emblem is from my brother inkjet printer. Before casting I sprayed on about 4 coats of lacquer. The ink didn't run but a few air bubbles.
sorry about the pictures I don't know why they came out crummy
 

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Change your focus or you're to near of the bottle stopper step back a little
and repost the pictures


tommyd said:
I just finished this bottle stopper. The emblem is from my brother inkjet printer. Before casting I sprayed on about 4 coats of lacquer. The ink didn't run but a few air bubbles.
sorry about the pictures I don't know why they came out crummy
Click to expand...
 
Many Many years ago, I did some decopage... there is a liquid you brush over the picture before you put the sealant on... might look at that.... don't remember what its call now, but Hobby Lobby, Micheal's or any good hobby store will have it.. probably even Wally-world
 
Just bringing this back from the dead :)

I'm just throwing this out there because it works for me. I coat all of my labels in multiple coats of aerosol hairspray.

I've been making cigar band pens and this seems to be the ticket for me. Lots and lots of hairspray. It takes time but it works
 
jharvey1309 said:
Just bringing this back from the dead :)

I'm just throwing this out there because it works for me. I coat all of my labels in multiple coats of aerosol hairspray.

I've been making cigar band pens and this seems to be the ticket for me. Lots and lots of hairspray. It takes time but it works
Click to expand...

Hairspray is lacquer.
 
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