Is casting cheaper than buying blanks

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airborne_r6

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Have you found that casting your own blanks saves you money on a per blank basis? I am referring to 2-3 color sparkly, swirly blanks.

I want to start casting my own blanks to give me more control over my colors but also thinking that it will save me some money on the cost per blank.

It seems to me that it should be cheaper to cast myself.

Calculating the cost of resin I figure about $1 per 3/4 x 5 blank figuring $49/gal of Silmar 41 from Woodnwhimsies and 10% waste. Is that accurate?

What I am not sure about is the cost of the colors per blank. I realize my color cost will depend entirely on what I buy and how much I use. What I am wondering is on average how much resin can you tint with say 3/4 oz of Pearl Ex or 1 oz of Mica powder from Coastal Scents?

I understand I am not considering the cost of equipment such as molds, mixing supplies and pressure pot. I am not concerned with this, I am only concerned with the cost of the resin and coloring.
 
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In theory ---

Assuning no bad blanks, few pours that come out ugly, a short learning curve, and you turn a lot of blanks into pens,

And you find you have a talent that others appreciate......


Otherwise, do it for the adventure, the opportunity to be creative and origional.


Kind of like pen tuening
 
Just a few thoughts here. You will probably have more than 10% waste (at first) as you do trial and error and learn the techniques that will give you the results you're looking for.

The Pearl X and mica powders go a LONG way for the average person. Unless you intend to make enough blanks to sell on this site, its not really a material cost on a per blank basis. This is especially true if you get your Pearl X from Hobby Lobby and use their 40% off coupons!

Dyes can get expensive, depending again on what you're attempting to do. I use Alumilite for my blanks, and found that its sometimes cheaper to buy solid color blanks rather than to make my own, as the amount of dye can be substantial. Using Silmar would probably cost less for both the resin and the dye, but I would pay close attention to the dye consumption, just to make sure, if you're wanting to make solid color blanks. Also, look around on the internet, as there is quite a difference in price for dyes between trade or industrial suppliers and hobby suppliers.

I hope this helps.
 
I think 10% waste is wildly optimistic, especially in small batches. You will have to make a lot of blanks to ever get your cost below what you can get in the market. Obviously, some can make them for less than you pay retail, or they would not sell them. They either do a bunch of them, or they have a process that you will pay dearly to learn.
Like Ken said - do it for any of those reasons and let the cost work itself out.
 
airborne_r6 said:
Have you found that casting your own blanks saves you money on a per blank basis? I am referring to 2-3 color sparkly, swirly blanks.

I want to start casting my own blanks to give me more control over my colors but also thinking that it will save me some money on the cost per blank.

It seems to me that it should be cheaper to cast myself.

Calculating the cost of resin I figure about $1 per 3/4 x 5 blank figuring $49/gal of Silmar 41 from Woodnwhimsies and 10% waste. Is that accurate?

What I am not sure about is the cost of the colors per blank. I realize my color cost will depend entirely on what I buy and how much I use. What I am wondering is on average how much resin can you tint with say 3/4 oz of Pearl Ex or 1 oz of Mica powder from Coastal Scents?

I understand I am not considering the cost of equipment such as molds, mixing supplies and pressure pot. I am not concerned with this, I am only concerned with the cost of the resin and coloring.
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Wayne,

Is difficult to give you an accurate answer to your questions from Australia where, materials prices are very different and we don't have alumilite in Australia however, if the cost of setting the casting set-up isn't something you worry about, I don't think that making a few blanks will matter that much either...!

There are many factors to consider, and casting is not just casting, there are many ways and materials possibilities to think about, for example, is a big difference between casting 100% acrylic blanks and blanks where wood is part of the blank composition. You use less resin in these but you have to account for a lot more time on their preparation before they are ready to put in the mold, then you have the "floating" problem that you also have to deal with, this may not count for the materials costs calculations but will certainly weigh heavy of the time required to make them.

Back to materials costs, colourants are expensive and can surprise you of you much money you need to invest to get a few blanks done...!

I just got an order from my resin supplier I only order the resin and some Pearlex colours, It cost me $230 for resin and $180 for colours, no hardeners (catalyst), no acetone no other consumables that I order on each second order lots so, yes, colours are a cost to consider seriously...!

Do you save money by making them yourself...??? if you only make a few for yourself, no you are not saving anything, they will cost you more than buying on eBay or from someone selling them at almost cost price (I see lots of that, and I'm also very guilty of that...!) however, there are some pen blank makers that put a lot of time effort and extra expense in making very high quality cast blanks, they are a lot more expensive than the regular stuff you see everyday, I'm not going to discuss if they are overpriced or not as that is not the issue here but, the point that I'm getting at, is that, you would put one of those high quality and expensive blanks on a Slimline, wouldn't you...??? but, one of those blanks on a high end kit can fetch many hundreds of dollars if done right off-course, what do you think the $500 to $1,000 or more pens, were made with...???

So, the point is and as I said before, not all castings are the same, the production costs are a direct result of what you use/will use so, you making a cast that cost you $100.00 (very possible), you would make a pen for yourself with it, no problems but, would you be putting it on pen kits that don't sell for more than $50 regardless of what you put on them, would you be making them for sale when, no one would be willing to pay such a price, regardless of how much time, effort and everything you have put on it/them...??? This is when casting can fire back on you and hurt you wallet...!

Now that I brought attention to some of the negative or aspects that one has to consider when considering starting casting (if money and time is no issue then, none of this would matter, anyway, huh...?:wink:), the positives of casting are also important.

Firstly, you create your own blanks, pretty or not is irrelevant, you can experiment at your own cost and time, and you can enjoy that creativity juices flowing out of you. There is a great amount of excitement (this is good for the soul) to find out how they turn out. If you are a drug addict or someone that enjoy getting "high", most people will get it regardless from the chemicals involved so, you get your "fix" for free or at least at no extra cost.

Another positive of casting, particularly if you use PR (Polyester) resin is that, if you don't have a shed or a dedicated space to work, you have a good chance that the wife will finally agree in having that shed built, as far from the house as possible, there is also a very good chance that the shed doesn't get built and you are going to start to sleep in the dog's house...!:eek::biggrin:

Making pens with your own made blanks, is always a pleasant thing, regardless of which kit or price range value the pens would be evaluated at, if for sale, pretty or not, they are yours, you made them, no one will have another exactly the same, ever...!

I cast, I like casting and encourage (always have) anyone to give it a go, the limitations are only controlled by your own brain...!

So, good luck with it...!

Cheers
George
 
I have only just started casting my own pen blanks. I believe at some time in the very distant future, it may turn out cheaper. For now, I'm really enjoying the artistic freedom of creating my own designs in resin blanks. So...if you're only intent is to have a quick return on investment by reducing the cost, it may not be for you. If you want to open your pen turning experience up to a whole new world of opportunity, I say do it and don't look back!

Ted
 
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I failed to talk about this in my first post, so I am glad that George and Ted added their comments. Making your own blanks is a LOT of fun (although it can be frustrating at first, just like penmaking.) We recently poured Alumilite blanks at our local club meeting and it was really a lot of fun. It unleashes your creativity and you will really be excited with the results, even if they aren't the most gorgeous blanks at first. And if you sell your pens, you can say that theres a combination of art and craftsmanship in every one of YOUR pens.
 
No one is talking about the rest of the process. If you want to really get into casting, you want pressure, and that means a compressor and a pressure tank of some sort, what are you casting? Are you casting blocks that you will cut? Are you casting with tubes already in for specific pen types, then you need molds...
 
I appreciate everyone's comments.

I am working on developing some items that will essentially be mass production items; to the extent that I will not even advertise them as hand made, only unique. These are some items that I believe will sell well, are easy to make and for which I already have a decent advertising venue.

I mostly want to cast my own blanks to ensure a supply of the colors that I use in these items. I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my supplier has the blanks that I want when I want them, or worse if a supplier stops carrying something that sells well for me. For instance, I found an old blank in the pile of blanks my wife has purchased that I absolutely love and everyone who has seen the things I made from it loved it and wants stuff from it. Woodcraft no longer carries it and I have not been able to find a similar replacement.

The blanks I will be making will not be going on anything high end, I definitely appreciate what a good blank does for the pen, and I am not trying to cut in on anyone's business either. In fact, if what I want to do is actually profitable, I will be able to afford to buy more blanks from people :biggrin:

If the material cost per blank is less or equal to the cost of commercial blanks then I will cast my own. If casting is more expensive then I will buy commercially and deal with supply issues. This is why the per blank cost is important to me.

I am aware of the costs of the rest of the process, e.g. pressure pot and molds, but am mostly concerned with the ongoing cost not the set up cost. I have wanted to cast for a long time, so set up costs and learning curve costs are being treated as hobby and are not expected to be profitable.

Summary:
The whole question boils down to should I wait to develop my production items until I have casting figured out and my own colors to build around or should I develop my products now around commercial blanks.

I am good either way, the deciding factor is the per blank cost of materials for casting.
 
Now I have a better understanding of your situation. My advice would be to start with commercially produced blanks. The situation you describe at Woodcraft is not unusual for them, in that the local dealers don't always know when or why something is being discontinued. By contacting the owners directly of the various pen blank providers, you would be able to determine which of their blanks are in continuous supply vs. limited production runs. Rhinoplastic is made in the US and anything made or supplied by Berea should always be available. The independents (Exotic Blanks, Woodturningz, Woodnwhimsies, Beartooth Woods, Arizona Silhouette) would all be happy to work with you to insure that you don't run out. Once production has been established, if you think of colors that aren't currently available, you could branch into pouring your own, in a small way and see how it goes. There is a certain value to the time saved by pulling a blank off the shelf vs. spending a night mixing resins and dye.

I hope this helps.
 
I started casting around the first of this year.

I cast using Alumilite in a rectangular mold that I get 7 - 5 1/4"x3/4"x3/4" blanks from. I cut it up on the band saw as to not waste as much material on saw kerf with the table-saw. I made my molds from cutting board material.

If I got the resin during the IAP birthday batch @$120/2 gallons my blanks cost me .93c each.

If I got the resin not on sale @$160/2 gallons my blanks cost me $1.17 each.

These costs do not include the colorants(dye, powder, etc) or equipment.

I've been lucky (I think because I read everything on this site about casting Alumilite) and have not had any casting failures, so everything I've cast I use. No 10% loss (yet).

BUT! - I didn't start doing this so save money, I cast for the fun of it as well as another creative path. I cast for pens, wildlife calls, bottle stoppers, treen handles, and boxes.

Lots of fun to be had.

Tom
 
OOPS said:
Now I have a better understanding of your situation. My advice would be to start with commercially produced blanks. The situation you describe at Woodcraft is not unusual for them, in that the local dealers don't always know when or why something is being discontinued. By contacting the owners directly of the various pen blank providers, you would be able to determine which of their blanks are in continuous supply vs. limited production runs. Rhinoplastic is made in the US and anything made or supplied by Berea should always be available. The independents (Exotic Blanks, Woodturningz, Woodnwhimsies, Beartooth Woods, Arizona Silhouette) would all be happy to work with you to insure that you don't run out. Once production has been established, if you think of colors that aren't currently available, you could branch into pouring your own, in a small way and see how it goes. There is a certain value to the time saved by pulling a blank off the shelf vs. spending a night mixing resins and dye.

I hope this helps.
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This does. I think I will start out with 5-10 blanks that are readily available, and add colors as I learn to cast. Eventually I am planning to cast with the tube in for these products. I would rather spend the time casting than drilling, reverse painting and gluing tubes

HamTurns said:
...
BUT! - I didn't start doing this so save money, I cast for the fun of it as well as another creative path. I cast for pens, wildlife calls, bottle stoppers, treen handles, and boxes.

Lots of fun to be had.

Tom
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This is exactly why I want to start casting. The cost of casting just determines the timing of development of some products.
 
Certainly this math is only an estimate at best, but based on the cost of the resin, catalyst, and commercially available pigments, your unit cost can be as low as $1.20 each give or take. Given variables such as shipping costs, waste, and other supporting materials, even if you double that, your still at a price that is below most of the commercially available blanks. Even if you take into consideration the cost of equipment like a small compressor and pressure pot, the per unit cost is still very reasonable.

Ted
 
Displaced Canadian said:
One thing to think about is when you cast your own you can cast closer to the size you need. As an example, we buy 3/4x5 blanks and in most cases use 1/2x4 1/4.
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That was part of my plan. A 1/2" diameter blank is less than half of the volume of a 3/4" diameter blank of the same length.
 
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far, I particularly agreed that some of the best savings on making your own blanks is that you can use the round tube and mold savers type, they are certainly an enormous resin/powders/hardener savings, due to the smaller amounts of mix used BUT, things change considerably when you cast and sell, the Industry standards are 19mm even then, some people wouldn't buy anything under 20mm at least, I have seen/know of people that make or cut all their blanks @ 1" square/round, they just don't feel comfortable with anything less, why, mainly because of 2 reasons, first they can't drill straight and second, they have to have their pens made with these huge bellies and all sorts of large bulges. There are only 2 things that I know the 1" pen blanks are essential, either to make large cigar pens or to make a pen for someone with bad hand arthritis, I have made/carved and even molded a few but apart from that, I can see any other need for such big sizes.

When you make/cut pen blanks for sale, you have to provided the minimal Industry standards, well when I say "you have", there is no "obligation" to do so, you can sell them in any size/length you want, the only problem is, would people buy them...???

So, is a big difference is between making your own use blanks and selling what you make, with the large variety of pen kits available and now with the kitless style starting to become so popular, selling a pen blanks that cover all these differences or that that can use in all these variations, the blanks has to be of certain dimensions, I decided to do mine @ 21mm square x 130mm long and the only constant requirements I have is to make them 6" long, and I know why...!:wink:

I'm actually considering starting to do that, with the solid wood ones, there is a little extra difficulty with the diagonal and cross cut blanks and with the Resifills (cast with resin), new molds are require but after that is just a little more resin that you get back by increasing the price slightly.

With solid resin blanks, you don't require any extra materials but with the wood/resin combination if you only do a small amount of pens and therefore cut small amounts of wood, you may find extremely difficult to get any of those nice "bits" of wood you require for casting, unless you cut a lot of burls, most woods bought in footboards, don't have any of the characteristics you require for casting therefore, you have to source your raw wood materials elsewhere and that, can be costly...!

What I'm trying to say here is that, making your own cast blanks can become a much more expensive exercise that initially planned/though, if you want to enjoy the pleasures and the "nasties" of own castings, sure it will give you lots of fun/excitement however, If you are considering making them for sale, many other "things" have to be considered, one is particular is, what are you offering different than everyone else...!!!
Also, something to consider seriously is "time", you can spend as much time fiddling with stuff and is no one's problem, than yours BUT, you can't expect others to give their time away, particularly if they are trying to make a living, materials and equipments costs are not the only thing to consider, when you buy someone elses made products, you can't expect of not having to pay for "time", in many cases, time is a higher cost/factor than anything else involved, that will increase to sale price...!

Solid acrylics made in high production machines are flooding the market everywhere, you can't compete with that and make any money, if money is no issue, the only way you are going to empty your stock very quickly is to, give them away, that my friend, anyone is free to do...!

Cheers
George
 
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I have absolutely no idea as to whether it's cheaper, but I pour my own blanks to be a little more creative. It gives the pen a little extra something when you explain how you made it.
 
robutacion said:
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far, I particularly agreed that some of the best savings on making your own blanks is that you can use the round tube and mold savers type, they are certainly an enormous resin/powders/hardener savings, due to the smaller amounts of mix used BUT, things change considerably when you cast and sell...

Cheers
George
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I trimmed your comment down to make it easier to respond to. I have absolutely zero intention of making blanks to sell. I am going to make blanks for my own use.

The cost is not a determination factor in whether or not I cast blanks. The cost is a determining factor in whether I wait to start selling a couple specific products until I am making them with my own blanks.

From what I am reading it seems prudent to start selling the products based on commercial blanks and then add my own colors once I get casting figured out.

I realize from the question I asked it seems as though I am wanting to cast to save money. That is not the case. I want to cast so I can have the colors I want and so I can say I poured the resin and to have fun with a new aspect of the hobby. The cost of casting is related to a separate project and just helps me to understand how and when to integrate the two things.
 
I trimmed your comment down to make it easier to respond to. I have absolutely zero intention of making blanks to sell. I am going to make blanks for my own use.

The cost is not a determination factor in whether or not I cast blanks. The cost is a determining factor in whether I wait to start selling a couple specific products until I am making them with my own blanks.

From what I am reading it seems prudent to start selling the products based on commercial blanks and then add my own colors once I get casting figured out.

I realize from the question I asked it seems as though I am wanting to cast to save money. That is not the case. I want to cast so I can have the colors I want and so I can say I poured the resin and to have fun with a new aspect of the hobby. The cost of casting is related to a separate project and just helps me to understand how and when to integrate the two things.
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Well Wayne, in that case, I would be starting my own castings ASAP and start selling your pens with YOUR blanks from day one, that would make a lot more sense.

You already stated that the casting set-up costs are not a problem so, based solely on what you just said, I see no reason why you can't start casting immediately.

There are endless amount of YouTube videos and information everywhere about the issue. If you have easy access to the equipment and casting materials, you could be de-molding your first cast batch in 24 to 48 hours from NOW...! that easy...!:wink::biggrin:

If you want to start selling "genuine" home made/dressed pens, this is the only way to go...!

PS: Any of the casting areas I discussed in my posts, are of general nature, they would apply to anyone...!:)

Cheers
George
 
robutacion said:
Well Wayne, in that case, I would be starting my own castings ASAP and start selling your pens with YOUR blanks from day one, that would make a lot more sense.

You already stated that the casting set-up costs are not a problem so, based solely on what you just said, I see no reason why you can't start casting immediately.

There are endless amount of YouTube videos and information everywhere about the issue. If you have easy access to the equipment and casting materials, you could be de-molding your first cast batch in 24 to 48 hours from NOW...! that easy...!:wink::biggrin:

If you want to start selling "genuine" home made/dressed pens, this is the only way to go...!

PS: Any of the casting areas I discussed in my posts, are of general nature, they would apply to anyone...!:)

Cheers
George
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I am most likely ordering resin and colorants next Wednesday. :biggrin: I am just waiting for one other thing.
 
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