Inquiry about large order

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Woodchipper

Woodchipper

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Cleveland, TN
Earlier, I had posted a thread about three pens for a fundraiser. I got a call today and let it go to voicemail as I didn't recognize the number. My first thought from the VM was about a pen I made. Thoughts of the pen falling apart, blank splitting, etc., crossed my mind. Surprise! I was asked if I might be interested in making 40-50 bolt action pens. A supplier retired and the order would be ordered by a third party, known to this lady who left the VM. No details as to finishes, blanks, etc. which would be by this third party. OK, my questions are:
1. How do I handle an order of this size? Assuming that all would be made and delivered together. 2. Mass produce by turning all blanks at one time, finishing and assembling them as one time? 3. Pricing? I can't remember what I priced the pen for the auction! Duh! I'm not bashful so I will ask her. There would be shipping involved which would seem to be the upper Midwest. Sales tax shouldn't come into play since these will be shipped outside my state. I will ask the revenue office, just to be safe.
Any and all advice are most welcome. Thanks two bunches!
 
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Congratulations on the potential large order. A few suggestions: Provide the customer with an invoice detailing what you will provide and get at least a 50% down payment. As for pricing, be careful not to discount too much as it will still take a good bit of time and by the time you get to 30 or so, you will be sick of them! If I had the order, I might do them in batches of 10 so that it breaks it up without losing some efficiencies. Good luck!
 
My first thought is this maybe a scam? I've heard of businesses getting large orders out of the blue and they get everything and then asked to use a weird unknown shipper or something else just not right.

I've heard about it in the biz I'm in, printing, and oddly a casket maker. Do you know this lady?

Maybe it's late and I'm overthinking this.
 
Yes I would get alot more info and do nothing until you get some money in hand. Get everything in writing on both ends of the deal. Photos will help. Cross tees and dot i's.
 
Congrats! I agree with Karl_99 - get 50% up front. I had two 30-pen orders last year and this worked very well for me.

Here are my tips for "mass production" (some repeats from above):
  • Detailed invoice, get sign-off via email or signature
  • 50% up front to cover your costs, remainder on delivery
  • Order extra kits & blanks (for a 30-pen order of the same kit I'd do 3 or 4, it sucks to realize you need a new kit or blank and have to wait days plus pay extra shipping)
  • When the kits arrive, inspect all parts (tedious, but also painful to find out near the end that you've got bad parts)
  • You may want to remove all the parts from the plastic bags and put them into little boxes or bins
  • If this is a new kit, turn and finish one first to make sure you know the gotchas
  • Set up a jig to cut all blanks as close as you dare to the tube length (depends on experience, reduces time to square the tubes)
  • Drill all blanks (reduces setup time)
  • Tube all blanks (not sure this is a time-saver, just not my favorite part)
  • At this point, turn, sand and finish however you like
Recently I've been working with more porous wood (e.g. white oak), so I like to let the CA finish cure for a day or two before final sanding and polishing. If this is your finish and you like to do the same, then my suggestion is to set up a flow where you turn, sand and apply CA for however many you can final sand and polish in one session of work. For example, if you are able to find 2 hours every day to work on this order, and you can turn, sand and CA two blanks plus final sand and polish 2 blanks in those 2 hours, then your CA will cure for a day and you'll have enough to work on tomorrow. I hope I've worded this well enough to make sense.

Best of luck, and let us know how it turns out!
 
A couple more thoughts regarding how much to charge. After receiving the big orders, I offered significant discounts without any prompting whatsoever. Isn't that nice?

HOWEVER, one way to turn a hobby into a job is to add a due date. The extra stress of a due date on top of my "day job" made me regret those discounts. One big reason to discount is to entice a prospect to actually buy something, but there was no need for that in these instances - they already agreed to buy at the posted price on my Etsy page. And to echo Karl_99 on this - you will get sick of them at some point.

Another reason for a discount is to encourage repeat business. If you think this person will order from you again next year, then you might consider it.

I now consider all my costs (kits, material, EXTRA kits & material, sanding and finishing supplies, shipping if not paid separately, shipping supplies, etc.) and multiply by 2.5 to get a ballpark estimate of what I want to charge. I use the ballpark to round up or down to get to a "9", like 39 or 49. I also use an estimate of $0.50 for sanding and finishing supplies.
 
hbillings said:
...if you are able to find 2 hours every day...
Click to expand...

Yeah, probably worth doing a little math and estimating how long it will take you to do the pens. Maybe even time yourself on one - I didn't realize how much time I spent on finishing until I filmed myself making a pen and then when putting the video together... wow, never realized how much time my CA process took. I did an 8 pen batch one time, and there is some economies of scale, but not on all the steps. For my 8 I drilled and glued 10 blanks, figuring I'd weed two out along the way. Well, two blew up in turning, so ended up with just the right amount.
 
Thanks. Not a scam as the lady making the inquiry was a speaker at our conference last week. She is known to the organization. Plus I sat in on her round-table discussion the first day. Just turn a blank that is the same size as the bolt action for time-and-motion study. 50% up front was my policy in custom fishing rods. Put all conditions, finishes, due date, etc. on paper- definitely. Due to the volume, I might go with gluing the tubes with a 30 minute epoxy; cheaper than CA and can do more tubes with a small amount. One thought is the material- wood turns real fast. Acrylic takes a bit longer to turn and polish with MM. But there is no CA to apply. I'm thinking shipping would be to Minnesota as this is where the lady lives. Need to check into my PP account and see if it is still active. Had it for rod building and worked great. Retired and baseball season is over so time isn't a factor.
Did I miss anything? Thanks as you have given me lots of information for this inquiry.
 
We do a few large orders every year, mostly for repeat customers. I'll be turning a 75 pen order this weekend. For repeat customers I don't do any partial advance billing, but for one like you describe I would definitely get half up front.
For the order of 75 I started out with 80 blank sections and kits. I'll probably damage one or two and if I have a couple extra at the end I'll send them along with the 75 that are being paid for.

We go through each process for the whole batch; cut, drill, paint, glue, trim, turn, sane, buff, assemble. Every pen we make follows the same production process whether it is 75 pens from the same blank or 75 pens from 75 different blanks. Everything we make goes through the same set of production processes in batches and 75 pens is about an average batch size.

Prices are always negotiated, but I'll go as low as 50% of our normal selling price range to get a large quantity order. We sell at art shows, our normal biggest expense is booth fees and travel to shows. With a large quantity purchase more than half of our usual expense is not incurred.
 
Thanks, Chasper. I'm going to look at the total picture before committing as my time can be limited. With baseball over, this gives me two or three hours extra in the evenings. Have to watch the time in the shop. Knee problem is pointing to turning while sitting on a stool.
 
Danger they're a stranger. Money up front to cover costs.... or a reputable escrow holder. Would not do custom work. Your choice of blanks. As for time schedule... think it over. Give yourself time without rushing or going nuts.
 
Woodchipper said:
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...

Yes, you did',you missed out on contacting the actual customer. And after doing that, that is when you should have asked all of your questions. By doing like that, you could ask specific questions regarding the actual order. You did get some pretty good replies to the questions asked, hopefully, they'll get you to where you know how to go about filling the order. It is a fairly easy kit to do up, so you shouldn't have any issues. I've only ever had two large orders like this to fill, and those two were more than enough. I made good money off of each order, but money isn't why I got into this "Hobby". I found that filling large orders of fifty pens or more, to be more like work than a fun or enjoyable hobby. And with me being in the condition I'm in, I rely on that hobby to help me with pain management. So, with how long it took to find something enjoyable that I could do, I would hate to get sick of doing it.

Len
 
I don't know who will be buying the pens yet. The lady who contacted me will be getting the information for me. Then I can ask questions by phone or email.
 
WriteON said:
Danger they're a stranger. Money up front to cover costs.... or a reputable escrow holder. Would not do custom work. Your choice of blanks. As for time schedule... think it over. Give yourself time without rushing or going nuts.
Click to expand...
If I recall, the bolt action was a camo pattern from Woodcraft. Need to check my WC invoices to see what it was as they have two camo patterns. I'll only tackle the job if all blanks are the same. Will keep you posted on this. Thanks to all.
 
I seams that every thing has been covered really well. The only thing I could add is about pricing. You may be tempted to give a deeply discounted price to get the repeat business but, keep in mind the price you set now will be the price that is expected is the future. I personally have done this and 200 plus items later am still honoring that same price of which is way lower than it should be. Just saying make sure that the price you give today is the price you would want tomorrow.
 
You could do some work up front, without even speaking to the customer. If you know the kit, which it seems that you do. Do your homework on pricing and what finishes you can us, plus, how long it would take to process the order. Check into how much the antler would cost you, if you don't already have enough on hand. There's lots you can do beforehand. The more info you have and know about the kit when asked, makes you look more experienced and knowledgeable about the subject.

Len
 
Len, thanks and that has occurred to me. I'm holding off if I decide I can tackle the job with all the other things going on. I'm not purchasing anything until I have a deposit and firm commitment. I did some "research" on the bolt action and found that I can get two blanks from the standard five inch blank. I won't work with antler for this, maybe one pen. It would take a herd of deer to make 40-50 pens plus I'm not excited about the odor from turning it.
 
Adding- I won't have time for this request. Have too many things going on in life. I'll call the lady today and get some particulars. If anyone would be interested, send a PM and I'll forward the information to you.
 
Got too much going on- writing and photography are a "second" career, specifically outdoors. Gives me an excuse to go hunting and fishing; spending time with the grandkids, church, etc. I'll be calling the lady, telling her of my decision and pass along any information to someone who will willing to take in the order.
 
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