Imprinting or engraving ebonite?

[jrista]

I've been looking around at the kinds of pens older classic pen manufacturers used to make. Largely for inspiration. I've developed a number of ideas for how to craft some of my own pens. I did come across an interesting pen from Conway Stewart (honestly not sure if this is a "classic" or a newer model, as I know the company was revived by a modern owner), regardless, its an interesting pen:

This is apparently an ebonite pen, and the cap and body have some kind of either engraving, or maybe an imprint? I suspect its an engraving... I actually have picked up some Conway ebonite blanks. I was thinking I'd hold onto them until I got into bespoke pen crafting, which is something I'd like to do, I just don't have enough time these days to really get into it properly (not to mention, I'll need a metal lathe to get into it anyway.)

Still, I have some other ebonite blanks as well, and would like to maybe try something like this on some of them with more standard pen kits. Anyone have any ideas here, whether this is engraving, or whether its an imprint? It never seemed to me like ebonite was soft enough for an imprint, however, that is kind of what the above looks like. This particular example has bi-directional patterns, arrayed as diamonds, or squares, of alternating angles. I've found other Conway ebonite pens that had simpler patterns, such as just some wavy lines down the length of the blank, or just diagonally around the blank, etc. If I tried this, I'd certainly start with simpler patterns (and also, on cheaper blanks to start with, such as wood, to get some practice in before I tried on any kind of rare and/or expensive material.)

 

[duncsuss]

Check out the entry for "chased" in Richard Binder's Pen Glossopedia. Follow a couple of the links to see other definitions, and compare chasing with guilloché.

 

[jrista]

Check out the entry for "chased" in Richard Binder's Pen Glossopedia. Follow a couple of the links to see other definitions, and compare chasing with guilloché.

Thank you! That was what I was looking for. Seems like chasing can be done with a laser engraver, rather than pressing the pattern in...I have a laser engraver, so I may give it a try. Chasing, though...that's the term I was looking for!

 

[duncsuss]

Thank you! That was what I was looking for. Seems like chasing can be done with a laser engraver, rather than pressing the pattern in...I have a laser engraver, so I may give it a try. Chasing, though...that's the term I was looking for!

I don't have a method to hold a closed-end barrel on my laser engraver rotary jig yet - I've had a few ideas of how I could make one but there's always something else to do; nor am I sure if the 20W LED laser unit I have is suitable for ebonite.

It's fairly certain you'll need good cross-ventilation to clear and remove the smoke (to avoid it depositing soot on the laser lens, as well as get rid of any toxins that might be flying around.)

I hope it works for you - please report back whichever way it goes.

 

[Oliver X]

I think most of those sorts of pens were traditionally engraved with the use of straight-line engines. They're essentially the linear version of a rose engine or ornamental turning lathe. It also seems most of the ones that pop up on the internet these days were at one point employed in the use of making pens and often have the pen indexing fixtures included.

 

[duncsuss]

I think most of those sorts of pens were traditionally engraved with the use of straight-line engines. They're essentially the linear version of a rose engine or ornamental turning lathe. It also seems most of the ones that pop up on the internet these days were at one point employed in the use of making pens and often have the pen indexing fixtures included.

I have a dim memory that, several years ago, one of the members here posted pix of his guilloche engraver. I remember his logo was an engrossers' script (a.k.a. copperplate) "AB" but I don't remember his name. If it comes back to me I'll post it - seeing how the engraver worked was fascinating.

Edit to add:

Link to a thread on Fountain Pen Network that discusses this subject
Link to a machine for sale with pix
Another machine for sale with pix
(If those machines are sold the links will probably break - I searched on that website for "Charles Field Engraving"

 

[duncsuss]

Found it - member is (perhaps was) RichL - here's his Youtube video showing his straight line engine in use:

 

[duncsuss]

Another from RichL

 

[jrista]

I don't have a method to hold a closed-end barrel on my laser engraver rotary jig yet - I've had a few ideas of how I could make one but there's always something else to do; nor am I sure if the 20W LED laser unit I have is suitable for ebonite.

It's fairly certain you'll need good cross-ventilation to clear and remove the smoke (to avoid it depositing soot on the laser lens, as well as get rid of any toxins that might be flying around.)

I hope it works for you - please report back whichever way it goes.

I picked up this rotary jig called the Endy, IIRC, from a guy in the UK. It is all 3D printed, and it can accept any kind of adapters on both ends, and you could print your own if you wanted to. It wasn't particularly expensive. If you are looking for something that could hold a closed-end barrel, you might try to contact this guy, and see if he could create a set of 3D printed adapters for your use case. The default set of adapters that came with the jig I ordered had a couple of inverted cones, and I've used them a couple of times to engrave pens I'd already assembled. Works pretty well. I also ended up putting a little bit of a tacky putty inside one of these adapters to make sure the pen is held. I've only done this kind of engraving for caps, but its worked well.

I'll see if I can find the link to the site. I am pretty sure I still have it in the emails I had back and forth with the guy.

Good point about the ventilation. I wonder, if I could set up a little attachment for a vacuum hose...to just try and suck up any smoke and soot.

I am thinking I'm going to look for some cheaper ebonite pieces, for practice, if I go this route, before I try on any of the nicer bits (I have a number of both the black and brown Conway Stewart ebonite rods now, which I think I may hold onto until I get a chance to make some nice bespoke pens from them.)

 

[jrista]

I think most of those sorts of pens were traditionally engraved with the use of straight-line engines. They're essentially the linear version of a rose engine or ornamental turning lathe. It also seems most of the ones that pop up on the internet these days were at one point employed in the use of making pens and often have the pen indexing fixtures included.

Very interesting! looked up straight-line engine and rose engine. Amazing devices. Would be great to try one of those out at some point. I think to start, I'll try with my laser engraver, but, these machines are almost like works of art themselves the way they were designed. Would love to own one at some point.

 

[jrista]

I have a dim memory that, several years ago, one of the members here posted pix of his guilloche engraver. I remember his logo was an engrossers' script (a.k.a. copperplate) "AB" but I don't remember his name. If it comes back to me I'll post it - seeing how the engraver worked was fascinating.

Edit to add:

Link to a thread on Fountain Pen Network that discusses this subject
Link to a machine for sale with pix
Another machine for sale with pix
(If those machines are sold the links will probably break - I searched on that website for "Charles Field Engraving"

Thank you for the references. I appreciate it! Will be checking them out shortly here.

 

[jrista]

I have a dim memory that, several years ago, one of the members here posted pix of his guilloche engraver. I remember his logo was an engrossers' script (a.k.a. copperplate) "AB" but I don't remember his name. If it comes back to me I'll post it - seeing how the engraver worked was fascinating.

Edit to add:

Link to a thread on Fountain Pen Network that discusses this subject
Link to a machine for sale with pix
Another machine for sale with pix
(If those machines are sold the links will probably break - I searched on that website for "Charles Field Engraving"

So, is Guilloche a particular style of engraving?

 

[jrista]

Another from RichL

This is really amazing. Thank you for the info!

 

[PatrickR]

The thought of laser etching ebonite is not a pleasant one. The sulfur content will make a powerful odor. I'll be interested in your results.

 

[duncsuss]

I picked up this rotary jig called the Endy, IIRC, from a guy in the UK [...] I'll see if I can find the link to the site.

Thanks! I have a starting point, the rotary jig made by Bob (Benson) Pace for the NeJe Master engraver. If I stare at it long enough I might be able to work out if a couple of additional pieces will make it closed-end compatible.

Ventilation: I've never been impressed by my efforts to "suck" away nasty gases (unless from inside a closed cabinet) - it's simply not as effective as a correctly-aimed blower and an open door/window.

Thought of something else - it might be worth googling "air assist" on one of the laser engraving forums, it's a small tube that runs down the side of the laser head and squirts an air stream directly at the burn to keep the smoke from getting in the way of the laser beam.

I get my ebonite rods from Vermont Freehand - he has all sizes (diameters) and sells by the inch. For testing the concept, the Japanese-made stuff is much cheaper thant either of the German-made brands, but given there will be differences in the composition according to the maker it might be good to repeat the test on the actual material you're making the pen from before turning it down to size - just don't burn so deep that you can't turn it away as you make the pen itself.

 

[jrista]

Thanks! I have a starting point, the rotary jig made by Bob (Benson) Pace for the NeJe Master engraver. If I stare at it long enough I might be able to work out if a couple of additional pieces will make it closed-end compatible.

Ventilation: I've never been impressed by my efforts to "suck" away nasty gases (unless from inside a closed cabinet) - it's simply not as effective as a correctly-aimed blower and an open door/window.

Thought of something else - it might be worth googling "air assist" on one of the laser engraving forums, it's a small tube that runs down the side of the laser head and squirts an air stream directly at the burn to keep the smoke from getting in the way of the laser beam.

I get my ebonite rods from Vermont Freehand - he has all sizes (diameters) and sells by the inch. For testing the concept, the Japanese-made stuff is much cheaper thant either of the German-made brands, but given there will be differences in the composition according to the maker it might be good to repeat the test on the actual material you're making the pen from before turning it down to size - just don't burn so deep that you can't turn it away as you make the pen itself.

Here it is:

Endy150 for Neje and Ortur Master Laser Engravers – Crossgates Crafts

I did a lot of research before I bought this one. There are a lot of designs (and even this guy, has another design that works a bit differently). For pens, and other round objects, this one, after watching probably a dozen videos, seemed to do the job better than the rest. It's worked really well so far. I've engraved a few dozen pens and it works well. The hardest part, and this would be true with any rotary, is getting the pulleys configured right for the given diameter of object. That can be tricky.

I'll check out air assist. I've also thought, I may just wait till its warmer, and set up the engraver outside. I built myself a new deck last year, which is mostly why I haven't been turning (the deck project, after I rejected the $50,000+ price tags contractors were giving me, took me months between planning, learning how to build it, and then actually building it. Its actually still not quite done, still have some wiring for the deck lighting, and then a bit more work to get the railings up.) The deck will be done early spring, and I'll have a place to do the engraving outside. I could just set up a fan to blow across the setup out there.

Regarding Vermont Freehand, that's actually been my go-to so far, too! He has some unique materials, including bakelite rods (which was what I was originally looking for when I found his store.) I actually purchased some of his colored ebonite rods a while ago. Man, I still have to use those....last year was a real flop for me from a turning standpoint...