I think I'm done with Paypal

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jleiwig

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Joined
Jan 10, 2007
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1,860
Location
Monroe, Ohio, USA.
I sold a few things on Ebay this past week. A book and a 4 Iron golf club sold. I received the payment for the book no problem, but Paypal has put a "hold" on my funds for the golf club and will only release them after I have provided proof that the item has shipped or the seller leaves me positive feedback. This has never happened to me, and apparently according to paypal only happened because I don't sell enough to make me look less than suspicious?

That's a great way to turn away customers. So now I have to come out of pocket to ship this golf club which will be close to 20 bucks because thy put a hold on this payment.

Does anyone know a paypal alternative that works?
 
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Hey Justin ~ If you find one, let me know!! They are presently holding my "165.00" hostage until I can verify my account...............:mad:

So I have to link a bank account to them in order to get to my money.....Oh yeah, they automatically took their cut of payments received! NICE!:mad:
 
danroggensee said:
Justin tey to pay for you shipping through paypal and print your lable online.

dan
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I know, I'm sure they get a cut through the shippers, and this is their way of insuring that, but it's only $25, and at this stage in the game if $25 bucks breaks me, then I'm in more trouble than just Paypal.

I'll ship it on my own just to stick it to the man in my own little way. :biggrin:
 
They took these steps on paypal and ebay to help protect both parties involved. From what I've heard they have started doing this most all ebay paypal transactions.

If you buy something on ebay.......seller gets money in account asap.... then closes acct money is poof gone, you never recieve item.. it would be much harder for them to recover your money than putting hold on acct until proof of shipping.

I actually prefer dealing with it this way.

James
 
Phunky_2003 said:
If you buy something on ebay.......seller gets money in account asap....
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Actually, that's not quite true. PAYPAL gets the money right away. You just
get a notice that the item has been paid and it is applied to your account.
When you transfer funds from Paypal to your checking account, they hold it
for another 3-4 days. (Electronic fund transfers are instantaneous) So they
are floating your money and collecting the interest for a few days and if
there is a problem, they just don't complete the transfer.

I think anyone with access to your checking account to make a deposit
can retract the deposit, too.
 
Phunky_2003 said:
They took these steps on paypal and ebay to help protect both parties involved. From what I've heard they have started doing this most all ebay paypal transactions.

If you buy something on ebay.......seller gets money in account asap.... then closes acct money is poof gone, you never recieve item.. it would be much harder for them to recover your money than putting hold on acct until proof of shipping.

I actually prefer dealing with it this way.

James
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I could see that being a big deal for a large sum of money, but $25 bucks? Seriously?
 
NewLondon


That is true for transferring to your checking account. I myself have a business paypal card. If you were to send money to me, I get it as soon as you send it applied to the card and have instant access to it. I've never transferred to my checking account.

Justin,

To some people, especially in todays economy, 25 bucks maybe alot of money to others.

I was just saying, I'd rather deal with them for the protection and services they offer.

James
 
I sold an item on ebay and settled through PayPal. Fourteen days after the sale PayPal came back and debited my account. I never got the money back. My mistake was not making sure the address was verified by PayPal, otherwise they would have guaranteed the sale. I still use PayPal, but much wiser than before. I use PayPal credit card to purchase pen parts and then when I sell I ask the purchaser to credit my pay pal account to bring the balance back down.
 
DurocShark said:
If you haven't been there yet: www.paypalsucks.com

And this service is getting some good reviews from hardcore ebayin' friends of mine: http://www.merchantinc.com/
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Phunky_2003 said:
They took these steps on paypal and ebay to help protect both parties involved. From what I've heard they have started doing this most all ebay paypal transactions.

If you buy something on ebay.......seller gets money in account asap.... then closes acct money is poof gone, you never recieve item.. it would be much harder for them to recover your money than putting hold on acct until proof of shipping.

I actually prefer dealing with it this way.

James
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Interesting. I rarely use eBay and haven't used my PP for several months. However, I do like the PP service.
I looks like this 'hold' isn't much different than what hotels, car rental agencies and others do with credit and debit card purchases.
Businesses have to protect themselves or they will go bust. Sadly, the public cannot be trusted. (work as a debt collector as I did for several years) Unfortunately, those of us who conduct honest business transactions get stuck in the vortex. We are simply fodder for the money mill.
 
jleiwig said:
I know, I'm sure they get a cut through the shippers, and this is their way of insuring that, but it's only $25, and at this stage in the game if $25 bucks breaks me, then I'm in more trouble than just Paypal.

I'll ship it on my own just to stick it to the man in my own little way. :biggrin:
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Seems like you are only sticking it to yourself. If you shipped it through Paypal, you would benefit from slightly cheaper shipping charges and free delivery notification. Also, they might count this as 'proof that the item was shipped' and release your funds quicker.
 
Jgrden said:
I sold an item on ebay and settled through PayPal. Fourteen days after the sale PayPal came back and debited my account. I never got the money back. My mistake was not making sure the address was verified by PayPal, otherwise they would have guaranteed the sale. I still use PayPal, but much wiser than before. I use PayPal credit card to purchase pen parts and then when I sell I ask the purchaser to credit my pay pal account to bring the balance back down.
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To me, this is a little disturbing. If the sale was finalized and settled, how do they have the authority to take the money away from you the seller, regardless of whether the address was verified? They shouldn't be able to just take the money out.
 
In all actuality what they are doing is holding on to that money to make interest off of it. The minimum that they get to hold it is however long it takes to ship the item, at maximum it would be whenever their arbitrary date is set. They may claim it's for buyer/seller protection, but they aren't fooling anyone. If they held a million dollars worth of peoples money for 3 weeks, that's three weeks of compounding interest that they get to keep for themselves, plus all the miscellaneous fees they collect for doing business. I'm certain that this new hold policy adds up to quite a nice sum.

Seems like you are only sticking it to yourself. If you shipped it through Paypal, you would benefit from slightly cheaper shipping charges and free delivery notification. Also, they might count this as 'proof that the item was shipped' and release your funds quicker.
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I get free tracking anyway through fedex, and it's not any cheaper through paypal. They charge the same amount, and pocket whatever discount the shippers give to them.

That's the rub. If I shipped a book priority mail for 4.95, it costs me 4.95 through paypal, but I'm sure they are probably only paying the USPS 3.50 or so based on the latest discounts I've seen for major clients.
 
babyblues said:
To me, this is a little disturbing. If the sale was finalized and settled, how do they have the authority to take the money away from you the seller, regardless of whether the address was verified? They shouldn't be able to just take the money out.
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Read the 37 pages of their terms of service agreement. They can and will do whatever they want to your account. If they deem anything suspicious, they will close your account and hold your money for 180 days before you can think about getting it. Again, they get free interest off of your money for 6 months.
 
jleiwig said:
In all actuality what they are doing is holding on to that money to make interest off of it. The minimum that they get to hold it is however long it takes to ship the item, at maximum it would be whenever their arbitrary date is set. They may claim it's for buyer/seller protection, but they aren't fooling anyone. If they held a million dollars worth of peoples money for 3 weeks, that's three weeks of compounding interest that they get to keep for themselves, plus all the miscellaneous fees they collect for doing business. I'm certain that this new hold policy adds up to quite a nice sum.

I get free tracking anyway through fedex, and it's not any cheaper through paypal. They charge the same amount, and pocket whatever discount the shippers give to them.

That's the rub. If I shipped a book priority mail for 4.95, it costs me 4.95 through paypal, but I'm sure they are probably only paying the USPS 3.50 or so based on the latest discounts I've seen for major clients.
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I wonder if this is also an attempt to give people more incentive to use shipping through PP. If the seller doesn't get the money until confirmation of shipment, than they're going to have to pay out of pocket for shipping until PP decides that the planets have sufficiently aligned so they can "release" the money. So, as far as shipping goes, it doesn't matter if you use PP to pay for shipping or go straight to the Post Office. However, it would seem like confirming shipment would be easier and quicker if you used PP.

I guess if I was one of those people who got screwed over by a seller, I might feel differently, but the Ebay/Paypal monster just seems to get more brazen in its attempts to find ways to make more money. I think you're right. Protecting the buyer/seller is just a marketing ploy. I can definitely see how sending the merchandise on its way and waiting to see if PP deems you worthy of receipt of YOUR money would make you feel uneasy. Who's there to protect you from Paypal in the event that they make a mistake and you get screwed over? I guess the only alternative is to use another service. Which stinks because Paypal is so widely accepted. It's a shame how success ruins every good thing.
 
Wifey had a seller contact her yesterday. Seems paypal is holding the money until shippment is confirmed and feedback is left by Wifey for a purse she bought on ebay. The seller was asking if she could go ahead and leave feedback so that paypal will release the funds. :eek: Give feedback before she's even seen the purse? :eek: I told her no, and the reason behind the hold.
 
Pay Pal has become a huge issue for me lately.
I really need a different way to handle both receiving payments and making them.

I can no longer make payments with my pay pal account. and fees for the account are getting way out of line. as an example the leather pen case buy I am doing nets pay pal 3% when I am paid and then another 4% when I pay for the order. just for the group buy this comes to $560 in fees paid to pay pal.

So for that kind of money you would think you get the gold card, red carpet rolled out service right? nope. the person at the other end is not even able to get their money. With recent changes in pay pal I can non longer get a debit card so the only way I can pay for anything with the money I have in my account is if someone sends me a bill that can be paid from my pay pal account. They must then jumped through all of pay pals hoops to get their money.

I need an account that I can accept payments via e-mail and that I can pay for purchases from without all the hassles. Pay pal acts like any money in an account belongs to them.

I have seen some alternatives mentioned like Pro pay or Google check out. but I am not looking for just a shopping cart. I need an on line bank service.

anyone got any ideas. I really don't know where to start. I don't even use my own personal bank account and havn't for years. my wife does all that stuff.
 
Daniel said:
... With recent changes in pay pal I can non longer get a debit card so the only way I can pay for anything with the money I have in my account is if someone sends me a bill that can be paid from my pay pal account. ...
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What were the changes? My brother has a paypal debit card that he basically pays for his entire life with. It is much more convenient for him than to transfer the money into a checking account, which is what I do.
 
I too have a Paypal debit card. It's been great. Apparently they've made it more difficult to get one now though. And it won't help if your funds are held.
 
Daniel said:
I can no longer make payments with my pay pal account. and fees for the account are getting way out of line. as an example the leather pen case buy I am doing nets pay pal 3% when I am paid and then another 4% when I pay for the order. just for the group buy this comes to $560 in fees paid to pay pal.
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Wow, that's worse than credit card companies. These guys are double dipping at both ends of the stick.

Daniel said:
So for that kind of money you would think you get the gold card, red carpet rolled out service right? nope. the person at the other end is not even able to get their money. With recent changes in pay pal I can non longer get a debit card so the only way I can pay for anything with the money I have in my account is if someone sends me a bill that can be paid from my pay pal account. They must then jumped through all of pay pals hoops to get their money.
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Well, either way they're getting a cut of the money you spend from that account. If you use the debit card or are able to pay online directly from your paypal account. I guarantee you that they're getting a cut of everything you spend using their debit card. It is pretty ridiculous how everyone has to wait until paypal is satisfied that the transaction is legit and the merchandise has been received. I wonder how long until they put themselves out of business. I suppose they don't really care because they can make their money quickly and move on to the next big internet thing. That seems to be the way it works these days.
 
Jgrden said:
I sold an item on ebay and settled through PayPal. Fourteen days after the sale PayPal came back and debited my account. I never got the money back. My mistake was not making sure the address was verified by PayPal, otherwise they would have guaranteed the sale. I still use PayPal, but much wiser than before. I use PayPal credit card to purchase pen parts and then when I sell I ask the purchaser to credit my pay pal account to bring the balance back down.
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So the buyer was a fraud and collected your items from the sale (you shipped them) and then claimed you never sent them, got paypal to take back YOUR money and then never bothered to communicate with you further?

A copy of the shipping receipt and a letter to your local attorney general's office just might be in order! I'd also CC paypal on said letter and your local congressman and senator. It can be amazing what 4 stamps can get done!
 
babyblues said:
Wow, that's worse than credit card companies. These guys are double dipping at both ends of the stick.
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I don't see this as much different than any other small business.

If you take credit cards payments, you get charged a fee by the cc company for accepting them. Then if you pay bills via cc yourself, the cc company will charge the recipient the fees again.

If I'm reading Daniel right this is what's happening. He is getting charge the fee for accepting paypal, then when he pays the vendor they get charged a fee for accepting paypal. If he is "making it right" to the vendor by sending enough to cover the fee they are paying, then that's an issue between him and the vendor. I know that if I pay for a hotel via cc, they don't say "well, I'm getting charged an extra 4% for accepting cc payments, so instead of $100 can you make it $104?"

Just like on my website, its my responsibility to make sure my price is inclusive of all fees I expect to be charged. Heck, to make it easy for my customers, I even include shipping in the States in the price.

Paypal likely doesn't get a dime for purchases made on the debit card (that money goes to Mastercard), so their are really only two ways they make money. 1) transaction fees internally and 2) interest on funds they are holding.

I know the fees for AMEX transactions is 3.5% (AMEX's cut in full), I'm sure the other card companies are similar in percentage.
 
Russianwolf said:
I don't see this as much different than any other small business.

If you take credit cards payments, you get charged a fee by the cc company for accepting them. Then if you pay bills via cc yourself, the cc company will charge the recipient the fees again.

Paypal likely doesn't get a dime for purchases made on the debit card (that money goes to Mastercard), so their are really only two ways they make money. 1) transaction fees internally and 2) interest on funds they are holding.
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You know what, you're right. For two reasons.

1. Now that I think about it, I don't ever remember being charged a fee for PAYING for something with paypal. The fee comes out of proceeds when I've RECEIVED money from selling something, but never when I've paid. So, I think that the previous post was incorrect about paypal taking a cut from both the person paying and the person receiving. So, I guess they really are no different than credit card companies.

2. At present, coincidentally, I'm temping at a company that is a credit card issuer. They offer cards that are branded, in other words they have a company's logo on them, that can only be used to purchase from that company or it's affiliates. As the card issuer and funder, we charge transaction fees for each sale. That's how we make money from those cards. The company whose logo is on the cards makes money because their product is being sold. So, the branded label cards are to encourage people to buy at their stores. I imagine it's much the same with PayPal and MasterCard. MasterCard issues the PayPal debit card, which only has access to money in your PayPal account, which in turn encourages you to use PayPal to accept payments from sales so that you have money to spend with that debit card. MasterCard charges PayPal transaction fees for each sale just like any credit card company. It's likely that PayPal is passing those fees on to us, but again, that's no different than any other business.

All of that to say, you're right and I agree. :biggrin:
 
babyblues said:
So, as far as shipping goes, it doesn't matter if you use PP to pay for shipping or go straight to the Post Office. However, it would seem like confirming shipment would be easier and quicker if you used PP.
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You would think that it would be easier for paypal to verify shipment if you used paypal shipping. You would be wrong. All you're doing through paypal is buying a shipping label. The "tracking" number they give you is meaningless until the package is actually scanned by the USPS, or UPS. I ship lots with both carriers, and while UPS scanns at pickup or dropoff, USPS charges extra for that, and the first record of the package often is not until delivery.
 
sefali said:
You would think that it would be easier for paypal to verify shipment if you used paypal shipping. You would be wrong. All you're doing through paypal is buying a shipping label. The "tracking" number they give you is meaningless until the package is actually scanned by the USPS, or UPS. I ship lots with both carriers, and while UPS scanns at pickup or dropoff, USPS charges extra for that, and the first record of the package often is not until delivery.
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Delivery is the key. If you've purchased a shipping label through PayPal, they have a record of that tracking number. They have access to that stuff and should be able to see when the package was delivered and promptly release your money.
 
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