I am not a robot

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Defenestrar

Defenestrar

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
7
Location
USA - Pacific Northwest
Hello world

I've turned wood for a number of years (purely as a hobbyist) and I happened to be chatting with some friends who are fountain pen enthusiasts. I enjoy making kit pens as fun gifts, but they turned (pun intended) me on to the idea of "kitless" simply to take advantage of the higher quality nib options that they prefer. That means I need some information about tap and die sizes for common parts (like Jowo and Bock). Searching that up is how I found your forum. I'll be heading over to the resource page to find that info (I'll probably start looking for tooling for #6 Jowo as that seems to be very common) - particularly info for the section interface to the barrel and also try and find if there's any standard cap/barrel thread sizing.

More generally, I suppose the two burning questions I have about pen turning are:
  • Will I ever reach a point when I have all the turning tools and accessories that I want?
  • What in the world do I do when I give a friend a pen and after a few minutes they get glassy eyed when I'm explaining all the intricate details about the wood, finish, hardware, etc…? I'm sure they can't be bored. How could anyone get bored listening to someone talk about hand made pens? Am I accidentally handing them a gift with allergens attached? It's weird - eventually it happens to all of them.
 
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Well if you are not a robot then do you have a name we can call you?? Nothing in your bio. Pen turning of any kind can cost as much as you make it. Tools for all aspects of the hobby can vary including type of lathes. Good luck as you sort through things. Welcome from NJ.

John T.
 
Defenestrar said:
Hello world

I've turned wood for a number of years (purely as a hobbyist) and I happened to be chatting with some friends who are fountain pen enthusiasts. I enjoy making kit pens as fun gifts, but they turned (pun intended) me on to the idea of "kitless" simply to take advantage of the higher quality nib options that they prefer. That means I need some information about tap and die sizes for common parts (like Jowo and Bock). Searching that up is how I found your forum. I'll be heading over to the resource page to find that info (I'll probably start looking for tooling for #6 Jowo as that seems to be very common) - particularly info for the section interface to the barrel and also try and find if there's any standard cap/barrel thread sizing.

More generally, I suppose the two burning questions I have about pen turning are:
  • Will I ever reach a point when I have all the turning tools and accessories that I want?
  • What in the world do I do when I give a friend a pen and after a few minutes they get glassy eyed when I'm explaining all the intricate details about the wood, finish, hardware, etc…? I'm sure they can't be bored. How could anyone get bored listening to someone talk about hand made pens? Am I accidentally handing them a gift with allergens attached? It's weird - eventually it happens to all of them.
Click to expand...
2 answers for your 2 burning questions:
a. No
b. No there's nothing wrong with them, same thing happens to me and i suppose to many others in this forum. I try not to explain many things to them and only talk when asked. It works sometimes.
Cheers and wellcome.
 
• Will I ever reach a point when I have all the turning tools and accessories that I want?
Click to expand...

That depends on you. Probably at some point you may reach a saturation point where your skills are to the point that you know what you want to do with what you already have, or you know how to make your own tools. My turning tool of choice is a HHS scraper with its own shape that I made to fit me and how I do things. Some people say the best tool for turning round and smooth is a skew but I haven't seen any work that so far that produces a finer / smooth finish than my customized scraper does for me.

And look at post # 17 on the thread below. John Albert discusses the choice of threads he chose and why. He also mentioned the repercussions of changes in the thread for that particular pen. John makes his own parts and clips.

Silver overlay fountain pen

I had the itch to make a pen with an early 20th century skyscraper-ish motif. I used Ultem resin to construct the pen, and then carved the clip and overlay from wax, and cast them in silver. Over all length is about 5.25” capped, and the cap threads are 13mm diameter. It uses a jowo #6 nib.
www.penturners.org

It can be all about the tools, or it can be about the skill and knowledge. That said, and you have already figured this out - fountain pens will bring in double the price and more - over ball/roller point pens, BUT fountain pen making also requires a higher consistent skill level from the maker/seller than most ball point pen buyers have. Technical Knowledge also is a necessity as you have found out.
 
Welcome.
1. Depends on what you want to do in the future. I found I only use 2-3 tools for pen turning: roughing gouge, skew, Bedan tool (made by me).
2. I just give the pen to people and may mention the wood, if used, as they will ask, "What kind of wood is that?"
 
Defenestrar said:
  • Will I ever reach a point when I have all the turning tools and accessories that I want?
  • What in the world do I do when I give a friend a pen and after a few minutes they get glassy eyed when I'm explaining all the intricate details about the wood, finish, hardware, etc…? I'm sure they can't be bored. How could anyone get bored listening to someone talk about hand made pens? Am I accidentally handing them a gift with allergens attached? It's weird - eventually it happens to all of them.
Click to expand...

The issue regarding tools and tooling is complicated. I like to think of it as a spectrum. At one end are the turners who get by with the absolute minimum tools required for the job they have to do. In theory, you could turn pens with only one tool (probably either a scraper or a skew), but most people have more than that. So the middle of the spectrum is where the turner adds more tools for the sake of convenience, but stops when he or she reaches the point where all immediate needs are met. But then there are those who just like tools. and the fact is that the kind of people who find pen turning fun are also likely to be the kind of people who like tools - the tool junkies.

As to the issue of how people react to pens - another spectrum. There are folks who are perfectly happy with a giveaway ball point with advertising imprinted on the side - all they care about is making marks on paper. As you move up the spectrum, you eventually get to the folks who prefer fountain pens. Entry-level fountain pen uses typically are attracted to the ease of writing and the quality of the line laid down on the paper, but as you move further up the spectrum you encounter the folks who get excited by the broad choice of ink colors and characteristics. At some point along the way, you find the people who like the tactile feel and craftsmanship of hand-made pens - with some preferring wood, and others preferring some kind of plastic.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
"Will I ever reach a point when I have all the turning tools and accessories that I want?"

There is no finish line.
 
Not a comment about tools but more directed at the higher quality nibs they prefer. You are able to replace kit pen nibs for actual Jowo manufactured nibs. I have even put a gold plated Jowo nib on a the full size majestic kit. Also, the Shakespeare British made kits use a bock nib.
 
Defenestrar said:
More generally, I suppose the two burning questions I have about pen turning are:
  • Will I ever reach a point when I have all the turning tools and accessories that I want?
  • What in the world do I do when I give a friend a pen and after a few minutes they get glassy eyed when I'm explaining all the intricate details about the wood, finish, hardware, etc…? I'm sure they can't be bored. How could anyone get bored listening to someone talk about hand made pens? Am I accidentally handing them a gift with allergens attached? It's weird - eventually it happens to all of them.
Click to expand...

* I think you end up with the tools you NEED in the end, at the very least. There is a right tool for every job, and the more skilled you get with anything, the more likely you are to find you want a particular tool for a particular job. I recently picked up a box scraper from Carter & Son...wasn't a tool that I even knew existed, but when I saw it, I knew I NEEDED it, as I have always struggled to turn those narrow but tall boxes with any of the tools I currently have. I have the EWT square roughing tool, which I thought would make pretty short work of boxes, but even that has its limits. The box scraper is a dream tool for making those simple boxes!! Sometimes, you just never know until you find that next tool that will help you solve a problem you have... Maybe think of tool acquisition as a journey of discovery, the kind of journey that never ends. ;)

* Instead of going into all the details you, as a woodworker, love about making pens...maybe share something more about the stories and/or history of the materials that make up your pen. For example, I am making a Euro twist pen for a friend and coworker... I was describing the woods and the kit options to him, but he was much more interested in the more abstract aspects of the pen, rather than the details. He became particularly interested when I told him that it was a "Designer" pen, a classic original pen design (I had found a history page on that, but now I can no longer find it). The idea of having a custom made "Designer" pen just tickled his fancy more than just knowing it was a "custom" pen.
 
Woodchipper said:
Welcome.
1. Depends on what you want to do in the future. I found I only use 2-3 tools for pen turning: roughing gouge, skew, Bedan tool (made by me).
2. I just give the pen to people and may mention the wood, if used, as they will ask, "What kind of wood is that?"
Click to expand...
can you please show your bedan tool? is it like an ordinary parting tool but not v shaped at the end and also thinner?
 
MedWoodWorx said:
Did i offended you somehow? You mean is a different shape or you just don't want to show it?
Click to expand...

@MedWoodWorx
Your post #12 may have been "answered" by the wrong person (if it was answered at all). . Consequently, your post #14 is misdirected also.

Things can get confusing here with the sequencing of posts sometimes not corresponding to what we are thinking in our own minds.
 
Thanks for the welcome everyone. I just need to decide on thread sizes for the section and cap for my first kitless (size 6 nib/feed). Mike Redburn's guide has been extremely helpful (and exactly the sort of resource I made an account for) and M12x0.75 will probably be what I pick for a cap. I'm leaning toward M10x0.75 instead of M9x0.75 for the section since I intend to use unstabilized wood instead of metal/resin. But I also like the thought that the M9 might give sleeker options for grip design in the future. Choices, choices.
 
I was worried about using beeswax on a pen or a product that uses beeswax incase someone had a honey allergy. I don't know if honey allergies transfer to beeswax, but I just don't use it anymore.
 
Man Alive ! ! . . This thread has . . .

. . . covered a lot of ground beyond a simple personal introduction ! ! ! . . .

( . . . by a new member who joined IAP just yesterday ! )
 
magpens said:
Man Alive ! ! . . This thread has . . .

. . . covered a lot of ground beyond a simple personal introduction ! ! ! . . .

( . . . by a new member who joined IAP just yesterday ! )
Click to expand...
Yes and we still do not know their name. But we know he or she is from somewhere in the USA😀😀😀
 
MedWoodWorx said:
Did i offended you somehow? You mean is a different shape or you just don't want to show it?
Click to expand...
Not at all . Just answered the question you posed . Don't have an answer for the second one .

Not sure how the shape bit got drawn into it??
 
Defenestrar said:
II'll work on my profile in a bit. For now I'd prefer to stick with just a username although maybe that will change as I get to know the community better.
Click to expand...
Do what you want but no one will call you by that. A first name can not hurt even if you use an alias.
 
jttheclockman said:
Do what you want but no one will call you by that. A first name can not hurt even if you use an alias.
Click to expand...
In all do respects... Many, many, many IAP members have availed themselves for years of anonymous names and profiles. I for one will respect their desires.

defenestrar... I wish you well in your IAP encounter.
 
mark james said:
In all do respects... Many, many, many IAP members have availed themselves for years of anonymous names and profiles. I for one will respect their desires.

defenestrar... I wish you well in your IAP encounter.
Click to expand...
In all due respect it is always nice to call someone by at least their first name. Like I said make up an alias. I do not even know how to pronounce his sign-on name. It is suppose to be a family site. Just saying I do not care. Do as you wish. I did not think it was a big deal to ask.

By the way Mark look at his intro. When he says he or she is not a robot that is how we got here.
It is funny I researched this. Translation.

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/spanish-english/defenestrar
 
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"Defenestration" is a rather esoteric word for throwing something out the window. The defenestrar variant pulls it back to romance (i.e. Latin) roots as an active verb. It's a nickname I've used on the 'net since email used to be a thing you went to the public library's modem bank for through (naturally an exclusively text interface). "Def" for short is great (pronounced like you'd describe someone who doesn't wear hearing protection in the shop). Fortunately I've never had a rapid unscheduled disassembly from my Shopsmith Mark V that defenestrated itself (been close, but no glass replacement yet).

"I'm not a robot" is a roundabout way of expressing my appreciation for the human vetting of the membership application. I've got a strange sense of humor that is founded on being a father, engineer, and safety professional.

I've been searching through the forums and library (great stuff!) but am still having a little bit of a hard time deciding which tooling setup to pursue for my first kitless. It's purely anecdotal based on web searches and such, but it seems to me that Jowo #6 is one of the most common nib types (so M7.5x0.5) but that seems to lead to pretty fat pens rather quickly based on reasonable wall thicknesses for all wood construction. (Probably M10x0.75 for the section and then what? M14x1 for the cap? That just seems big. Is that normal for fountains without metal sleeves?
 
Defenestrar said:
"Defenestration" is a rather esoteric word for throwing something out the window. The defenestrar variant pulls it back to romance (i.e. Latin) roots as an active verb. It's a nickname I've used on the 'net since email used to be a thing you went to the public library's modem bank for through (naturally an exclusively text interface). "Def" for short is great (pronounced like you'd describe someone who doesn't wear hearing protection in the shop). Fortunately I've never had a rapid unscheduled disassembly from my Shopsmith Mark V that defenestrated itself (been close, but no glass replacement yet).

"I'm not a robot" is a roundabout way of expressing my appreciation for the human vetting of the membership application. I've got a strange sense of humor that is founded on being a father, engineer, and safety professional.

I've been searching through the forums and library (great stuff!) but am still having a little bit of a hard time deciding which tooling setup to pursue for my first kitless. It's purely anecdotal based on web searches and such, but it seems to me that Jowo #6 is one of the most common nib types (so M7.5x0.5) but that seems to lead to pretty fat pens rather quickly based on reasonable wall thicknesses for all wood construction. (Probably M10x0.75 for the section and then what? M14x1 for the cap? That just seems big. Is that normal for fountains without metal sleeves?
Click to expand...
lovely word to describe so many things. What about a defenestrator? could be a helping instrument of the process.
Why don't you move the question to the appropriate sub-forum (kitless i think)? there are more chances to get more answers to your questions.
Cheers
 
@Defenestrar
I like the name "Defenestrar" !

I at first regarded it as a noun . . . somewhat like "registrar" . . . and attached the meaning of "someone who throws things out the window".

As a long-time student of romance languages, I immediately recognized the Latin root "fenestra", and that adds to the charm ! !

So . . . thanks for your explanations in Post #27, Def . . . if you don't mind my calling you that !

Will now go and check out the very recent addition to your Profile.
 
I like originality. I had learned that defenestrate means: to throw out of the window (and that it has no opposite). It did hear it used once in some movie with two Romans arguing with earchother. I went with TonyL because me typing stinks!

Woops. I should have read the early posts.
 
Welcome Def! Your search for what tooling to pursue is interesting. Keep us posted on what and why you chose that route, AND if it worked out. Mostly it is just a deep deep money pit hole! 😁
 
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