How much to charge?

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mavrick1903

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
34
Location
Stoughton, Wi, USA.
Looks like I might start selling to coworkers. a few have expressed interest. I'm wondering what y'all charge? right now, I'm just doing a few euro's, mostly Cigars and slims with my center ring so the shape is fuller. some exotic woods like Cocobolo, Bubinga, Lignum Vitae, and some stablized blanks. I'd love an example of a break down, or if you do a % mark up or something.

For instance, do you charge X depending on wood, X for style/finish etc?

any help would be appreiceated, I want to be kind and fair, to them, but to me as well.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
I currently charge 3x my cost for retail and 2x for wholesale. Cost is pen kit, blank, finish, electricity, supplies, and time. Currently I have been selling a few pens, (co-workers, car salesman, finance officer, and two lawyers), a couple of styles/wood I cannot keep in stock is the amboyna burl other than the one FP, IPE, and lace wood pens. the most popular style for me has been the Sierra with the El Grande a close second, and cannot give away the European style Deco pens. As far as finish Chrome is first, Gold is second(with the usual warnings), and TiGold third, Brite Copper is also a fast seller for me. I sell the slimline, eurodeco, filigrees, churchhill, el grandes so far.
 
IMHO, selling to friends and coworkers is different than selling to general public, simply because you want to be fair and gentle as you said. This is how I do it, and shouldn't be considered gospel, "the standard" or any of those other things--just my way. Unless a wood or material is substantially more costly, it doesn't enter into the equation. Having said that, a pen from a 50 cent maple blank WILL be less costly than one from a $7.00 Amboyna burl one. Style of pen determines a certain amount difference, both because of the cost of the kit, and the time it takes to make it: slimline is less than a euro, which is less than a Sierra or cigar, which is less than a Baron, etc. Frills raise cost: labor-intensive finishes, inlays (celtic knot, segments, etc.) Finally, who you are selling to has bearing--if its a close friend (lower price) or merely an acquaintance (slightly higher cost). Consider also that you used sandpaper, CA, and whatever else, that you have a bit invested in your lathe, drill press, and whatever else (not to mention maintenance expenses) Be fair to friends, for sure--but be fair to yourself, as well. Hope this helps.
 
I have a rule of thumb like others like maybe 4x or 3x. It always depends on who I sell to. My first attempts at price came from online sites. From an average of those sites I chose my basic price. I usually quote 4x. That would be for basic exotics. Burls, synthetics and other special materials and extra labor of course adds to my price. Bottom line is you have to do what is fair to yourself and you might also hears others say please don't undercut the price others charge just to be fair to the rest of us.
 
Originally posted by Russb
<br />... Bottom line is you have to do what is fair to yourself and you might also hears others say please don't undercut the price others charge just to be fair to the rest of us.
Click to expand...

That's a great reason to ask the question as well, to not undercut, and thus sabotage fellow turners. I'm not great with the CA finishes yet, so I've been using more "traditional" finishes, but they do look great.

So, if I said $40 for a Cigar with exotic wood (as in, not straight grained domestic wood) that would be a fair price?
 
Like others, I have different prices depending on if you are Friend, Family, Co-Worker, or Joe Public.
Your pens are worth what YOU feel they are worth. These are One of a Kind, Hand-Made, writing instruments.
Think about it this way, at Chili's, a side dish of Green Beans with Almonds might cost you $2.95, but at a high end Steak House, Green Beans Almondine will cost you $9.95.... Don't sell yourself short.
 
You can have all kinds of formulas, but formulas do not sell product. They look good on paper the they leave out one very important factor, the buyer and thier williness to pay. What prices work in one geographical area may very well not work in another. Back when I began airbrushing years ago, I applied the formulas I learned in my business classes. The prices sure looked good to me but people were just not willing to pay them. So I did a little testing, lowered prices and shirts began selling. At the time I was doing t-shirts. I had to work a little more each day but in the end, the profit from selling 50 shirts at $15 each was more appealing than what I gleaned from only selling 30 of the same shirts at a $20 per profit. And then, in some areas of the Midwest I could raise the price a percentage and in in others I had to lower it. I would rather sell within a range they are willing to pay (within a reasonable profit/loss range) than not sell at all. I do my pens the same way and am happy but then I am not attempting to make a living doing pens.

Also, you may like doing high end pens but the market may only want mid or low end kits. Again, I would rather sell 40 slims at $15 each than sell a couple high end pens for $150-$200 per. But I will present a range from low to high. Also, where and how you present your wares will make a difference also. Craft shows , as reasoned, should bring higher prices than a flea market. Also, a craft show in the suburbs should bring better prices than one in a rural venue. Presentation can make or break a sale. In certain areas, if your presentation looks higg dollar even before the cutomer bellies up to the bar, they will aviod you if they are looking for medium to low end items. If it looks like Cicero P. Sweeny's (actual name of a tool seller I visit at a flea market!!) Bargins and Deals, more than likely those high end kits will gather dust.

Lastly, speaking of shows, if antoher seller of such goods are there, you may want to keep prices competitive in the beginning but if sales seem slow due to pricing, lower them a little till sales pick up. You can always lower them at a show and make people happy. Raising them at a show doesnt make for many happy people. Other sellers of same product make take offense if you begin to lower your prices and sales pick up. They may very well come and say something to you!!!

And as for having different prices for different people, I sure ope you will be able to keep track of all the various ranges if you decide to do so, Then heaven forbid one who you sold a pen to for $50 find out you sold the same pen to someone else for $40. Good way to get a bad rep. I either sell them for the same price to everyone or else I give them to someone I want to give a break to. I typically glean enough future sales off the freebie to cover thier costs. Besides, a freebie or two at the right show and to the right people can yield nice rewards!!

When starting a new business, market study is imparrative. If you plan on doing shows, visit them once or twice prior to setting up shop. Get to know some of the other vendors and see what the show is capable of. Do your home work.
 
I started out using the 3x-4x multiplier for pricing and was never really satisfied with it because some pens ended up being way too expensive for what they were - anybody want to buy a $70 Sierra? It takes me just as long to make a slimline as it does to make a Baron, actually a bit longer since I have to turn off more wood if the blanks are both 3/4" square. But using the multiplier pricing, the Baron was always way more expensive that the slimline with the same plating and wood. And as Russ asked some time back, why should a Gold Ti pen cost 50% more than the chrome version costs when the difference in kit price is only $3-4.00. The gold one isn't any harder to make. Using the multiplier is easy, but it will lead you to some very strange pricing that can be difficult to explain to an observant customer.

As far as selling to friends, I have one price list and that's it.
 
I have a spreadsheet setup that calculates the prices for me. It takes the lowest cost plating of a particular style, say Baron Rollerballs, and uses that to set the price based on the formula I use. Other platings in the same style are then adjusted by the difference in price of the kit. So in my case, the difference between a chrome baron and a platinum baron is $7.40. The price that comes out of the calculations are for basic, domestic, common woods. Anything rare, exotic, unusual, or custom (inlays, designs, etc) are adjusted accordingly. And before I get a flood of requests, I'm not looking to release my spreadsheet, so please don't ask.
 
Curious, what do most who have responded value your time at?? Or better yet, how do you come to it's valuation? If I were to base my labor on what I make at my FT job, I would be charging roughly $35 per hour. If I were to base it on what I charge for custom airbrushing it would be $75+ and hour. If I were to base it upon what I get airbrushing t-shirts it would be $120+ per hour. Pens could become quite costly at those rates.
 
To me, the time is relaxing, reducing stress from my day job. So the time doesn't factor into it for me. I simply hope that the sales of the pens makes this a self sustaining hobby. And if not, at least I'll be less stressed, broke, and have lots of pens to write with. [:D]
 
Originally posted by Draken
<br />To me, the time is relaxing, reducing stress from my day job. So the time doesn't factor into it for me. I simply hope that the sales of the pens makes this a self sustaining hobby. And if not, at least I'll be less stressed, broke, and have lots of pens to write with. [:D]
Click to expand...

That's my rule!! LOL!!! Back when I was airbrushing t-shirts full time, we were so used to calculating the profit off of each shirt, it got to the point that when I would ask my wife how much a bill was or how much clothes for the kids would cost us, or groceries, she'd reply, "XX Shirts!!"
 
I was browsing the net while on my break at work and I ran across a link to a place that sells pens. They looked like mostly CSUSA kits. I saw a rhodium Gent FP for $45 including some type of case. That's definitely lower than I would charge. The wood didn't appear to be an $8 blank but it wasn't cut from some board either. Finish looked nice... it was a nice looking pen. I also saw a segmented Cigar pen for $27. [:0]
Of the pens I've made, I've given about 1/4 to 1/3 away. Charity Auctions, friends, family. If I don't give them away, they pay the full price. One of my friends raises cattle, I wouldn't expect him to substantially discount the price of beef I buy from him, just because we're friends. Truth to tell, I might even pay a little more, just because we are friends. $500 for a 1/2 beef from him or $450 buying at some mega-mart. I'll buy from a friend.
I also value my hourly rate depending on where I'm selling. $20/hr is a great wage in some parts of this state and in others, well, you might get bye. I live in the $20/hr part.
 
Before I took pen making to a full time business. I would charge 3x all costs.
Now I have a spread sheet where I can calculate each cost of the pen.
I always use to highest price of that pen style not dicounted + Material cost + Ancillary Cost (Glue, Sanding pads, Extra) + Labor. Sum it up and multiple by my profit margin. That gives me cost. I will also add in any engraving cost + SH before my profit. I try to run at 78% Profit margin.
 
Being in business all my adult life I am 52 I have found most new folks way under charge . You can't get it if you don't ask . My average price for pens is $65.00 to $100.00 . with more work and IF I think its worth more added in I sell a plain jane cigar pen in say plain maple for $60.00 and they go up from there with a few 7mm round tops going now for $50.00 and up . DO not sell yourself short .

The one below just went a few weeks ago for $150.00 and IMO I sold it to cheap ..

ebonyeurorttgSmall.jpg
 
Originally posted by gerryr
<br /> And as Russ asked some time back, why should a Gold Ti pen cost 50% more than the chrome version costs when the difference in kit price is only $3-4.00. The gold one isn't any harder to make.
Click to expand...

Why is it that a woman's swim suit with less material costs more than one with more material??? Or a woman's short cut hair style cost more than a man's???

I know these aren't pen related, but just throwing out other examples of inconsistent pricing.
 
I agree with lots of comments that have been made on this subject. Everyone has a different formula or reasoning for charging what they do for their goods. The one thing that I was taught from a business class I took was that in a business like this one we are not the big box type shops. We are custom pen makers. If people wanted the regular stuff they would go to Walmart. When they buy from us they are buyng hand crafted items. They expect to pay more becasuse the items are one of a kind. Having been a picture framer for 3 years now I had to realize that the individual stuff I do is not stuff that the other big box companies are willing to do. And when we create a pen we become an artist. Giving the pen our personal artistic touch.

Dave
Cedar Rapids Iowa
 
Clearly, there are those in this for the money and those just wanting to get rid of accumulated pens they have made and make a few dollars to buy some more kits! And that is probably why there is such a huge difference on what folks see as a "fair price".

I have been told by fellow turners that I am selling my pens too cheap but the way I see it, the 30 minutes or so that it takes to turn a $4 blank and assemble a $10 kit does not warrant charging $100 for a pen... I don't care how much sandpaper, paper towels and CA you used in the process!

I say charge what you feel like, regardless of what others feel is proper. I doubt that my "lowball" prices are going to cut into anyones action and upset the custom, one of a kind, handmade pen market! [:D]

George
 
I wonder if a flame war will erupt over this topic (and my post below) I hope not.

Here's my formula:

cost of pen kit + shipping for the kit (pro rated shipping)
cost of wood + shipping for the wood (pro rated shipping if any)
flat materials cost (finish, etc.)of $3
labor @ $25 per hour

Example: I was commissioned to make two Churchill Fountains in Ttianium Gold plate with Desert Ironwood for colleagues at my university. Here was the breakdown for each:

Pen Kit/shipping for pen kit $20
DI and shipping for DI $8
Materials/finish $3
Labor 3 hours = $75
display box $4

Total cost for each pen $110

If this was a pen I was selling at a crafts show, I would mark it up another $50. Any more and I would feel that I would be charging more than a) the pen is legitimately worth; b) my consumer base could understand/afford; c) my conscience would allow.

Regarding undercutting the price of other pen makers.......

My pricing is not swayed by what others do - except to determine if I am too high. Frankly, I don't care if I am lower than someone else and it undercuts his business. Everyone has to sell their product for what they feel is the appropriate price.

Here is a parallel example:

In a field that is jammed with too many people, I sell custom, hand made clarinet and bass clarinet mouthpieces that are created at my home from blanks purchased nationally and internationally. Some of my mouthpieces are played by college professors, high school and college students, professional service band members, and some are played by the top clarinet and bass clarinet professionals in the world - eg. members of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra in New York, the Cincinnati Symphony, the Oregon Symphony, and a host of other major, professional orchestras. My bass clarinet mouthpiece - arguably one of the best available - costs only $165. A similar mouthpiece made by my competitors costs $275 - $485. I sell a lot of mouthpieces. My profit margin is fair, and I'm becoming well known in this field. People tell me I should charge more.......my response........I don't need to. Maybe if the demand becomes so great I have to slow it down somehow.

To discuss pens then - each maker has his own product, style, etc. Every maker has a unique approach. We may share concepts - finishes (not all are the same), pen kits, etc., but that's where the product ends being the same. Therefore, while there are people who can (and therefore should?) charge $150 for a Euro Twist Ballpoint, my cost for such a pen in similar wood and finish might be half that (depending on labor). This is a personal choice. Do I begrudge the person who can and does sell for twice what I do? Nope - more power to him! But my prices are not, and never will be, determined by being "nice" about keeping prices similar. I'm not in business to support other pen makers - I'm in business to a) make some extra $ on the side; b) use my time wisely; c) pass on a little of myself to others. The very notion of competition - that of keeping prices affordable - is that we all choose our pricing in ways that will fairly and accurately represent the product and, perhaps most importantly, sell well.

Bu - having said all of this, I really LIKE other pen makers. Does that help?[:D]

Best wishes,
Roger Garrett
 
Originally posted by Texatdurango
<br />Clearly, there are those in this for the money and those just wanting to get rid of accumulated pens they have made and make a few dollars to buy some more kits! And that is probably why there is such a huge difference on what folks see as a "fair price".

I have been told by fellow turners that I am selling my pens too cheap but the way I see it, the 30 minutes or so that it takes to turn a $4 blank and assemble a $10 kit does not warrant charging $100 for a pen... I don't care how much sandpaper, paper towels and CA you used in the process!

I say charge what you feel like, regardless of what others feel is proper. I doubt that my "lowball" prices are going to cut into anyones action and upset the custom, one of a kind, handmade pen market! [:D]

George
Click to expand...
First off, I'll confess I'm one of those who told George I thought he was pricing his work to low. I've seen his work first hand, and he does excellent work with high quality woods and kits. That said, I'd point out that there is a lot more to making a pen than just a $4 dollar blank, a $10 kit, and thirty minutes....unless you're willing to "subsidize" the process, by donating the cost of your equipment, the cost of the space it takes up, electricity to power your equipment, a variety of accessories like sharpening jigs, drill bits, center vises, end mills, time spent shopping for all this (OK, cruising the internet and local suppliers for primo examples of wood has it's own entertainment value, but I still count that as a business cost...), time spent organizing, showing your product and paying for some system/accessories for carting around or displaying your pens, absorbing the inevitable cost of blowouts and faulty assembly/hardware, and on and on. If all you're doing is looking to make enough money to buy more kits, all power to you. There is definetly an emotional payback in looking at a finished pen, and being able to say, "hot d@^n, that's purty.... and I made it! At the same time, I have no problem in looking at my <u>total</u> costs, including a decent hourly rate (and knowing that my time includes averaging in time spent purchasing, cleaning up, sharpening tools, doing the books, routine equipment maintenance, and even some of the time spent here and with other penturners learning new tips and techniques), and adding a small profit margin on top of that, knowing I'll keep investing in more and better tools as my skills and abilities continue to develop.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom