HEY Information Technology Pros!!!

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ed4copies

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
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Here's the problem - I believe the solution is an "MSAccess database" because it is the most universally used, but if you have a better answer, please share it!!!

Back to the challenge:
The IAP starts the "bash" with over 100 prizes from about 80-90 sources. Then, someone (this year Wudnhed) takes the time to allocate the prizes to the various contests (figure 15 contests - 2 to 20 prizes each). Then, the winners are established each day for trivia (2 a day). We need to keep track of the winners' screen name, real name, full mailing address, email addy, and phone number. We email this information to the prize donor. BUT, we need a way to find this information AGAIN when the multiple prize donors request a list of all who have won THEIR prizes.

I did this with an antiquated envelope system and the forum PM and email and I can tell you this is NOT the IDEAL> I believe everyone will get their prizes, but I have asked some winners for the same information three times now. EVERYONE has been VERY cooperative. BUT, this is NOT efficient.

There must be a way that I could type in a vendor and get all their recipients' complete info. Or, I could make an excel spreadsheet for each major donor (donated more than 3 prizes) at the end of the month, just so they can check against what they shipped.

So, that's the outline of what I would like. We have ten months to develop a solution.

How much of a PIA is this???

Thanks
 
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You're absolutly correct...

... a database system would be the best mechanism for this. PM me if you are interested in having one built. I do exactly this for a living.
 
A database would work, but Ms Access is pretty far from universal. For one, it only has the potential of being installed on Windows computers. :biggrin:

You *can* do this with a spreadheet. Put all the relevant info into the spreadsheet, then perform sorts on particular columns while preserving the record structure. I know Excel can do this, and I'm pretty sure Numbers (Apple) and OpenOffice Calc (all platforms) can as well. Luckily, pretty much everything reads the Excel file format too in case you want to share the spreadsheet with someone.
 
pipecrafter said:
A database would work, but Ms Access is pretty far from universal. For one, it only has the potential of being installed on Windows computers. :biggrin:

You *can* do this with a spreadheet. Put all the relevant info into the spreadsheet, then perform sorts on particular columns while preserving the record structure. I know Excel can do this, and I'm pretty sure Numbers (Apple) and OpenOffice Calc (all platforms) can as well. Luckily, pretty much everything reads the Excel file format too in case you want to share the spreadsheet with someone.
Click to expand...


Not universal, will only work on Windows......geee, when I last checked Microsoft has about 90% Market Share. Far from being a nich product and any reports generated can be formatted in different ways depending on the needs of the ones using it.

While you could probably put it all in a 'flat file' system like Excel, it would be far more robust in a 'real' database like Access.

I'd go with Access as a better choice to do everything that is needed for tracking the doners, winners and other information to make it all work.


Barney
 
Access can work wonders but does have a steep learning curve. Once it is set up and someone shows you how to make entries and delete entries it is a breeze. Excel can do pretty much the same thing and all the info is readily available without the background processes that Access does. It all depends on what you are willing to put into. If jimbob91577 is willing then go with that otherwise go with excel.
 
titan2 said:
Not universal, will only work on Windows......geee, when I last checked Microsoft has about 90% Market Share. Far from being a nich product and any reports generated can be formatted in different ways depending on the needs of the ones using it.

While you could probably put it all in a 'flat file' system like Excel, it would be far more robust in a 'real' database like Access.

I'd go with Access as a better choice to do everything that is needed for tracking the doners, winners and other information to make it all work.


Barney
Click to expand...

Calm down Barney. Note the smiley - t'was a joke, man.

While I agree that databases are more robust (seriously, I've been doing this IT thing for 20 years) the problem is that the amount of time it takes to setup the tablespaces, generate the table relations, create the reports, and generate the output, is significantly longer than just putting it all in a spreadheet and sorting by column.

Unless, that is, you're just using one table, and sorting the table by column in order to see the data you need - in that case, it's pretty much just a spreadsheet. :wink:
 
If the Access database is made correctly, you can make use of a free Access viewer from MS that will allow others to edit the data in the database. This will allow some what of a "universal" concept that some cherish so much. I say "some what" because I think (but I could be wrong) that the viewer has to be installed on a Microsoft platform. But, it is free from MS (not a third-party vendor) and will allow others besides yourself to edit the data if you so wish. Then, they will not need to spend a million dollars to buy Access for this one purpose.
 
I use access for all my databasing needs. The nice thing is how well it sinks up with word for creating letters from that data. Access is pretty easy to setup. IF you have the program and need a form made. I can do that for you and email the file...That would take all of about 10 mins to do including the file transfer from the email.

Grub32
 
Hey, Ed. It's too bad nobody has an opinion on this to help you out!

Personally, I would place an Access data base on your server, and write some asp pages to access it and give everyone access to it to look up their own information in real time.
 
JHudson is correct - MS offers an EXE that will allow you to open and edit data in an Access MDB file. Unfortunately Access is a Windows platform product and isn't included in Office for the Mac - however if you're running Windows now and most likely will in the future, then this shouldn't be an issue.

Creating a relational database, where tables relate to other tables, tends to be the most flexible way of solving these sorts of business requirements. Building a flat table, like Kurt suggested, is another way of storing your data and will work in simple circumstances but becomes harder to manage with each column you add to your sheet/table. Consider a table that has Vendor, Product, and Customer - if you have 10 vendors who each have 10 products and 10 Customers, you instantly have 1000 possible unique records - which by itself would be daunting to sort through in a spreadsheet or flat table format.

Access, and database development for that matter, isn't rocket science but does take time to learn, just like everything else. Building simple tables and simple forms is one thing, but in my experience, building a simple form that allows a user to enter data seldom solves the problem that is sounds like Ed is trying to solve - an easy to use system that allows him to Imput and Edit data, quickly produce lists/reports showing different facets of data (Contest versus Winner, Contest versus Vendor, Winner versus Vendor, etc.), and do something with those datasets (i.e. eMail someone).

Access is a simple tool to use to solve this problem, but it is not the only tool out there. I, and the business I work for, use Access for a lot of what we do simply because everyone in the corporation has it on their computers and because it is quick and powerful to use.
 
From an availability perspective, if you use an MS Office application, people without the MS product can download Open Office FREE and use the files.

MS Word = Open Office Writer
MS Excel = Open Office Calc
MS PowerPoint = Open Office Impress
MS Access = Open Office Base
MS Paint = Open Office Paint

Just trying to save folks a few bucks where I can.
 
Aw, shucks ya'll, this is to much fish. Ed all ya need to do is get a roll of outhouse, paper, write everything down with a pencil that u need with one thjing on each sheet, then roll er back up.

See ya goat an instant scroll like book, and fer very little output. Put some brown paint on fingers and mark outside of roll, and no one will touch your records, and you always got her rite there when you need her.

After you are finished, why you get to use the roll a different way. sure beats corn-cobs. :biggrin::biggrin:
 
This is hilarious!!!!!! Great Ideas.... You should be in Washington.. oh s*#t, that might be considered a political statement.
 
I would suggest MS Access also, tables, templates, and reports are fairly straight forward. You can provide a run-time of Access free if needed. As Lou pointed out, Excel will work too. If you increase membership by a gazillion and need a real "HOG"... go Oracle LMAO.
 
Well if it was me doing it, I'd first go with an excel spreadsheet and pivot tables, a lot less work.

But, if I had the time and wanted it accessible anywhere, or to several "administrator" type people so the job isn't linked to one perosn, I'd do up a php & MySql web solution.

MSAccess used to be my database of choice, but unless I'm in a big rush & it's a job Excel can't do,PhP is my preferred environment these days.

Russell.
 
I'd vote for excel or another spreadsheet. You really have very simple requirements - no need to get involved in building a front end that will need to be maintained forever. You don't even know exactly what questions you are going to be asking over the next year or two. Why put energy into creating something in access and having to change it repeatedly until it's just right (something that doesn't last anyway).

Oh! And make sure you don't have an IT person do it for you - find a business guy who uses Excel a fair amount. They are the real wizards. IT guys always overcomplicate things - I should know, I've been one for 35 years.

Marc

Marc
 
marcruby said:
Oh! And make sure you don't have an IT person do it for you - find a business guy who uses Excel a fair amount. They are the real wizards. IT guys always overcomplicate things - I should know, I've been one for 35 years.

Marc

Marc
Click to expand...

IT professionals like to refer that as "job security" :biggrin:
 
Marc,

I AM a business guy who knows excel pretty well.

But, I don't see a good design here.

The prizes need to be on one spreadsheet for each contest. That is, One Alumilite went to one recipient on the 1st, another the 11th and one the 25th for trivia (dates not accurate, but there were three). Then one alumilite went to the "open pen", one to the slimline and one to the ugly pen. So, then we email the winners for THEIR information and pass it along to the vendor-donor. Now, the vendor decides that they will ship them all at once. So, it sits until the end of the month, when they need a listing that includes the phone numbers.

Because I have been cut and pasting the emails, I can't readily access the information from each of the contests to assemble this report. (Although this is a true representation, it is not meant to be critical of Alumilite - SEVERAL donors have asked for reviews and we have created them - but NOT with EASE)

So, if I understand, you propose that I should enter the winners' information in an excel worksheet, as well as cutting and pasting to email. Then code each one with the contests won? (This may sound argumentative, it is not meant that way - yes it increases the "daily steps", but it may be the most efficient method, nonetheless).

Please discuss!
 
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Ed;

I warned you not to ask an IT guy. My personal guess is you could do this with one sheet. with columns for winners info, prize and vendor info. Maybe columns for shipping date, etc.. You should be able to get what you need for a vendor by sorting by vendor, winner, and prize, etc. You could start up additional sheets that actually refer to columns in the mater sheet for creating 'reports.' Or mailing labels, etc. Check out the Word 'MailMerge.'

I suspect you could also do it as Lou suggested with a handful of different tables and a pivot table set up but I'll tell you now IT guys don't do pivot tables. They're beneath us. [and we don't know how] >:p

There would be a bit of double entry, but nothing too hard to manage. Heck, I'm laziness personified and I'd be willing to help or even do the record keeping myself if I'm still speaking to everyone next year!!!

Marc

ed4copies said:
Marc,

I AM a business guy who knows excel pretty well.

But, I don't see a good design here.

The prizes need to be on one spreadsheet for each contest. That is, One Alumilite went to one recipient on the 1st, another the 11th and one the 25th for trivia (dates not accurate, but there were three). Then one alumilite went to the "open pen", one to the slimline and one to the ugly pen. So, then we email the winners for THEIR information and pass it along to the vendor-donor. Now, the vendor decides that they will ship them all at once. So, it sits until the end of the month, when they need a listing that includes the phone numbers.

Because I have been cut and pasting the emails, I can't readily access the information from each of the contests to assemble this report. (Although this is a true representation, it is not meant to be critical of Alumilite - SEVERAL donors have asked for reviews and we have created them - but NOT with EASE)

So, if I understand, you propose that I should enter the winners' information in an excel worksheet, as well as cutting and pasting to email. Then code each one with the contests won? (This may sound argumentative, it is not meant that way - yes it increases the "daily steps", but it may be the most efficient method, nonetheless).

Please discuss!
Click to expand...
 
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ed4copies said:
Marc,

I AM a business guy who knows excel pretty well.

But, I don't see a good design here.

The prizes need to be on one spreadsheet for each contest. That is, One Alumilite went to one recipient on the 1st, another the 11th and one the 25th for trivia (dates not accurate, but there were three). Then one alumilite went to the "open pen", one to the slimline and one to the ugly pen. So, then we email the winners for THEIR information and pass it along to the vendor-donor. Now, the vendor decides that they will ship them all at once. So, it sits until the end of the month, when they need a listing that includes the phone numbers.

Because I have been cut and pasting the emails, I can't readily access the information from each of the contests to assemble this report. (Although this is a true representation, it is not meant to be critical of Alumilite - SEVERAL donors have asked for reviews and we have created them - but NOT with EASE)

So, if I understand, you propose that I should enter the winners' information in an excel worksheet, as well as cutting and pasting to email. Then code each one with the contests won? (This may sound argumentative, it is not meant that way - yes it increases the "daily steps", but it may be the most efficient method, nonetheless).

Please discuss!
Click to expand...

In my proposal, you have a database with 4-6 tables: Prize, Contest, and Participant - these 3 get related together in a fourth table called Directory (what is called a fact table) using the ID values created in the 3 dimension tables. The fifth table could be Vendor and relates to the Prize table.

The dimension tables, say Contest, contain fields like Contest Name, Contest Start Date, Contest End Date, etc. The Directory Table would contain: PrizeID, ContestID, and ParticipantID

I typically add a sixth table called Codes to my applications that doesn't directly relate to any table, but is used to look values up for lists and such.
 
pipecrafter said:
Calm down Barney. Note the smiley - t'was a joke, man.

While I agree that databases are more robust (seriously, I've been doing this IT thing for 20 years) the problem is that the amount of time it takes to setup the tablespaces, generate the table relations, create the reports, and generate the output, is significantly longer than just putting it all in a spreadheet and sorting by column.

Unless, that is, you're just using one table, and sorting the table by column in order to see the data you need - in that case, it's pretty much just a spreadsheet. :wink:
Click to expand...

No worries there........the old BP didn't spike at all!!! :bananen_smilies022:
Looks like there's been plenty of input on this subject!!! Now, the powers to be just have to make a choice and take up the volunteers' offer.....:bananen_smilies035: so they can now "GET TO WORK!" LOL

Barney
 
Oh! And make sure you don't have an IT person do it for you - find a business guy who uses Excel a fair amount. They are the real wizards. IT guys always overcomplicate things - I should know, I've been one for 35 years.
Click to expand...

Something just AIN'T right in that statement?
 
Ed,

We can talk about this on friday... There can be a pretty good 'mixed' answer here too. I'm thinking about a hosted DB, that way there can be separation of the work... And maybe an access front end to it to be able to make the user experience for the handful of administrators easier.

The direct excel and access dbs both have the flaw that >1 person is tougher.
 
PenAffair said:
Well if it was me doing it, I'd first go with an excel spreadsheet and pivot tables, a lot less work.

But, if I had the time and wanted it accessible anywhere, or to several "administrator" type people so the job isn't linked to one perosn, I'd do up a php & MySql web solution.

MSAccess used to be my database of choice, but unless I'm in a big rush & it's a job Excel can't do,PhP is my preferred environment these days.

Russell.
Click to expand...

My personal vote for something like this is a mix... I think the data should be on mysql, but the PHP dev part might be a bit more painfull, so we could have an access front end that is sent to the administrators and links to the mysql tables on a web server.

That gives the 'rich' UI for ease of reporting, etc that access gives you and the sharing of data for the administrators.
 
Ed:

Check with Jeff. He and I were discussing a different project and he indicated there is "database capability" within the structure of the IAP forum software. Whether it is powerful enough to satisfy your requirements would be a question for Jeff.
 
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