Gluing & drilling wood+acrylic blanks

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mChavez

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Nov 12, 2024
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Hi All.

I am an experienced woodworker, not very experienced turner and a complete newbie to penmaking, so the question is probably dumb, but here we go:

What's the best way to make & prep a glued wood-acryllic blank?

Here's the problem description:
For wooden slimline kits I've just bumped a blank square on a disk sander, then drilled in a drill press with a 7mm drill. Off central axis? Yes. No problem, plenty of meet to turn down and potentially better looking grain.
Now, suppose I want to make a sandwich with acrylic block-long wooden block-acrylic block. I can glue them up using 5-min epoxy, but now I need to drill the bore in line with the central axis, or the acrylic-wood joints are going to be slightly tilted off 90 degrees to the bore and look odd. How can I ensure that the joint lines will be perpendicular to the drilled axis?

Drilling on a drill press won't produce a perfectly aligned bore.

Possible solution 1
Round the blank between centers, then drill on a lathe. There will be some off-axis error when mounting between centres and probably some error when drilling on a lathe (it's an old wood lathe, there's quite a bit of run-off and misalignment between headstock & tailstock compared to an engineering lathe). I expect the success chance will be quite low.

Solution 2: Glue the sandwich at 60-70 degrees instead of 90. Off-axis errors are now a feature. Also slightly bigger gluing surface.;)

Solution 3: Glue at 90, drill with an error, then install contrast bands at the joints. If the segments are all wooden, a wide burn mark will do the trick, but this won't work on plastic.
Swaging a metal ring is not an option I suspect, unless you've got specialist equipment.
I can turn a 1mm-deep, 4mm-wide groove at the joint on the mandrel and use CA to glue in a strip of contrasting veneer, then drown it in CA perhaps? Does anyone use this technique with any degree of success?

Solution 4: Turn the groove at the joint and fill it with contrasting colour celluloid. Unless you're experienced in working with melted celluloid, air bubbles can form in the filler once it's dry, which means it will have to be re-filled, possibly more than once. Also, I'm not sure if celluloid is safe to turn/polish on a lathe, given that it self-combusts at quite low temperatures.

Solution 5: Use high quality wood filler in the said groove. But I expect that to chip with use/if the pen is dropped.

I think option 2 is probably the easiest one, followed by option 4, but I wonder how "real" penturners handle this.

Thank you.
 
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Using a drill vise on a drill press can assist in drilling true. There are a few commercial ones available for this.

On the lathe of you have a chuck with pin jaws or is possible to drill out blanks very true. Alternatively you can buy pen jaws for your chuck to do the drilling with. If you do not have a chuck then this is an option.


Another option you didn't mention would be to drill each of the three pieces before assembly then use the tube to align them for glueup.

I'm not an expert, in fact, I'm new as well. Each of the methods mentioned above work well for different people. Finding what works for you is part of the adventure.

Gregory
 
You are talking about building a segmented blank. My problem is what you are explaining is 2 different type of segments. The first thing you ask is about building a blank that has strips of wood and or acrylic laying flat side by side. The next thing I am reading about segments that are stacked on top of one another and you using rings or oops bands. My first response will be unless you have equipment that can drill straight you can not do what you want accurately. You say your lathe has alot of runout and will not drill straight. Then how in the world are you going to make pens. They require a true axis to get them in a straight line. To get back to the drilling part, if your drill press can not drill straight that is not an option either. Most people who do segmenting drill the blanks on the lathe for that should be the most accurate tool. You do not need a machinist metal lathe. A good quality wood lathe works just fine with good quality chucks. I could tell you how but be wasting time if your tools are not well tuned. I will let others try to help you. If you can tune your lathe to run straight with the head and tailstock aligned then there is hope. Even if you could drill straight on the drill press you will not keep the centers aligned if your lathe has run out. I am sorry but you need tools that will work well.
 
Now, that is an interesting thought! Haven't thought of that one.
That is done if you are stack building a blank. The big thing there is the pieces must be equal size throughout the piece. In other words they must be parallel and not cut on a slant unless you are going for that look. Drilling the hole again must be 90 degrees and the hole can not be too loose or else when you build the blank it can shift and be off center.
 
@jttheclockman

Stack, rather than a sandwich, yes. Still learning the terminology.

Just checked with a micrometer:
Headstock dead centre runout +/-0.1mm. I believe that's about +/-4 thou in yankee dollars.
Spindle thread runout is +/-0.05mm, so +/-2 thou.

Tailstock alignment is a different matter, but a typical woodworking lathe used for typical wood turning is not expected to be anywhere near engineers' lathe tolerances here, at least this side of the pond. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I just don't see how tailstock can be tuned/modified to have perfect alignment with the headstock every time after I moved it. It's a Record DML24 that I have.
Also, I expect lathe bed flex to be wild compared to an engineer's lathe. Lighter lathe = more vibration.

Boring up to 50-60mm on the lathe - shouldn't be a problem, but then all the minor issues start compounding. Mind you, It's been a while since I've done any boring on it.

Drill press has had a tougher life than average over the last 10 years, but it's not the issue with the drill - it's the whole clamping set-up & squaring the blanks business that determines how much error you get.

For stacking on the tube, do you glue the stacks together & to the tube at the same time? Or wax the tube, epoxy the segments together, then sand the tube & gorilla the blank to the tube?

PS By the way, still interested to hear if anyone successfully does accent rings with celluoid.
 
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I make a lot of segmented blanks. Gluing individual pieces on a tube is not my preference but I know lots of people do it that way. I feel I get better accuracy gluing it altogether and then drilling it. Either way works. You have hit though one of skills you need to conquer with segmented blanks. The drilled hole has to be very true through the center of the blank. That's why the blank has to be square. All my blanks are square within .010 and I drill on the lathe with pen chucks. Also important that the end facing is true to the tube.
 
To turn a pen on a lathe, you are needing everything to be in pretty good, repeatable alignment. Headstock and tailstock must be perfectly aligned for real success - tolerances on a pen are not very forgiving. Do this by using dead centers in both the headstock and tailstock and then cleaning, adjusting and shimming either or both the headstock and tailstock to get them to align when fully locked down. Record lathes are pretty well built, so I don't see how the lathe bed movement should be an issue, things just need to be set up correctly. Be sure to clean and adjust the tailstock locking mechanism and the underside of the bed rails where they meet the lock cam when locked down - insure it is smooth, rust free, and not gunked up. You want movement of the tailstock across the bed rails to be smooth and consistent regardless of where they are on the rails. Check alignment as you go. Once everything is clean, give it a good coat of wax or rust prevention coating and enjoy.

Upgrade your chuck if needed and look into pen specific jaws. A good Jacob's chuck for the tailstock is also needed. A good amount of alignment issues start with the Morse taper in either or both the headstock or tailstock not being clean and optimized. Be sure to clean the taper with a taper cleaner or something similar and be sure to clean the flat mating surfaces of the headstock face where the chuck and the drive meet - any gunk on the mating surface can introduce a few thousands of an inch of errors on the headstock end which only magnifies as you increase the length of the turning.

There are thousands of people turning simple and complex pens on wood lathes with pretty good success, so don't agree with your statement that you need an 'engineering lathe' - I think you just need to take some time, start at the beginning and try something simple after aligning everything properly on your Record, then move to something more complex. I would focus on the basics here before I would get more complex with either projects or equipment.
 
Thanks. Have a big 4-jaw chuck already, but not the right jaws. Tailstock jacobs chuck too.

I've picked up an er32 collet chuck for not much more than a new set of jaws which, I think, will be a much better option for all the kitless stuff that I intend to do.

Thanks for all your help folks, I've built my first stacked blank last night:
- drilled the oversized wooden & acryllic segments in the press
- barrel-trimmed them so they are perfectly square to the tube axis and the gluing surfaces are aligned
- applied some release agent to the brass tube
- used 5 min epoxy on the joints and clamped the whole assembly overnight.
- locked the tube onto the pen mandrel and twisted the blank off the tube.

I intend to glue this blank back onto a tube using Gorilla - at least as a beginner, it's much easier to do the rod gluing separately.

As far as epoxy release agents go, you should always use the right product that was specifically designed for the job you're doing.
At least that's what the marketing man tells you.
I used neutral kiwi polish ;). It's got a good reputation as epoxy release agent for bedding rifle stocks.

I think I can adapt this technique to build kitless barrels:cool:
 
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