Glue to use for brass

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
A

a260cray

Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
3
Location
Plainfield, Illinois
I'm starting to do some segmenting with my wood blanks, and I've had good luck with medium CA for gluing many different types of wood. I'm now trying to include some thin brass strips in between the wood components and the CA glue is not cutting it on the brass. The wood seems to stick to the brass with the CA, but when I drill the blank or start to turn the blank thin (i.e. pen-size), the blanks are coming apart. Any suggestions regarding the glue I should use? Would Titebond wood glue work? I haven't tried epoxy yet because the segments I'm using need to glued at an angle, and once that dries, then I need to glue another piece to that, and then another, etc. so that would mean mixing a small amount of epoxy, then mixing another small batch, then again and again. Ideas?
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Use very thin brass sheet. Mine is 0.2 mm. I use oily glue, which is a CA derivative with a higher fail temperature. You still have to drill extremely slowly and cool the bit continuously. Any heat buildup will cause the glue to fail.
 
I use Gorilla glue (the foaming type) and wet one of the surfaces. Only failures I've had were my errors. Not coating the surfaces fully is the major reason.
 
Something others haven't mentioned yet but will help you immensely is to scuff the metal with some sandpaper (don't forget to wipe with alcohol or acetone after) before gluing. The increased surface area really helps the hold. I normally use 180 grit, but that's personal opinion.
 
Drewby108 said:
Something others haven't mentioned yet but will help you immensely is to scuff the metal with some sandpaper (don't forget to wipe with alcohol or acetone after) before gluing. The increased surface area really helps the hold. I normally use 180 grit, but that's personal opinion.
Click to expand...
I second this. Epoxy is a mechanical bond. If you want it to hold, you need to give it something to hold on to.
 
I tried a 2-part epoxy and the segments are still coming apart during the drilling. Hmm? The brass I'm using is .010 in thickness, and I've scuffed it and cleaned it before the glue up. I've allowed 24 hours cure time and tried a few different wood types as well, walnut, maple, and rosewood. The brass is simply not sticking to the wood. I've also tried two different types of drill bit, a simple jobber bit and a brad point bit. I'm drilling on the lathe and wondering if the twisting motion of the un-supported glue-up is just too much. Hard to believe thats the case with epoxy, but at this point it's anyone's guess. Maybe I'll try drilling on the drill press with the blank supported on all sides in the drill vise.
 
What you're attempting to do is quite difficult. To be successful, you have to have a sharp bit, and go in tiny pecks, of about 1/16", then cool the bit down and peck again. It takes me about a half hour to drill a blank with metal inlay. Longer if it's a capped pen.

It helps to wrap the blank in tape. Sometimes when I remove the tape the joint has failed, but I can reassemble it on the tube and get satisfactory results… though it may leave a glue gap on the finished pen.
 
a260cray said:
I tried a 2-part epoxy and the segments are still coming apart during the drilling. Hmm? The brass I'm using is .010 in thickness, and I've scuffed it and cleaned it before the glue up. I've allowed 24 hours cure time and tried a few different wood types as well, walnut, maple, and rosewood. The brass is simply not sticking to the wood. I've also tried two different types of drill bit, a simple jobber bit and a brad point bit. I'm drilling on the lathe and wondering if the twisting motion of the un-supported glue-up is just too much. Hard to believe thats the case with epoxy, but at this point it's anyone's guess. Maybe I'll try drilling on the drill press with the blank supported on all sides in the drill vise.
Click to expand...
lets start at the beginning. First CA will not work. (Way too brittle) Wood glues will not work. Epoxy is the way to go. Now with that said, what type of segmenting are you doing. Can you show us a photo? If you are just doing rings between segments then I suggest you do a build on the tube and pre drill all parts ahead of time individually. Now you have eliminated the stress from drilling. But if you are drilling on any angle or straight down the edge of brass you will have huge problems. Brass is not all the same. Some brass is harder than others It is hard drawn. This goes into too much science. But the forces you put on the glue joint if drilling on angles is tremendous and that bit will rip and not cut. Same goes for aluminum. There are different grades of metals and also copper. So when people say they use metals and get away with drilling, ask them what grade of metal are they using? Back to epoxy glues. I am a big fan of System3 T88 epoxy. It is a 24 hour cure epoxy though . Now to method. If you are gluing metals to wood or acrylic you have to do more than sand the flats. You have to actually groove them so that epoxy can get inside the grooves and adhere. Sanding is just shallow scratches that mean little in this case. Use a dremel tool or something like that to make deeper groves in different directions.

After all said and done now turning will become the next challenge and this is where tool sharpness and control come into play. You have to be able to control your tools to take very light cuts. You can continue to coat the blank with thin CA to help keep things together. But what will help is when you insert the tube, again use a good quality epoxy. Has to be epoxy. Some people get away with gorilla foaming glues. I have no workings with that so can not speak to it. Good luck it is doable but again post photo of your attemps. Helps us help you.

One other thing Ditch the brad point bits with metal. Not a good idea. A less steeper angle jobber bit will work better.
 
jttheclockman said:
lets start at the beginning. First CA will not work. (Way too brittle) Wood glues will not work. Epoxy is the way to go. Now with that said, what type of segmenting are you doing. Can you show us a photo? If you are just doing rings between segments then I suggest you do a build on the tube and pre drill all parts ahead of time individually. Now you have eliminated the stress from drilling. But if you are drilling on any angle or straight down the edge of brass you will have huge problems. Brass is not all the same. Some brass is harder than others It is hard drawn. This goes into too much science. But the forces you put on the glue joint if drilling on angles is tremendous and that bit will rip and not cut. Same goes for aluminum. There are different grades of metals and also copper. So when people say they use metals and get away with drilling, ask them what grade of metal are they using? Back to epoxy glues. I am a big fan of System3 T88 epoxy. It is a 24 hour cure epoxy though . Now to method. If you are gluing metals to wood or acrylic you have to do more than sand the flats. You have to actually groove them so that epoxy can get inside the grooves and adhere. Sanding is just shallow scratches that mean little in this case. Use a dremel tool or something like that to make deeper groves in different directions.

After all said and done now turning will become the next challenge and this is where tool sharpness and control come into play. You have to be able to control your tools to take very light cuts. You can continue to coat the blank with thin CA to help keep things together. But what will help is when you insert the tube, again use a good quality epoxy. Has to be epoxy. Some people get away with gorilla foaming glues. I have no workings with that so can not speak to it. Good luck it is doable but again post photo of your attemps. Helps us help you.

One other thing Ditch the brad point bits with metal. Not a good idea. A less steeper angle jobber bit will work better.
Click to expand...
John T. Thank you for the in-depth ideas/suggestions, much appreciated. I am trying some new things, i.e. drilling on the press, new drill bits, and supporting the piece on all sides while drilling. Will let you all know how it goes.
 
I've noticed CA glue is great for stretching or Extention strength but not so good at shear strength. I wood imagine, your segmenting is creating need for shear strength. Epoxy is great for shear strength. I did a lot of tensile strength testing in college in my architecture design classes. It would be interesting to see someone do some tensile strength testing on all these different glues we use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom