Hello everyone. I am new to turning and making pens. One problem I have had is gluing the brass tube in the blank. After drilling and making sure it fits, I test the tube and all looks and feels good. I apply the CA glue and a couple of times the glue set before I finish putting the tube in fully. Should I just use epoxy for this instead of CA glue? Thanks in advance
Glue sets before tube is fully inserted in blank
- Thread starter Joesteam
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its_virgil
Member
Yes, move to epoxy.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Epoxy is one answer,
however, I made hundreds of pens using CA and ran into that problem often enough to diagnose the cause.
1> Don't use thin CA, use medium or thick
2> If the blank is still warm from drilling, heat accelerates CA, wait until it cools
3> If you used water to cool, water accelerates CA, dry the blank thoroughly before inserting CA and tube.
Follow those suggestions and you can glue with CA, if you wish.
Epoxy will give a better bond, but I never wanted to mess with mixing epoxy
Welcome to the hobby--HAVE FUN!!!!!
Ed
however, I made hundreds of pens using CA and ran into that problem often enough to diagnose the cause.
1> Don't use thin CA, use medium or thick
2> If the blank is still warm from drilling, heat accelerates CA, wait until it cools
3> If you used water to cool, water accelerates CA, dry the blank thoroughly before inserting CA and tube.
Follow those suggestions and you can glue with CA, if you wish.
Epoxy will give a better bond, but I never wanted to mess with mixing epoxy
Welcome to the hobby--HAVE FUN!!!!!
Ed
Doughboy
Member
I use 15-minute epoxy...
egnald
Member
I am in the epoxy crowd; however, I have used thick CA (actually CA Gel) on occasion if I was in a real hurry and couldn't wait for the epoxy to cure. If you have a spare tube you can sometimes glue it in from the opposite end and then cut the excess tube off from both ends. Measure and barrel trim (or sand) it on the ends to get rid of the rough spots and to get it to the exact length. It works most of the time and can sometimes save a really nice blank. - Dave
PS Bob Blanford (RJB Woodturner) made a YouTube 9 years ago showing how he does it. The video is called Repairing A Pen Blank When The Tube Isn't Fully Inserted.
PS Bob Blanford (RJB Woodturner) made a YouTube 9 years ago showing how he does it. The video is called Repairing A Pen Blank When The Tube Isn't Fully Inserted.
sorcerertd
Member
I use Gorilla glue for regular wood blanks, epoxy for everything else. That works well for me, but I always glue in the tubes well ahead of turning, at least a day before.
Thank you all for your help. I will use this advice. I started by watching Cat Eddie Castelin videos and got hooked. I love making pens and give them to family and friends. Always looking for better methods and techniques. Thank you all
mmayo
Member
Just use two part epoxy.
Ok... So I've used 3-4 kinds of CA glue and 2 kinds of epoxy trying to figure out what I like. It's come down to "yes" or "both" depending on what I'm doing.
Another glue type I have no experience with is PVA glue like Gorilla Glue. I know of a couple of turners who swear by it. No idea what it might look like on a clear or translucent tube though.
Before I go any further. The glue method I was taught when I got started on this crazy hobby called penmaking was to put glue on the tube, place into the blank and rotate the blank and push up and down the tube to distribute the glue. Pull the blank off the tube, reapply some glue if needed and insert in the other end rotating/pushing to coat the 2nd end of the blank and insert the tube to the depth I wanted from the 2nd end. Yes, that can be done with a faster setting CA. Is it easier with a slower setting CA? Absolutely. I'm not going to debate how I do it, it's just the method I was taught and is the one I use if I'm using CA or epoxy.
In no particular order of response and the words below are opinions. I'm sure plenty of folks will disagree with me or have other thoughts.
CA Glues - I like them for the convenience and the ability of the glue to set quickly. I pretty much make pens one at a time so I don't need to "production glue" blanks up 10 at a time. It does not expand to fill gaps between the tube and side of the hole in the blank. I think I've only had one pen break while turning when using CA and I think it was because I didn't have enough glue on the blank wall to adhere to the tube. When I examined the tube where everything broke there was no glue residue on it so I took that as a mistake on my part when gluing. I think a lot of the reason people dislike CA glues is that not all medium or even thick glues are made the same. The viscosity and set times vary wider than the Grand Canyon. For instance, when I started making pens I had a starter kit from Rockler that included StickFast CA (pretty sure it was medium) that worked really well to glue tubes and was somewhat viscous but I needed to be efficient with my motion when using it because it would start to set if I was pokey. After a couple of bottles of stickfast and a lot of pens my local woodcraft quit stocking it and Exotic Blanks was out also. A good friend recommended Titebond medium because that's what he uses almost exclusively. I found that it set way to quickly for my taste because I glued a couple of tubes into blanks before I was ready. It seemed somewhat thinner than the medium Stickfast. From there I did some research at the MPG this year with various people and decided to pick up some EZ Bond. I wasn't sure if I wanted to use the thick or medium so I bought both. Honestly to my eye, the medium is a little too "thin" and the thick is still pretty darn "thin" too. However the open time is pretty amazing because I can glue really long tubes like the Berea Long Clicker with no issue. I think the thick will now be my CA glue for tubes going forward. As I said, even the thick is a little thin because I've had a tube slip out the other side when first trying the glue and now watch for that. I don't feel it was the size of the hole but more because the tube was able to slide around easily.
Epoxies - I have strictly used 5 minute epoxies mainly because I don't need anything with a longer open time than that and because it was what I had laying around the shop when I needed it. The open time on epoxies is always going to be greater than open time on CA glues which means they will take longer to set too. I generally leave anything with epoxy overnight if I can. Epoxy will fill space between a tube and a blank, I've never personally tried to test how far it will go but have used a blank or two that I thought might be an issue with no trouble when using epoxy. I started out using JBWeld from the syringe because it's easier for me to get accurate amounts that way. My problem with JB Weld is that to my nose it stinks to high heaven. My shop is in the basement of our house and my wife has complained once or twice when I've used it because the smell will drift upstairs. Bear in mind that I'm hardly using any of it on a pen. When I happily ran out of JB Weld I switched to Gorilla Glue 5 minute epoxy because my local big box store had both it and JB Weld and I thought maybe I would get lucky with less smell if I switched brands. My luck held as good as the epoxy because there's no where near the smell with Gorilla Glue as JB Weld. I have no idea on the shear strength of the two but considering I'm dealing with pens and not something structural I don't worry about it. Either one of the two comes in a syringe and is super easy to mix and apply to a tube. I strictly use epoxy on bottle stoppers now because my pilot hole for the steel insert I use feels a little big at times and I want the gap filling ability of epoxy to help me out. I do use epoxy on some pen tubes occasionally too.
I hope you don't mind the long response.
Another glue type I have no experience with is PVA glue like Gorilla Glue. I know of a couple of turners who swear by it. No idea what it might look like on a clear or translucent tube though.
Before I go any further. The glue method I was taught when I got started on this crazy hobby called penmaking was to put glue on the tube, place into the blank and rotate the blank and push up and down the tube to distribute the glue. Pull the blank off the tube, reapply some glue if needed and insert in the other end rotating/pushing to coat the 2nd end of the blank and insert the tube to the depth I wanted from the 2nd end. Yes, that can be done with a faster setting CA. Is it easier with a slower setting CA? Absolutely. I'm not going to debate how I do it, it's just the method I was taught and is the one I use if I'm using CA or epoxy.
In no particular order of response and the words below are opinions. I'm sure plenty of folks will disagree with me or have other thoughts.
CA Glues - I like them for the convenience and the ability of the glue to set quickly. I pretty much make pens one at a time so I don't need to "production glue" blanks up 10 at a time. It does not expand to fill gaps between the tube and side of the hole in the blank. I think I've only had one pen break while turning when using CA and I think it was because I didn't have enough glue on the blank wall to adhere to the tube. When I examined the tube where everything broke there was no glue residue on it so I took that as a mistake on my part when gluing. I think a lot of the reason people dislike CA glues is that not all medium or even thick glues are made the same. The viscosity and set times vary wider than the Grand Canyon. For instance, when I started making pens I had a starter kit from Rockler that included StickFast CA (pretty sure it was medium) that worked really well to glue tubes and was somewhat viscous but I needed to be efficient with my motion when using it because it would start to set if I was pokey. After a couple of bottles of stickfast and a lot of pens my local woodcraft quit stocking it and Exotic Blanks was out also. A good friend recommended Titebond medium because that's what he uses almost exclusively. I found that it set way to quickly for my taste because I glued a couple of tubes into blanks before I was ready. It seemed somewhat thinner than the medium Stickfast. From there I did some research at the MPG this year with various people and decided to pick up some EZ Bond. I wasn't sure if I wanted to use the thick or medium so I bought both. Honestly to my eye, the medium is a little too "thin" and the thick is still pretty darn "thin" too. However the open time is pretty amazing because I can glue really long tubes like the Berea Long Clicker with no issue. I think the thick will now be my CA glue for tubes going forward. As I said, even the thick is a little thin because I've had a tube slip out the other side when first trying the glue and now watch for that. I don't feel it was the size of the hole but more because the tube was able to slide around easily.
Epoxies - I have strictly used 5 minute epoxies mainly because I don't need anything with a longer open time than that and because it was what I had laying around the shop when I needed it. The open time on epoxies is always going to be greater than open time on CA glues which means they will take longer to set too. I generally leave anything with epoxy overnight if I can. Epoxy will fill space between a tube and a blank, I've never personally tried to test how far it will go but have used a blank or two that I thought might be an issue with no trouble when using epoxy. I started out using JBWeld from the syringe because it's easier for me to get accurate amounts that way. My problem with JB Weld is that to my nose it stinks to high heaven. My shop is in the basement of our house and my wife has complained once or twice when I've used it because the smell will drift upstairs. Bear in mind that I'm hardly using any of it on a pen. When I happily ran out of JB Weld I switched to Gorilla Glue 5 minute epoxy because my local big box store had both it and JB Weld and I thought maybe I would get lucky with less smell if I switched brands. My luck held as good as the epoxy because there's no where near the smell with Gorilla Glue as JB Weld. I have no idea on the shear strength of the two but considering I'm dealing with pens and not something structural I don't worry about it. Either one of the two comes in a syringe and is super easy to mix and apply to a tube. I strictly use epoxy on bottle stoppers now because my pilot hole for the steel insert I use feels a little big at times and I want the gap filling ability of epoxy to help me out. I do use epoxy on some pen tubes occasionally too.
I hope you don't mind the long response.
Rogue.Robot
Member
I had this problem, the blank was still hot from drilling. Now I make sure they're cool before applying glue.
egnald
Member
JB really does have a foul smell doesn't it.
indeed. I'd prefer a hog feedlot in July
egnald
Member
And for some reason, a single drop of acrylic craft paint added to the mixture bumps up the level of icky smell an additional notch. I'm going to have to see if I can find some other brand in one of our local stores to give it a try. - Dave
I'd definitely look at gorilla glue then, you can purchase it from Exotic Blanks
ramaroodle
Member
As many have said, CA glue should always be your (my) LAST choice. It has very very poor "shear strength" which is what is exerted on a spinning blank. For segmented blanks, JB weld is the choice. I have done a few side-by-side tests looking and 2 part JB epoxy is always the hands down strength winner but Gorilla Glue also does a fine job. Both fill voids. It's kind of a toss-up. I like G Glue on wood cuz I can see the glue expand out past the edge of the blanks so I know it's filling the voids. Even though it says 5 min or 15 min times JB is a one hour min set time for me where GG is overnight or at least a few hours.
Woodchipper
Member
I use thick CA and made a tool out of HDPE to insert the tube. Insert and turn...quick like a bunny rabbit. If I was gluing several tubes, I would opt of Two Ton Epoxy by Devcon. Thirty minutes work time. I used it for fishing rod grips, golf clubs and let it set overnight.
monophoto
Member
Or polyurethane (ie Gorilla glue)