Getting started priorities?

[GFHWoodWerks]

As a new pen turner it's easy to get lost in the magnitude of choices in pen kits, let's not even discuss blank choices. I like most, I think, procured a starter kit of slimline pens and blanks to start with. I've drooled over the available designs some i really like the look of regardless of price.

Now onto my question(s), with all that said. Just starting out it's easy to get analysis paralysis. I have the following questions for the groups wisdom to discuss.

1. What kit would you start with as a new pen turner?
2. Would you stick with one kit for awhile or pick a few different to learn the hobby with?
3. What would be the Ballpoint, Rollerball, and Fountain pen models you would suggest for a new pen turner? (Think minimizing supper equipment, bushings, drill bits,...)
4. Would you stick with wood or acrylic to learn on? (Both is a viable answer)
5. Any other advice you would give a new pen turner, that you wish you knew when you started?

Thanks
Gregory

 

[jttheclockman]

I suggest any of the many Sierra style kits out there. They are the one piece kits. Many different names for these and they come in some beautiful kits. Much more rewarding and better sellers and to me more attractive than any slimline kit. as far as material for blanks. Use both wood and acrylic and learn the differences when turning. better to start this way and develop finishing techniques along the way. stick with ballpoint first. Rollerball gets into two part kits and fountain pens are just too much to learn if you want to get efficient. Good luck.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

...fountain pens are just too much to learn if you want to get efficient.

May I ask why you think this. Am I wrong in thinking that a fountain JR Gent II Fountain pen and Rollerball are the same in manufacture?

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Do you have any equipment besides chisels? If not buy the axminster starter kit; great value for money. Stick to the mandrel provided and ditch any mandrels with a nut. Turn these slimlines first and try to experiment with different styles. Once you make a few nice slimlines all the other one piece kits are a walk in the park.

Pen Turning Starter Package

These Pen Turning Kits comprise 4 of our most popular twist pen kits, along with 4 different pen blanks, plus an Axminster Pen Mandrel, Barrel Trimmer and 7mm HSS Pen Drill. To begin turning these classy looking writing implements all you need to add...

www.axminstertools.com

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Do you have any equipment besides chisels? If not buy the axminster starter kit; great value for money. Stick to the mandrel provided and ditch any mandrels with a nut. Turn these slimlines first and try to experiment with different styles. Once you make a few nice slimlines all the other one piece kits are a walk in the park.

Pen Turning Starter Package

These Pen Turning Kits comprise 4 of our most popular twist pen kits, along with 4 different pen blanks, plus an Axminster Pen Mandrel, Barrel Trimmer and 7mm HSS Pen Drill. To begin turning these classy looking writing implements all you need to add...

www.axminstertools.com

Thanks. I already have all of that, mandrel with mandrel saver, 20 slimline kits (all wood blanks), drill bit, barrel timer. I also have turn between center mandrel that uses mandrel bushings.

I'm also planning on making a lathe barrel end sanding setup, and a lathe based assembly rig, and my own finishing bushings. I like your thought of sticking to slimline's until I'm confidant and making good pens. Just from a cost perspective that makes sense.

 

[jttheclockman]

May I ask why you think this. Am I wrong in thinking that a fountain JR Gent II Fountain pen and Rollerball are the same in manufacture?

Now this is my opinion. But with fountain pens it is not just turn a kit and stick a nib on it. There is knowledge you must learn how to tune a nib, what is a good nib, what is a good filling system, how to keep that working properly and so on. remember it is not only that you made the pen but now if you sell them or even give a pen away you have to be able to fix them, tune them, and repair them when called upon. I never got into making fountain pens for that reason. Too much headaches for me if you are going to do it right and your name follows the pen. You do as you please. I am sure others here will differ in my opinion but that is what is nice about pen turning. Many different kits as well as syles of pen making. Good luck.

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Thanks. I already have all of that, mandrel with mandrel saver, 20 slimline kits (all wood blanks), drill bit, barrel timer. I also have turn between center mandrel that uses mandrel bushings.

I'm also planning on making a lathe barrel end sanding setup, and a lathe based assembly rig, and my own finishing bushings. I like your thought of sticking to slimline's until I'm confidant and making good pens. Just from a cost perspective that makes sense.

Slimlines are cheap to buy their potential is great (modifications etc). Once you master them you can turn any pen kit. IMO turning two identical barrels is the first step, cheers

 

[leehljp]

Seirra styles are easier to get started with. Slimlines require more skill for perfect nib to cap fitting but are less expensive. Next up are pens with tenons.

When one has trouble being consistent on any one aspect of pen making/finishing - get half a dozen blanks or more of some plain wood and just practice, practice, practice on that one aspect. That, to me is the quickest way to get up to speed with consistency.

BTW - TBC is traditionally done without a mandrel of any kind and is much more simple to use. But if one needs a mandrel, go for it.

 

[monophoto]

Now this is my opinion. But with fountain pens it is not just turn a kit and stick a nib on it. There is knowledge you must learn how to tune a nib, what is a good nib, what is a good filling system, how to keep that working properly and so on. remember it is not only that you made the pen but now if you sell them or even give a pen away you have to be able to fix them, tune them, and repair them when called upon. I never got into making fountain pens for that reason. Too much headaches for me if you are going to do it right and your name follows the pen. You do as you please. I am sure others here will differ in my opinion but that is what is nice about pen turning. Many different kits as well as syles of pen making. Good luck.

To add to John's comments - I am a fountain pen person - I refuse to write with a ball point or roller ball - and in my opinion, most fountain pen kits are mediocre at best, and many are not worth the effort to turn and assemble them.

Also, if you are looking to get into pen turning to generate a little cash, ball points and roller balls are the way to go. The overall market for fountain pens is small, and most fountain pen aficionados avoid kit pens. There is stronger demand for non-kit fountain pens from craft makers, but making kitless pens is significantly more challenging than making kits, and you need to learn to walk before you try to run.

 

[TonyL]

I like the executives from psi: single, relatively long barrel, the barrel's center area has some "meat" on it, bushings are the same size on both ends, twist top, many types of finishes are avaiable, relatively inexpensive. The same can be said for many kits - just my opinion/experience. And men and women like them. PSI Executive

 

[Todd in PA]

I'd consider slimlines to be good practice pens. You get the opportunity to make two barrels for a very low cost.

if you're looking for other low-cost options, maybe in a single barrel, consider:
THE EDITOR. It has a snap cap. The snap isn't great, but then again neither is the slimline transmission. $4.88.
THE GATSBY. I think this is one of the cheaper single barrel twist ballpoint options. Good to practice on and has a nice transmission. $7.45.
THE ECO ZEN. This is single barrel rollerball with a metal magnetic cap, which is pretty slick. $8.50.

JT has jumped miles ahead of you here talking about service after the sale. The OP just wants to learn and practice. Still, agree that FPs aren't usually great practice pens because of cost.

 

[jttheclockman]

As you see there are different thoughts when you ask many pen makers. But just stepping back to my comment. The reason I feel that a sierra style kit is much easier to learn on is for a few reasons. One being it is one barrel. You learn to set your mandrel up and learn how to turn the blank down to meet the component measurements. You learn what to do if you over turn or under turn on one blank. If you do not like that result all you are out is the cost of a tube which are cheap. very easy to disassemble a single barrel pen to fix flaws if need be. Also you will need to learn to finish the pen blank. Weather it is with a top coating like CA or just polishing as with MM if it is acrylic. You can do this relatively cheaply and still make a pen. Slimlines are not all that easy to make. getting the trannies in just right. They are turned down very thin if making standard ones and this can be challenging. Now if you are making big bulbous pens then heck anything will do including forgetting about matching components. You have choices. This question has come up before so you can do a search here and check out past replys and may find even more responses to your liking. Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

 

[Woodchipper]

Component measurements: for many of us, the bushings, if used, are a guideline with component measurements being the standard. Also, when turning a pen, measure the length of the tube before gluing in place. When you trim the blanks and tube, measure to keep from trimming too much. I shortened a blank a bit too much for a Revolver kit and the refill is just barely inside the nib. Need to see if I can get the inserts out and start over. If not, I have a nice pen for showing others.
Welcome to the forum. Check out the library for a trainload of information and ask questions here.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Now this is my opinion. But with fountain pens it is not just turn a kit and stick a nib on it. There is knowledge you must learn how to tune a nib, what is a good nib, what is a good filling system, how to keep that working properly and so on. remember it is not only that you made the pen but now if you sell them or even give a pen away you have to be able to fix them, tune them, and repair them when called upon. I never got into making fountain pens for that reason. Too much headaches for me if you are going to do it right and your name follows the pen. You do as you please. I am sure others here will differ in my opinion but that is what is nice about pen turning. Many different kits as well as syles of pen making. Good luck.

I appreciate your input here. I haven't started down the fountain pen path, but will eventually. Knowing there are so many things in addition to building the pen is very helpful. Thanks.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Seirra styles are easier to get started with. Slimlines require more skill for perfect nib to cap fitting but are less expensive. Next up are pens with tenons.

When one has trouble being consistent on any one aspect of pen making/finishing - get half a dozen blanks or more of some plain wood and just practice, practice, practice on that one aspect. That, to me is the quickest way to get up to speed with consistency.

BTW - TBC is traditionally done without a mandrel of any kind and is much more simple to use. But if one needs a mandrel, go for it.

I really like the idea of getting extra tubes and practicing skills. I hadn't thought of that approach and will incorporate that into my practice.

As far as a mandrel i can appreciate your opinion.i had purchased one first thing when I decided to go the pen route. I had seen others saying between centers was a good method and procured the PSI version that uses mandrel bushings. There is no doubt I'll do both and see which I prefer, but I'm sure that for finishing a mandrel would seem preferable.

 

[monophoto]

"4. Would you stick with wood or acrylic to learn on?"

In my case, pen turning was my introduction to wood turning. I rarely make pens today, but instead apply my tools and skills to making other things from wood. Pens were a great starting point, and I've found that the options of different woods, and various finishes and finishing techniques provides a large selection of factors to consider. I have turned plastic, and frankly, I prefer dealing with chips and sawdust to fighting the stringiness of plastic. But that's just me - YMMV.

The other thing about wood is that it grows on trees, and there is a lot of free wood to work with. We live adjacent to a golf course, and the buffer between our back yard and the seventh fairway is a great source of material for me - white oak, sassafras, hickory, maple, birch, hackberry, etc,

My current project is to make a hiking stick for our son. Wife and I have sticks that we use when we walk in the woods. Our younger son is starting to accompany us, and wife has been letting him user her stick. But we are at the age where we need to worry about falls, and wife has had a few fractures in the last few years, so I need to get her back using her stick. I cut a hornbeam sapling from the woods behind our house, and have made a turning from white oak to decorate the top of the stick.

 

[KenB259]

The one tool I wish I had had from the get go is a set of centering bits. If you get into segmenting, where a straight hole is a requirement, they are invaluable. My thoughts on good kits to start with would also be any of the Sierra's or clones.

 

[jttheclockman]

I agree on the centering bits as well and also am not a fan of brad point bits for what we do.

 

[jrista]

May I ask why you think this. Am I wrong in thinking that a fountain JR Gent II Fountain pen and Rollerball are the same in manufacture?

Fountain pens and rollerballs are a bit more complex. They usually have caps, more parts, and often require more exacting precision in getting the length of tubes/blanks correct (otherwise you either end up with a nib too far in or out, etc.) There can be other challenges with these kinds of kits...compression fit parts will often expand the brass tubes a bit, which can cause cracking of the blanks. There are ways to deal with this, but there is definitely more experience required to make these kinds of kits than a Sierra-style ballpoint pen. As the kits are often more expensive, mistakes are thus more costly.

Sierra-style have a single tube and thus require a single blank, and are a little more forgiving if you shave off a fraction of a millimeter of the tube during end cleanup or the like. If you do screw up a Sierra style pen, they are usually a lot cheaper (especially if you buy the cheaper variants to start with.)

That is not to say you can't start with rollerballs and fountain pens. If you DO start with them, just be prepared to be more exacting and precise, go slower, be very careful, ask about the potential for tube expansion with fittings and blank cracking before you assemble, etc. If you do these things, then you should be able to make these kinds of pens without issue.

 

[jrista]

As a new pen turner it's easy to get lost in the magnitude of choices in pen kits, let's not even discuss blank choices. I like most, I think, procured a starter kit of slimline pens and blanks to start with. I've drooled over the available designs some i really like the look of regardless of price.

Now onto my question(s), with all that said. Just starting out it's easy to get analysis paralysis. I have the following questions for the groups wisdom to discuss.

1. What kit would you start with as a new pen turner?
2. Would you stick with one kit for awhile or pick a few different to learn the hobby with?
3. What would be the Ballpoint, Rollerball, and Fountain pen models you would suggest for a new pen turner? (Think minimizing supper equipment, bushings, drill bits,...)
4. Would you stick with wood or acrylic to learn on? (Both is a viable answer)
5. Any other advice you would give a new pen turner, that you wish you knew when you started?

Thanks
Gregory

1. I agree with John here, Sierras are a great way to start. Fairly forgiving kit, easy to make (even easier than slimlines, IMO, as the blank doesn't end up so thin when fully turned), easy to assemble and disassemble. They are not costly, so mistakes don't set you back a lot.

2. Fairly subjective, but, there are some nuances to pen turning. I'd pick a cheap Sierra-style kit to start with, and learn the ropes there. When you are confident you can make one of these with ease, then expand out to whatever style kits you are most interested in. Can't offer a timeframe here...everyone is different. You may get the hang of it in a few days or a week, or it might take longer. Just judge when you feel you've mastered your "starter kit" and then expand from there.

3. Ballpoint would be Sierra style kits. LOTS of them out there. Rollerball, I've always found the Barons (Navigators, I think they have some other names as well) to be a pretty easy kit to work with. They can be found in fountain pens as well. They have a variety of good platings (not sure if they still have all the precious metal platings...in the past, they had Black Ti., Silver, Rhodium (I think), not sure if these are still available. You can usually find them in chrome, gunmetal, and a couple types of gold as well.

4. True acrylic can be fairly easy to turn, and is more forgiving if a fitting expands a tube. Beyond that, resins are IMO harder to turn in general than woods. TRUE acrylic is softer than a lot of the resins, turns very well with a negative rake carbide tool, but it does have its challenges. You can fairly easily embed a waveform in the resin if you get a vibration (resin heats up and gets soft due to friction, and if a vibration occurs, that waveform from the vibration gets embedded in the soft resin...solidifying once you remove the tool.) Cleaning up these waveforms in the resin can require additional turning, which if you were close to your desired diameter already, can cost you a blank (or, maybe, require fixing with coats of CA to build back up to your diameter). Wood, although it can pick up waves like that, won't nearly as often, and you will generally want to finish with CA anyway, so if you overturn a bit to clean up turning issues, its not a big deal. A lot of woods can be more forgiving of tube expansion, although harder woods can still crack if you are not careful. I generally find wood a lot easier, and a lot faster, to turn than resins. You can rip a square blank down to round AND very near your desired diameter with just a roughing tool in a minute or two. Further refinement, then sanding, usually only takes a few more minutes. A CA finish is also pretty quick. Other finishes can potentially take longer, but overall, I find that sanding resins to a pristine, shiny, scratch-free finish is a lengthier process that often requires multiple steps, with various kinds of sandpapers, polishes and maybe also buffing. Another thing with resins, is they are not always 100% fully opaque, and as such, often require paining of the hole (not the tube, the hole), to make sure you can't see either the tube, or the nasty glue used to bond the two, once the blank is turned down thin.

5. Epoxy for blank/tube glue-ups. I started with CA, and had a lot of failures. Even with twisting, CA often did not coat the inside well, and since it can cure so fast, once the tube stops moving, it stops moving. With Epoxy, you have a lot more time to twist the tube around inside the hole, and get everything thoroughly coated. Epoxy, so long as its kept at the right temperature, will then fully polymerize with extensive cross-linking over the drying time specified. I've had a small number of blank failures with epoxy, but...I honestly don't think it was BECAUSE of the epoxy (in fact one I am sure failed due to a crack inside the blank that couldn't' be seen from the outside, and I suspect my tool caught...but the epoxy seemed to bond thoroughly well regardless.) There are differing opinions on this, some people use CA, some even use the foaming gorilla glue. I've tried them all (and even some other types of glue), and just in my own experience, I wish I'd started and stuck with Epoxy for all glue-ups. Two part, 5-10 minute epoxy, something that works well at a range of temps, but which will more thoroughly cross-link at elevated temps, is best IMO. The epoxy I usually turn to these days is T-88. It CAN cure at pretty cold temps, although it definitely takes longer, but it cures better, with a lot more cross-linking, at elevated temps. Up to 150 degrees, but, I will often just set the blanks near my fireplace with a fire going, and that heat is plenty to give me a ROCK SOLID bond, while also shortening the time to a good cure.

 

[ramaroodle]

^^ jrista above and others have summed it up well. Nothing really to add to what has been said except to reiterate what has been said. Slimlines for some reason seem to attract new pen turners because, well...? As has been said, start with single-tube larger pens. I also like the Vertex models. They are sturdy click-style pens. I made one for my son 5 or 6 years ago and he uses it every day and has had only to replace the cartridge and have sold tons of them.

I have found that the #1 philosophy with this stuff is to head-off and anticipate problems BEFORE they happen. Fortunately (or unfortunately) there is no right or wrong way. EVERYBODY has their own favorite method/system.

My rant.....! My #1 suggestion is not to use CA to glue blanks. Use epoxy or Gorilla glue. Trust those of us who tell you this! We know this like we know the earth is round! Develop a system for gluing blanks with those adhesives. Mine takes place on a sheet of waxed paper with some dental wax and is fast, quick and ends with me balling up the waste in one gloved hand and taking off the gloves and dropping it all in the trash. My avatar is a segmented pen made of wood, aluminum, plastic and acrylic. CA doesn't stand a chance of holding that together. Ask me how I know! That is 2-part JB Weld. Yes, people will say that they have used CA for 20 years without a problem. Good for them! You won't have the problems it can cause if you don't use it.

 

[sorcerertd]

My best advise isn't really my own, but I very highly suggest checking it out here: https://www.penturners.org/threads/i-wish-i-had-known-this-earlier-part-ii.152685/

As for material, you probably want to try a few varieties of both types. They can be very different to work with even within a single category, let alone both wood and "plastic". I would guess that you probably have some wood laying around already. I had plenty of walnut when I started, so that's what I used. It would be good to get a couple cheap "plastic" blanks to see how you like them. The Rhino blanks are quite inexpensive, but are quite chippy (a good way to learn, though). I would avoid Inlace Acrylester and Mica Pearl blanks for a while. They crack if you look at them wrong. Sometimes you can find some clearance alumilite blanks that didn't come out quite like the maker wanted them too. That's a cheap option to practice with.

As for kits, single barrel pens are easier to start with, but slimlines are the cheapest, since you already have the slimlines, you might as well jump on in. Sierra style kits are super easy to assemble. When you get ready to buy some more kits, consider looking for something with beads where the barrel and hardware meet. They are more forgiving when the diameter of your barrel is not exact. Here are some examples:

PSI Gatsby

Editor

PSI Executive

 

[egnald]

Greetings from Nebraska Gregory.

There have already been a lot of great responses to your questions posted. My comments may or may not fall into alignment with all of them, but they are based on my personal preferences and my learning curve. I hope my verbose responses are not too offputting - It's not my fault, I have The Knack. (Don't be afraid to click the link - it's one of my favorite YouTube videos).

1. What kit would you start with as a new pen turner?

Sierra style (one style, many kit names, Wall Street, Gatsby, Manhattan, Mesa, etc.)
+ Single Tube Design (only one blank to turn and can usually get 2 pens from one 5"-inch blank)
+ Needs only One Drill (27/64" Inch)
+ Larger / Thicker (Heftier with more"meat" left on the tube vs the Slimline)
+ Interchangeable Bushings (Both bushings are the same diameter)
+ Some parts designed with a radius (greater tolerance for satisfactory fit between the part and blank)
+ Uses Parker style refill (vs the Cross style in a Slimline - Personal Preference only)
- I'm just not a fan of the style in general (Personal Preference)

Cigar style (Cigar or Big Ben)
- Two Tube Design (however both tubes have the same diameter)
+ Needs only One Drill (10mm)
+ Larger / Thicker (Heftier with more "meat" left on the tube vs the Slimline
- Some bushings diameters are very close in diameter to each other (Easier to make turning or assembly errors)
+ Some parts designed with a radius (greater tolerance for satisfactory fit between the part and the blank)
I recommend the "Improved Fit" bushings designed by Ed at Exotic Blanks to take advantage of the radius)
+ Uses Parker style refill (vs the Cross style in a Slimline - Personal Preference only)

Like many, I started out with a Slimline, because of the kit price. As others have already said, it isn't necessarily the easiest kit available, but it is one of the oldest pen styles in the craft. After the first two pens I ever made I started using the Slimline kit but a Comfort Center Band that I bought separately from Woodturningz. The Comfort center band uses a 0.420" inch diameter bushing instead of the standard Slimline center bushing (0.336). In addition to providing a little thicker pen they also have a little bit of detail to them that (in my opinion) makes the look a little nicer than the typical slimline center band. My second style was the Cigar.

2. Would you stick with one kit for awhile or pick a few different to learn the hobby with?

I would pick a couple that I personally liked the looks of in the catalog or that someone had made and posted on the IAP website. Since I am in it purely for the hobby and for the sense of learning, skill building, and self gratification, focusing on a single style has just not been my thing. There are a few styles though that have become my favorites like Cigar, Caballero Rollerball, Diamond Knurl Rollerball, Magnetic Graduate Rollerball, DuraClick, Premium Designer NT, among others).

3. What would be the Ballpoint, Rollerball, and Fountain pen models you would suggest for a new pen turner? (Think minimizing supper equipment, bushings, drill bits,...)
I guess I would suggest taking a look at some examples of my favorites for potential models, simply out of personal preference. They don't necessarily share any bits or bushings or anything, but they are just styles that I like. That being said though, I've probably made more Cigar styles and Diamond Knurl styles than the others.

4. Would you stick with wood or acrylic to learn on? (Both is a viable answer)

To learn on for wood I would suggest Walnut and Olive. Walnut because it is inexpensive and Olive because it can have nice contrasting grain patterns and it turns like butter! My favorite I think, however, is Cocobolo because I think it is a really cool and pretty rosewood. Bocote is also nice because of it's grain patterns. As for plastic, I would suggest blanks made from Alumilite resin. It seems to be the easiest resin to turn as it is one of the least brittle of the plastic blanks on the market -- kind of like the Olive wood, I think it turns like butter!

5. Any other advice you would give a new pen turner, that you wish you knew when you started?

I'll answer this with a couple of examples where I spent too much buying things in iterations on my learning curve journy.

When I started out I used inexpensive pen mills to square the blank to the tubes. My next iteration was a carbide tipped pen mill. Then I bought a jig from PSI with various sleeves for use on my disc sander. I later designed and built a jig of my own for use on the disc sander which is what I still use today. If I wouldn't have had a disc sander already, I would have bought the offset sanding jig tooling from Rick Herrell for use on my lathe. Here is a link to Rick's Custom Made Tools catalog. He is a little more than an hour North of you on US 52 in Pilot Mountain, NC. Rick is an outstanding machinist and fantastic supporter of everyone here on IAP.

Another evolution example, I started out using MicroMesh polishing pads and liquid final polishes. After being disappointed by "white dots" from polish residue in pinholes - really small, small, pinholes, I bought a lathe mounted Acrylic Pen Buffing System PSI so I could forgo the liquid polish -- no more white dots! Later, I bought a dedicated Rikon Low Speed Buffer so I didn't have to re-tool my lathe for buffing. (I use CA as a finish on most of my wood pens, so I use the same MicroMesh and buffing regimen for both wood and plastic blanks.

Well, I'm going to stop typing now.

I hope you enjoy the hobby as much as I do and if you have any questions, please feel free to post them or to send them to me directly on the PM system through the "start conversation" links.

Best Regards,
Dave

 

[RunnerVince]

I appreciate your input here. I haven't started down the fountain pen path, but will eventually. Knowing there are so many things in addition to building the pen is very helpful. Thanks.

With fountain pens, there are really only three types of people:

1. Those that don't care what kind of pen they have as long as it writes
2. Those that want one just to have one or because they're "cool"
3. Those that are obsessed with them -- they have their own personal preferences for nibs, inks, filling systems, etc. (which they can and will explain at length if given the chance), and they are willing to pay what others consider obscene amounts of money to get those preferences.

Just for turned pens in general, #1 above already is a large group, and it gets even larger with fountain pens which can be messy, unreliable, and difficult to use if not of good quality and well-tuned. These aren't your customers.

#2 is a really niche group for fountain pens. There's a "status" that comes with using a "fancy" fountain pen, and a few people will want one just to have one. They don't know enough about them to want a certain type of nib or filling system. They just know they're fancy, and they want in. Like the guy who wants a sports car but couldn't tell you the difference between a Mustang and a Camero (and ends up with a Sebring). These aren't your best customers. Because they don't know enough about the pens, any issues they face will be your fault, even if they're actually not. Like the guy who bought a $1 million Ferrari Enzo (basically a street legal race car) and complained that it had no power windows or AC.

#3 is a small group, and it takes (IMO) considerable luck and/or effort to build a client base for these. On top of the difficulty finding customers, there's considerable cost involved in the taps and dies needed to make pens to satisfy this client base, and a considerable learning curve for making the fully custom (sometimes called "kitless" or "bespoke") pens. And if that wasn't enough, these will be your most discerning clients when it comes to everything else: fit, finish, design, packaging, material quality/rarity, and so on. Much better to perfect your finishing process on a ball point kit you can do in an afternoon with the equipment you already have then to make all your rookie mistakes on expensive blanks for pens you spend days or weeks on.

I don't do fully custom, so I don't know if you need multiple tap/die sets to be able to do pens with different nib sizes from different manufacturers, but even one set will set you back. This is not to discourage you, I'm just saying it's maybe not the best place to start.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Ask me how I know! That is 2-part JB Weld. Yes, people will say that they have used CA for 20 years without a problem. Good for them! You won't have the problems it can cause if you don't use it.

Question: knowing I eventually want to get into segmentation (part of the attraction to pens) do you mean you use an epoxy for all stages? If so how much time does that as to creating segmented blanks? I've seen many make the epoxy case for gluing tubes, segmented blanks not so much.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

Greetings from Nebraska Gregory.

There have already been a lot of great responses to your questions posted. My comments may or may not fall into alignment with all of them, but they are based on my personal preferences and my learning curve. I hope my verbose responses are not too offputting - It's not my fault, I have The Knack. (Don't be afraid to click the link - it's one of my favorite YouTube videos).

1. What kit would you start with as a new pen turner?

Sierra style (one style, many kit names, Wall Street, Gatsby, Manhattan, Mesa, etc.)
+ Single Tube Design (only one blank to turn and can usually get 2 pens from one 5"-inch blank)
+ Needs only One Drill (27/64" Inch)
+ Larger / Thicker (Heftier with more"meat" left on the tube vs the Slimline)
+ Interchangeable Bushings (Both bushings are the same diameter)
+ Some parts designed with a radius (greater tolerance for satisfactory fit between the part and blank)
+ Uses Parker style refill (vs the Cross style in a Slimline - Personal Preference only)
- I'm just not a fan of the style in general (Personal Preference)

Cigar style (Cigar or Big Ben)
- Two Tube Design (however both tubes have the same diameter)
+ Needs only One Drill (10mm)
+ Larger / Thicker (Heftier with more "meat" left on the tube vs the Slimline
- Some bushings diameters are very close in diameter to each other (Easier to make turning or assembly errors)
+ Some parts designed with a radius (greater tolerance for satisfactory fit between the part and the blank)
I recommend the "Improved Fit" bushings designed by Ed at Exotic Blanks to take advantage of the radius)
+ Uses Parker style refill (vs the Cross style in a Slimline - Personal Preference only)

Like many, I started out with a Slimline, because of the kit price. As others have already said, it isn't necessarily the easiest kit available, but it is one of the oldest pen styles in the craft. After the first two pens I ever made I started using the Slimline kit but a Comfort Center Band that I bought separately from Woodturningz. The Comfort center band uses a 0.420" inch diameter bushing instead of the standard Slimline center bushing (0.336). In addition to providing a little thicker pen they also have a little bit of detail to them that (in my opinion) makes the look a little nicer than the typical slimline center band. My second style was the Cigar.

2. Would you stick with one kit for awhile or pick a few different to learn the hobby with?

I would pick a couple that I personally liked the looks of in the catalog or that someone had made and posted on the IAP website. Since I am in it purely for the hobby and for the sense of learning, skill building, and self gratification, focusing on a single style has just not been my thing. There are a few styles though that have become my favorites like Cigar, Caballero Rollerball, Diamond Knurl Rollerball, Magnetic Graduate Rollerball, DuraClick, Premium Designer NT, among others).

3. What would be the Ballpoint, Rollerball, and Fountain pen models you would suggest for a new pen turner? (Think minimizing supper equipment, bushings, drill bits,...)
I guess I would suggest taking a look at some examples of my favorites for potential models, simply out of personal preference. They don't necessarily share any bits or bushings or anything, but they are just styles that I like. That being said though, I've probably made more Cigar styles and Diamond Knurl styles than the others.

4. Would you stick with wood or acrylic to learn on? (Both is a viable answer)

To learn on for wood I would suggest Walnut and Olive. Walnut because it is inexpensive and Olive because it can have nice contrasting grain patterns and it turns like butter! My favorite I think, however, is Cocobolo because I think it is a really cool and pretty rosewood. Bocote is also nice because of it's grain patterns. As for plastic, I would suggest blanks made from Alumilite resin. It seems to be the easiest resin to turn as it is one of the least brittle of the plastic blanks on the market -- kind of like the Olive wood, I think it turns like butter!

5. Any other advice you would give a new pen turner, that you wish you knew when you started?

I'll answer this with a couple of examples where I spent too much buying things in iterations on my learning curve journy.

When I started out I used inexpensive pen mills to square the blank to the tubes. My next iteration was a carbide tipped pen mill. Then I bought a jig from PSI with various sleeves for use on my disc sander. I later designed and built a jig of my own for use on the disc sander which is what I still use today. If I wouldn't have had a disc sander already, I would have bought the offset sanding jig tooling from Rick Herrell for use on my lathe. Here is a link to Rick's Custom Made Tools catalog. He is a little more than an hour North of you on US 52 in Pilot Mountain, NC. Rick is an outstanding machinist and fantastic supporter of everyone here on IAP.

Another evolution example, I started out using MicroMesh polishing pads and liquid final polishes. After being disappointed by "white dots" from polish residue in pinholes - really small, small, pinholes, I bought a lathe mounted Acrylic Pen Buffing System PSI so I could forgo the liquid polish -- no more white dots! Later, I bought a dedicated Rikon Low Speed Buffer so I didn't have to re-tool my lathe for buffing. (I use CA as a finish on most of my wood pens, so I use the same MicroMesh and buffing regimen for both wood and plastic blanks.

Well, I'm going to stop typing now.

I hope you enjoy the hobby as much as I do and if you have any questions, please feel free to post them or to send them to me directly on the PM system through the "start conversation" links.

Best Regards,
Dave

I have seriously considered buying this system right away from seeing the results that RJBWoodTurner has had with the system. Along those lines I've also considered the Beall polishing system as well, for use with all turning projects.

I've never seen this Rikon system you are talking about. I'll have to look into it, it might be worth considering. The dis-advantage of the other systems, can also be is big advantage as well. One day I'll be buying a larger lathe and my current Grizzly could become a dedicated polishing station, but I'll look at the Rikon.

I have seen the design for the in the lathe barrel sanding by Rick Herrell. I didn't realize that he was in NC, that's pretty cool. This is definetly something in considering in an effort to do a much on my lathe as possible. This does suffer from the same changing over the lathe as the buffing systems, but could be a fairly quick changeover.

 

[GFHWoodWerks]

With fountain pens, there are really only three types of people:

1. Those that don't care what kind of pen they have as long as it writes
2. Those that want one just to have one or because they're "cool"
3. Those that are obsessed with them -- they have their own personal preferences for nibs, inks, filling systems, etc. (which they can and will explain at length if given the chance), and they are willing to pay what others consider obscene amounts of money to get those preferences.

Just for turned pens in general, #1 above already is a large group, and it gets even larger with fountain pens which can be messy, unreliable, and difficult to use if not of good quality and well-tuned. These aren't your customers.

#2 is a really niche group for fountain pens. There's a "status" that comes with using a "fancy" fountain pen, and a few people will want one just to have one. They don't know enough about them to want a certain type of nib or filling system. They just know they're fancy, and they want in. Like the guy who wants a sports car but couldn't tell you the difference between a Mustang and a Camero (and ends up with a Sebring). These aren't your best customers. Because they don't know enough about the pens, any issues they face will be your fault, even if they're actually not. Like the guy who bought a $1 million Ferrari Enzo (basically a street legal race car) and complained that it had no power windows or AC.

#3 is a small group, and it takes (IMO) considerable luck and/or effort to build a client base for these. On top of the difficulty finding customers, there's considerable cost involved in the taps and dies needed to make pens to satisfy this client base, and a considerable learning curve for making the fully custom (sometimes called "kitless" or "bespoke") pens. And if that wasn't enough, these will be your most discerning clients when it comes to everything else: fit, finish, design, packaging, material quality/rarity, and so on. Much better to perfect your finishing process on a ball point kit you can do in an afternoon with the equipment you already have then to make all your rookie mistakes on expensive blanks for pens you spend days or weeks on.

I don't do fully custom, so I don't know if you need multiple tap/die sets to be able to do pens with different nib sizes from different manufacturers, but even one set will set you back. This is not to discourage you, I'm just saying it's maybe not the best place to start.

I've seen enough YouTube videos to confirm that bespoke fountain pens is a major investment. I bought my Grizzly lathe on sale for the price of one set of tap and die. By the way they need two of them to make the high end triple or quad start pens. So it will be awhile before I go that route. If I do try to measure a bespoke pen, I'll start with the much more economical single start tap and die. While this route won't generate the sales that the high end stuff, they are a more economical way to learn the process, determine if it's for me and such.