Foggy CA/BLO Finish

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Dulos

Dulos

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Faribault, MN 55021
I am continually running into this problem with my CA/BLO finish. I get little patches of foggy spots in my finish. I have tried every variable I can to eliminate the problem but it still persists. There are times when I think I got it right but a few minutes later the foggy patches emerge. I can't figure it out. Here is what I have tried so far...
- I tried CA only and letting it cure between coats
- I tried a new bottle of CA
- I tried different paper towels
- I tried various speeds from 500 to 5000
- I tried more BLO, less BLO
- I tried to really get the finish hot as it cured (friction), or keep it cool
- I tried it on a wide variety of woods
Every once in a while I will have one turn out, but there does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to the issue. I would appreciate any help you can give me.

Thanks for your help guys!

Dulos
 
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don't stop....when I put on CA, it starts out clear, turns "foggy" but keep rubbing and it will clear right up..or it should

also if it's one spot, make sure there is no water...sweat, any moisture on that spot
 
I put a coat of thin CA on first to seal the wood, then I switch to CA/BLO, CA/BLO, CA/BLO... as many coats as I want. CA first BLO second. I never put on BLO to wood first as that runs the risk of fogging the finish... undried oil under the CA.

If you plan to wet sand the finish make sure that you start by dipping the ends of the blanks in thin CA to seal the ends otherwise water from the wet sanding will wick into the wood under the CA and fog the finish.

Sometimes if you put on many layers and sand down thru some too much Ren Wax can afix itself to the edge of the layer and look like fog. Very annoying. Apply light and keep the heat down.

Hope that helps
:wink::wink::wink:
 
I've only had this happen a couple times... Always when it's really hot and humid. It might not even be the weather directly, it could be sweat on my hands getting on to the paper towel. Just something for you to consider.
 
One thing I do is clean with denatured alcohol. If the material is oily, like ebony or cocobolo, I use a very liberal amount of DA. Almost to the point of the paper towel dripping with DA. This seems to dry out the outer layer of the wood. Since I've started doing this along with skipping the accelerator, my fogging problems have gone away.

I probably just jinxed myself.:at-wits-end:
 
One thing I don't do is use denatured alcohol to clean blanks when applying CA glue for a finish. Water readily dissolves into alcohol (water in air such as high humidity). I use CA glue accelerator which I purchase in the bottles. I really like the aersol for using as an accelerator but use the bulk bottles for cleaning. The accelerator evaoprates quickly and causes no ill effects.

I'm not trying to be arguminitive but just sharing what I have experienced.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

One thing I do is clean with denatured alcohol.
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its_virgil said:
One thing I don't do is use denatured alcohol to clean blanks when applying CA glue for a finish. Water readily dissolves into alcohol (water in air such as high humidity). I use CA glue accelerator which I purchase in the bottles. I really like the aersol for using as an accelerator but use the bulk bottles for cleaning. The accelerator evaoprates quickly and causes no ill effects.

I'm not trying to be arguminitive but just sharing what I have experienced.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

One thing I do is clean with denatured alcohol.
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Ditto on not using DNA. I use to get those foggy finishes, but switched to using CA accelerator for cleaning the blank. I also stopped using BLO, but not because of the foggy finishes. I just found CA alone was all I needed to get a great finish. Another part of my CA finish process is to let the blanks gas out for 24 hours before doing the final sanding.
 
its_virgil said:
One thing I don't do is use denatured alcohol to clean blanks when applying CA glue for a finish. Water readily dissolves into alcohol (water in air such as high humidity). I use CA glue accelerator which I purchase in the bottles. I really like the aersol for using as an accelerator but use the bulk bottles for cleaning. The accelerator evaoprates quickly and causes no ill effects.

I'm not trying to be arguminitive but just sharing what I have experienced.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

One thing I do is clean with denatured alcohol.
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I didn't think you were being argumentative.:) I wasn't thinking water was the problem. For me it's been oily wood. And DA has helped. But I also rarely use accelerator anymore as that has been reported by some to be a problem with fogging. So if accelerator helps, I'll start using that to clean blanks since I have a pretty good supply that rarely gets used.
 
I actually had my very first "fogging" this weekend. I'm blaming it on the heat and humidity which were really high. I started making pens in the winter, so this is the first time I have experienced the H/H factor. Are there any adjustments people make in hot, humid weather?
 
It was really hot and humid last night and I had this happen again. I found I can minimize the chance of it happening by letting the CA (I use medium after the first 2 coats) dry slightly on the blank for a couple minutes before hitting it with the accelerator. After spraying accelerator and giving it a few seconds to set, I would stop the lathe and take a good look to see if I got any fogging. I got some once that was right on the surface and I was able to just wipe it off. Then on my last coat I may not have waited long enough ...I got a little that I needed to sand out because it wasn't right on the surface. It quickly sanded out.

It definitely helped to let the CA cure a little before accelerating but it wasn't perfect.
 
SCR0LL3R said:
It was really hot and humid last night and I had this happen again. I found I can minimize the chance of it happening by letting the CA (I use medium after the first 2 coats) dry slightly on the blank for a couple minutes before hitting it with the accelerator. After spraying accelerator and giving it a few seconds to set, I would stop the lathe and take a good look to see if I got any fogging. I got some once that was right on the surface and I was able to just wipe it off. Then on my last coat I may not have waited long enough ...I got a little that I needed to sand out because it wasn't right on the surface. It quickly sanded out.

It definitely helped to let the CA cure a little before accelerating but it wasn't perfect.
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Just a suggestion.....Don't spray the accelerator directly onto the blank. Even though the aresol type cans have a finer spray than the pump style bottles, you may be putting more on in one area than another. When the CA cures it leaves a white residue, which may be the stuff you are wiping off. Try spraying the accelerator onto a clean towel, then wiping this across the blank a few times. Repeat this step for every coat.
 
I have gone through times where this has happened. In my experience, it seems to come down to either freshness of the CA or moisture; either moisture in the wood or high humidity.

I use DNA on oily woods prior to CA/BLO and have had good luck.

IMO, accelerators can cause CA to cloud up, particularly thin CA. Aerosol is less likely to cause clouding.

Can you see why the CA finish process is always such an enigma? It seems to be different for everyone.
 
Everyone has their own technique

Everyone has their own technique, so here is mine. I use CA/BLO for all my wood pens because I like the feel of the pen better when writing with it over straight CA. I MM to 12000, clean the blank with compressed air, then apply Mylands sanding sealer using a folded paper towel. I leave the lathe on and after a few seconds, I use a dry piece of paper towel to burnish the sealer. Using another piece of paper towel, I put about two drops of BLO on and apply this to the wood and bushings, helps with sticking problems, then use a dry section to remove the excess. I then place a small puddle of medium CA onto the BLO section of paper towel and apply to the wood using a constant back and forth motion and moderate pressure. If it is really humid, you may get a slight fog form, but keep going and it will shine back up after a few seconds. After the CA dries, usually about 30 seconds or so, I use another clean piece of paper towel to repeat the process. I usually apply 4 coats of CA/BLO. I do not wet sand afterward, it is not needed. I do apply two coats of HUT friction polish to resist fingerprints. You will get a really nice shine but the wood will still look like wood and not plastic. I have been carrying the same pen for over a year and use it daily. The shine is still great. Just my two cents, hope it helps.
 
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i stopped using blo for this reason, i do two coats of thin ca then finish with medium. i also only use 2p10 ca. i don't any issues now.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I will try as many of them as possible. I have wondered if it was moisture, but I have had this problem both during the winter months as well as the summer months. Right now I am storing all of the blanks I am planning to turn in my air conditioned house for a week before I turn them. I have had this fogging problem on Black Walnut, Ebony, Paduke, Maple, Curly Oak and probably several others. I am going to take another look at my CA. I have had it around for about 3 months. I am going to try the DNA approach as well. I don't have any accelerator so I will have to wait with that idea but may give that a shot as well.

Dulos
 
Dulos said:
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I will try as many of them as possible. I have wondered if it was moisture, but I have had this problem both during the winter months as well as the summer months. Right now I am storing all of the blanks I am planning to turn in my air conditioned house for a week before I turn them. I have had this fogging problem on Black Walnut, Ebony, Paduke, Maple, Curly Oak and probably several others. I am going to take another look at my CA. I have had it around for about 3 months. I am going to try the DNA approach as well. I don't have any accelerator so I will have to wait with that idea but may give that a shot as well.

Dulos
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The LACK of accellerator may be it, too. I couldn't finish a pen to save the lives of 1,000 babies until i got the accellerator and then figured out how to use it. I use the stuff at Woodcraft. I think it's Stik-Fast.
 
I had two different accelerators and combined em into 1 bottle thinking they were the same... Not a good idea unless you want a white crackling finish.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=8456#

and

http://www.craftsmensupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=428

Two very different products... The latter being much easier to work with. The first one takes a long time to evaporate and gets all over my lathe whereas the 2nd one evaporates almost instantly.
 
Akula said:
don't stop....when I put on CA, it starts out clear, turns "foggy" but keep rubbing and it will clear right up..or it should

also if it's one spot, make sure there is no water...sweat, any moisture on that spot
Click to expand...

renowb said:
Humidity maybe?
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AKULA is right, but humidity is the enemy here. That is why we moved to the Mountains, no humidity.
So how do we fix this? I agree that taking more time while the lathe is running to clear the fog. Low speed is suppose to work but I don't follow that rule. You live in a sub tropic climate where humidity is an issue.
 
Okay guys, I did some experimenting. I kept my blanks in an air conditioned environment before turning. I turned two pens out of black walnut. The first one fogged up. About 50% of the finish got that cloudy look and there was no real rhyme or reason to where it fogged up. And the really funny part of it was that it looked good when I took it off the lathe and grew foggy in about 20 minutes. But the second pen came out pretty good. It wasn't as crystal clear as I would like but still pretty good. The only difference between the two was that I put friction wax on the first one.

I am thinking that friction wax somehow is part of this. Maybe it is the heat, maybe I am putting on the friction wax too soon and sealing in some chemical.

I am going to try a new bottle of CA glue next and we will see what happens next. I will let you know.

Dulos
 
I read all the posts and no one mentioned the possibility of the paper towel being the cause. When I first began using paper towels to apply CA, occasionally I would linger a little too long, or touch the paper towel to the blank before the previous coat was completely dry. The blank would pick up some of the fibers from the paper towel, which was not noticeable by me. Subsequent coats of CA would seal the fibers in nicely. It was not until I got to a certain point in the polishing process that the fibers became noticeable, but they did not look like fibers, it appeared like random cloudy patches. I'm much more careful with my CA application now. If I even think I may have paper towel contamination, I sand down that layer of CA. I no longer see that problem.
 
Again, thank you for all the tips! I really appreciate your input and ideas. I have been working this this issue some more. I bought a new bottle of CA glue and so far I do not have cloudy spots. So, that might have taken care of it.

However, my finish is not as clear as I would like. While it isn't exactly cloudy, it isn't crystal clear either. I do suspect that this issue is caused by humidity. Our weather in MN has been oppressively hot and humid. Most of the time I have avoided the shop, but when the heat and humidity break a bit I venture into the shop for about 30-45 minutes. Even then it is so hot I and humid I can only stand it for a while.
 
This thread (I know it's old, sorry) came up on a Google search. Is this the fogging problem you guys are talking about? It just started happening to me. I did switch to the BLO way of doing the CA, and that is probably the problem. Ironwood Blank.
Thoughts?
 

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modelcarsmag said:
This thread (I know it's old, sorry) came up on a Google search. Is this the fogging problem you guys are talking about? It just started happening to me. I did switch to the BLO way of doing the CA, and that is probably the problem. Ironwood Blank.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Welcome to the site. I did not go back through this thread and can not answer your original question. But from your photo it looks like you do not have enough CA on that blank at all. That wood you are using is an oily wood to begin with and I never liked using an oil such as blo with a wood that is already oily and trying to finish with a top coat of any kind. Too many bad things happen. I wipe the blank down with acetone and when that drys I apply 3 coats of thin CA to seal the wood. Then apply 4 to 5 coats of med CA and polish from there. I won't go into methods of applying, CA used and all that because everyone does things differently. But to the root of your problem, I would avoid the blo.
 
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