First pen, a couple questions

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InkyMike

InkyMike

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Jun 28, 2016
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Location
Maple Valley, WA
Hello everyone

I recently turned my first pen - I am making a couple for my daughters in their favorite colors for Christmas. Naturally I choose Inlace Acrylester as a first go as my oldest daughter loves purple and it was the best purple blank I could find locally. After a ton of videos and reading, I managed to complete it with only a handful of chip outs - most of which I was able to turn down. It's a twist ball point (kit PKMONT2S) and I have a couple of questions after this first go at it:

1. The top barrel assembly is easily turned further once the pen is open or retracted - this isn't a huge deal but it's easy to "un align" the grain. Is there a way to stiffen this up? Perhaps a couple lines of CA applied to the inside of the barrel and let dry then re insert the transmission?

2. The spacer ferrel in the middle is really loose -is it common to use some CA to attach it to the lower barrel?

(I turned this on a 13" Shop Fox lathe using just an Easy Wood Tools Finisher with a negative rake blade and a mandrel saver)

thanks!
Michael
 

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InkyMike said:
Hello everyone

I recently turned my first pen - I am making a couple for my daughters in their favorite colors for Christmas. Naturally I choose Inlace Acrylester as a first go as my oldest daughter loves purple and it was the best purple blank I could find locally. After a ton of videos and reading, I managed to complete it with only a handful of chip outs - most of which I was able to turn down. It's a twist ball point (kit PKMONT2S) and I have a couple of questions after this first go at it:

1. The top barrel assembly is easily turned further once the pen is open or retracted - this isn't a huge deal but it's easy to "un align" the grain. Is there a way to stiffen this up? Perhaps a couple lines of CA applied to the inside of the barrel and let dry then re insert the transmission?

2. The spacer ferrel in the middle is really loose -is it common to use some CA to attach it to the lower barrel?

(I turned this on a 13" Shop Fox lathe using just an Easy Wood Tools Finisher with a negative rake blade and a mandrel saver)

thanks!
Michael
Click to expand...
Michael…. Your tools sound good and from the look of your picture, it looks like you did a good job. However, it should go together snug enough that nothing should be loose. Disassembly is always an iffy proposition and a last resort. Wood or acrylic are best in my opinion and easier to turn without chipping. Polyester and acrilester are more difficult. I don't fool with them. The negative rake carbide is a great tool. A bit slower than standard carbide tools but it is essential for very hard woods and best for acrylic blanks. Take your time making pens. I can't stress that enough. With experience it goes faster but it's still advisable not to rush. I can't tell from the photo about the issues you mentioned but it seems to look pretty good. I'd have to see it in person to know for sure. You shouldn't have to use an adhesive anywhere except the gluing of the tube inside the blank. I prefer a 5 minute epoxy over CA for this and give it a few hours to cure. Hope this helps. Also when using resin blanks it's best to first paint the brass tube as resin sometimes has transparent areas. You don't want the brass to show through. I usually just use a black felt tip permanent marker.
 
Micheal:For first pen you have done well, Are you sure the the tramisIon is slipping in. the lower tube ore it's just then transmission. If it's twisting in the lower tube then after removing and cleaning up the inside of tube a little dab of CA should work. Now the center band if loose add a little CA to the upper tube.
More pen your make , thing's work out better, enjoy the pen rabbit hole.
 
Dieseldoc said:
Micheal:For first pen you have done well, Are you sure the the tramisIon is slipping in. the lower tube ore it's just then transmission. If it's twisting in the lower tube then after removing and cleaning up the inside of tube a little dab of CA should work. Now the center band if loose add a little CA to the upper tube.
More pen your make , thing's work out better, enjoy the pen rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
I don't think i explained it very well. It's actually the top tube that slips - the transmission is solid in the bottom tube. It's snug in the top tube, just not as snug as I anticipated as you can turn the pen to expose the tip, then keep turning without too much effort.

As for the center band - I think part of the issue is I turned the bottom barrel a hair too small - so the band has a little play. I will put a couple dabs of CA on the top tube.

Overall I'm really happy with how it turned out - I know my daughter will love it.

As for the rabbit hole...yeah....I've spent hours and hours reading, watching videos, shopping for tools and blanks (both window shopping, and pulling the trigger. ) I have a bunch of projects I want to complete for Christmas - that little lathe is going to get a workout :)
 
BULLWINKLE said:
Michael…. Your tools sound good and from the look of your picture, it looks like you did a good job. However, it should go together snug enough that nothing should be loose. Disassembly is always an iffy proposition and a last resort. Wood or acrylic are best in my opinion and easier to turn without chipping. Polyester and acrilester are more difficult. I don't fool with them. The negative rake carbide is a great tool. A bit slower than standard carbide tools but it is essential for very hard woods and best for acrylic blanks. Take your time making pens. I can't stress that enough. With experience it goes faster but it's still advisable not to rush. I can't tell from the photo about the issues you mentioned but it seems to look pretty good. I'd have to see it in person to know for sure. You shouldn't have to use an adhesive anywhere except the gluing of the tube inside the blank. I prefer a 5 minute epoxy over CA for this and give it a few hours to cure. Hope this helps. Also when using resin blanks it's best to first paint the brass tube as resin sometimes has transparent areas. You don't want the brass to show through. I usually just use a black felt tip permanent marker.
Click to expand...
Looking back I should have tried an easier material as a first go - but I did a ton of research after I bought the blank, and I did take my time. I'm sure the negative rake finisher helped save the day. I hadn't thought about clear spots - that's a good call - I'll keep an eye out for that
 
Not sure how much help I am going to be because I never made that kit. But I am sure someone who has will get on here and be a better help. In the mean time I pulled up the instruction sheet on PSI site and see that the center ring is really not attached to anything which is weird. So in this case I see no reason you could not glue it to the cap portion of the pen. Now this could get messy so do at your own risk. The question about keeping the cap from over spinning is no. You need to be able to take that cap off to replace refill. But the question is, is the cap spinning around the tranny or is the tranny spinning in the lower barrel tube. If the latter then you could use blue (red is permanent) locktite or CA to adhere it to the lower barrel. If spinning in the cap that is normal and not much can be done. You are using a good tool to turn that material because that is a chippy material. Not easy to work with.

The more pens you do you will find there are way better kits out there. Also you will learn from each one you do. I would keep some notes in a pad to help in the future because like me I walk away from pen turning for awhile and it takes some rebooting to get back up to speed and relearn things. Good luck.
 
jttheclockman said:
Not sure how much help I am going to be because I never made that kit. But I am sure someone who has will get on here and be a better help. In the mean time I pulled up the instruction sheet on PSI site and see that the center ring is really not attached to anything which is weird. So in this case I see no reason you could not glue it to the cap portion of the pen. Now this could get messy so do at your own risk. The question about keeping the cap from over spinning is no. You need to be able to take that cap off to replace refill. But the question is, is the cap spinning around the tranny or is the tranny spinning in the lower barrel tube. If the latter then you could use blue (red is permanent) locktite or CA to adhere it to the lower barrel. If spinning in the cap that is normal and not much can be done. You are using a good tool to turn that material because that is a chippy material. Not easy to work with.
Click to expand...
It's just the cap spinning around the tranny. I know it needs to be loose enough to remove for the refills, I just expected a little more tension, if that makes sense.

I also thought it was odd that the ring wasn't attached - if for no other reason that it could get lost. I'm going to use a toothpick to dab a couple drops of CA on it so it stays in place.
 
InkyMike said:
It's just the cap spinning around the tranny. I know it needs to be loose enough to remove for the refills, I just expected a little more tension, if that makes sense.

I also thought it was odd that the ring wasn't attached - if for no other reason that it could get lost. I'm going to use a toothpick to dab a couple drops of CA on it so it stays in place.
Click to expand...
It is odd unless it is suppose to be a contact fit on the lower barrel which would help hold it in place. As I said not sure because I never seen that kit in person. Yes on the tranny. You could try a new tranny. Some of those lower end kits the QC is not that good and bad items get through. You see the small little tabs on the side of the tranny is what only grabs the tube inside. Customers will get too strong and those type kits are notorious for spinning over time. That is why I never put any blank that has a pattern in it to match cap and barrel. But this also becomes a problem when doing rollerball kits and they have double or triple start threads. Many times people do not pay attention and when the screw cap on they do not align bottom and top. Nature of the industry. as they say.
 
"I usually just use a black felt tip permanent marker."
Good idea.
InkyMike, you will improve as you turn more pens. Most started from the ground floor. I was in the basement! Nice pen, BTW.
 
Brian G said:
Mike,

This PSI version of the Designer is advert
Click to expand...
Sorry, I fat fingered and submitted, and couldn't edit.

It's advertised as "no-tenon" other versions by other brands (e.g., Berea's Euro) require cutting a tenon for the center band, and gluing it to the upper barrel. A little more tedious, but I prefer that version.

You can stiffen a transmission by crimping outward the upper end of the transmission with a small pliers. It doesn't take much.
 
Brian G said:
Sorry, I fat fingered and submitted, and couldn't edit.

It's advertised as "no-tenon" other versions by other brands (e.g., Berea's Euro) require cutting a tenon for the center band, and gluing it to the upper barrel. A little more tedious, but I prefer that version.

You can stiffen a transmission by crimping outward the upper end of the transmission with a small pliers. It doesn't take much.
Click to expand...
I like the idea of the tenon for the center band - but as a first go I wanted to keep it simple. I have used a lather in YEARS (make that decades) I actually surprised myself how well this turned out.
 
Woodchipper said:
"I usually just use a black felt tip permanent marker."
Good idea.
InkyMike, you will improve as you turn more pens. Most started from the ground floor. I was in the basement! Nice pen, BTW.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I feel like I'm in the basement as well - but I've had some time on my hands to research and study, so hopefully I'm approaching it the right way. I figure now I've turned one of the more finicky materials, the rest should be east, relatively speaking.
 
I should clarify. Crimping the upper end of the transmission doesn't stiffen the transmission. It "mushrooms" the end so the upper barrel doesn't spin around the transmission.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. My responses are a bit rushed.
 
Brian G said:
I should clarify. Crimping the upper end of the transmission doesn't stiffen the transmission. It "mushrooms" the end so the upper barrel doesn't spin around the transmission.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. My responses are a bit rushed.
Click to expand...
I figured that's what you meant :)
 
Hi Michael, I have made probably a couple dozen of these and never had the issue you mentioned. I'm not exactly sure what is happening, could you possibly post a short video? I do like this pen as it actually has a relatively thicker amount of blank left when you turn it down to size which is nice for blanks that are not opaque. I also like it as it has a nice matching letter opener that you can give for a future birthday, etc.
 
David350 said:
Hi Michael, I have made probably a couple dozen of these and never had the issue you mentioned. I'm not exactly sure what is happening, could you possibly post a short video? I do like this pen as it actually has a relatively thicker amount of blank left when you turn it down to size which is nice for blanks that are not opaque. I also like it as it has a nice matching letter opener that you can give for a future birthday, etc.
Click to expand...
Hi David - see attached - I did end up using CA to attach the ring to the top barrel. I think as described above, the spinning in the top barrel is just par for the course.
 

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