Finish Shminish Diminished

[hesperaux]

Hi all,

I'm currently working on my third kitless pen. I learned a lot from my second one, including some things I noticed about the sanding/polishing process. I wanted to mention those things here and see if anyone has some advice on it.

When I sand, I've been trying out a few different methods. I have been using a cup of water and dipping each time. I've been starting with sandpaper at about 400 grit, moving into 1000. Then I switch to these sanding pads from Turner's Warehouse. They're not Micromesh but they are similar. Two-sided, 6 total grits, and they go up to like 20K or something. If I went to 1000 on the paper, I start with the second pad (1200) and skip the 600/800 pad.

Whether wet or dry sanding, I've noticed that sometimes my high grit paper or pad will end up with particles on it from previous grits, which ruins my finish. I get deep scratches that I think are coming in with my high grit passes. I've tried dunking and shaking into the water cup, and wiping the pad and the pen off between grits with my gloves, but I'm still noticing the scratches. On my last attempt, I was particularly careful to listen to the material while sanding and I could hear the particles. When I heard the noise I backed off, wiped off, rinsed, and it seemed to help. I haven't buffed this piece yet though to see if any scratches shine through.

But this is super annoying. I would really like to avoid walking over and re-filling my water cup for every grit I go through. Do you guys have any tricks for this? Would a larger basin of water help? It seems like some particles even float in the cup, so not sure it would be enough. Are there any good brushes I could use to scrape the pads/papers off before applying them? Etc.

And one other question: I started using a little brass in the 3rd pen. Just curious if it's a bad idea to sand and polish the brass and the resin at the same time. It seems to work pretty well, but I'm worried that brass particles will impact the surface of the plastic - is that something anyone has noticed?

Thanks

 

[leehljp]

Somewhat different but still similar enough. Look at the pen below and notice the brass and sliver solder dots. How do you sand without smearing. That was my problem and with some thought and some fine honing on my HSS scraper, I learned that a very sharp scraper with light touches, 2500-3000 rpm produced smooth finish on the wood and brass and solder dots without smearing. I wanted a CA finish so I built up a thick coat of about .007 or .008 and sanded down to about .005 thickness so that I would NOT sand through to the wood. BTW, After learning to use light touches with the scraper to smooth everything, I started using the scraper for light touches on the CA and produced a fine finish on the CA. With that done, I rarely used anything less than 8000 MM and often used buffing compound only to bring out the smooth shine.

30 Pieces of Silver

Elegant Beauty TI Gold Bloodwood, BOW, Holly core solder CA finish

www.penturners.org

It is not unusual for some skilled turners to not use sandpaper at all in some cases, but use a finely sharpened skew or scraper which prevent contamination.

 

[hooked]

But this is super annoying. I would really like to avoid walking over and re-filling my water cup for every grit I go through. Do you guys have any tricks for this? Would a larger basin of water help? It seems like some particles even float in the cup, so not sure it would be enough.

One suggestion would be to use something between 400 and 1000 grit. Add in a step or two. I would also suggest buffing after your polishing. I find that buffing removes many micro scratches from polishing. Maybe try a different sandpaper if you find it shedding a lot of grit.

In terms of your water, I use a multiple compartment container I got from Amazon and place it on the lathe while sanding. This is my sanding setup for resins and acrylics. Wet sand and add a small drop of dawn to each compartment with water. This also keeps my sandpaper grits separated so I don't accidentally use the wrong one. The Dawn helps prevent the sandpaper from getting clogged with the grit being removed.

 

[leehljp]

I re-read your post and saw this:

I get deep scratches that I think are coming in with my high grit passes.

Deep scratches come from coarser grits. Finer grits reveal the deep scratches caused from coarser grits. When using the coarser grits, you don't notice the deep scratches because they all look the same, but the finer grits reveal the deepest scratches of the coarser grit sanding.

 

[McKenzie Penworks]

My recommendation is to stop using the micromesh like stuff altogether. You don't need it. Assuming you do a good job turning, you probably don't need to go below a wet sand at 400. Believe it or not you can do a wet sanding schedule of 400/800/1200/1500 and then direct to a good polish. Our M3 polish is rebranded metal polish.... I won't say what it is but it's expensive, and it works. But, any good polish will work. You shouldn't need more than 2 steps though. Every pen I finish now is just 3-4 sanding steps followed by 2 step polishing with a microfiber cloth. I NEVER use paper towels when finishing and I do turn the lathe off and sand laterally as well.

Separate water, etc shouldn't really be needed... I wouldn't reuse the same stuff forever but the grit sinks to the bottom off the paper.

 

[howsitwork]

My recommendation is to stop using the micromesh like stuff altogether. You don't need it. Assuming you do a good job turning, you probably don't need to go below a wet sand at 400. Believe it or not you can do a wet sanding schedule of 400/800/1200/1500 and then direct to a good polish. Our M3 polish is rebranded metal polish.... I won't say what it is but it's expensive, and it works. But, any good polish will work. You shouldn't need more than 2 steps though. Every pen I finish now is just 3-4 sanding steps followed by 2 step polishing with a microfiber cloth. I NEVER use paper towels when finishing and I do turn the lathe off and sand laterally as well.

Separate water, etc shouldn't really be needed... I wouldn't reuse the same stuff forever but the grit sinks to the bottom off the paper.

interesting perspective . Thanks for that

 

[d_bondi]

Question for you David... are you sanding laterally (length of the piece) with the lathe off with each grit? This helps get rid of those scratches around the piece.

 

[hesperaux]

Hi all,
Thanks for the advice.

Question for you David... are you sanding laterally (length of the piece) with the lathe off with each grit? This helps get rid of those scratches around the piece.

Yep, I do this most of the time but once I get up to 1000 ish grit I don't do it for every grit.

The scratches at pretty low grit (deep).
I also noticed that the sanding pads looks to break up slightly at the edges and cut into the work, so I do think I'll stop using them or only use the ultra high grit pads.

I bought a package of Zona ish paper to try.

My recommendation is to stop using the micromesh like stuff altogether. You don't need it. Assuming you do a good job turning, you probably don't need to go below a wet sand at 400. Believe it or not you can do a wet sanding schedule of 400/800/1200/1500 and then direct to a good polish. Our M3 polish is rebranded metal polish.... I won't say what it is but it's expensive, and it works. But, any good polish will work. You shouldn't need more than 2 steps though. Every pen I finish now is just 3-4 sanding steps followed by 2 step polishing with a microfiber cloth. I NEVER use paper towels when finishing and I do turn the lathe off and sand laterally as well.

Separate water, etc shouldn't really be needed... I wouldn't reuse the same stuff forever but the grit sinks to the bottom off the paper.

I have been starting at 400 but because I am still perfecting my turning technique, I do have to use lower grits or a file to cleanup the shape. As I get better I hope to improve on this and cut that out.

Not using paper towel is a good tip. I have been lazy and using it and I definitely notice the negative effects. It tends to come out when buffing but yeah. I will switch to cotton or micro fiber for wiping off between grits.

I finished my third pen. I'll post it in the other forum area. I turned some brass parts this time and I am pretty happy with it. There's an accidental hole in the finial but I'm going up just plug it with glue later.

One suggestion would be to use something between 400 and 1000 grit. Add in a step or two. I would also suggest buffing after your polishing. I find that buffing removes many micro scratches from polishing. Maybe try a different sandpaper if you find it shedding a lot of grit.

In terms of your water, I use a multiple compartment container I got from Amazon and place it on the lathe while sanding. This is my sanding setup for resins and acrylics. Wet sand and add a small drop of dawn to each compartment with water. This also keeps my sandpaper grits separated so I don't accidentally use the wrong one. The Dawn helps prevent the sandpaper from getting clogged with the grit

I really like this idea. I am gonna give this a try until I get good enough to avoid as much of the sanding! I hadn't even thought to use multiple water compartments haha. It seems so obvious now.